Banjo Bolt Filter HELL

[Sonicfrog]

So I bought my 2009 Fozzy Turbo just over a week ago. I was driving home from the central California coast on Tuesday when I suddenly lost all turbo boost and the warning lights came on. When I got it towed home (AAA is awesome!!!!) I pulled the codes....

P-0011 and P-0021.

These are sometimes called "the codes of death" because they indicate oil starvation to the AVCS valve system, and though the turbo is not connected directly to that system, if that gets starved for oil, a lot of times the turbo is starved for oil too. When a turbo doesn't have the proper amount of oil, they  will easily die.

When I learned of this my heart sank. Did I just blow up a car I bought a week ago????

I pulled the exhaust off the turbo and THANK GOD it's in pretty good shape.



The usual culprit that causes the oil starvation are these tiny screens

They are embedded in hollow banjo bolts that carry either oil or water through the engine. Note that the most common application of banjo bolts don't have a screen in them.

 

The bad thing is, the three banjo bolts with screens on my Subie are in the worst possible locations. In order to repair this, replace them or take them out (there is debate over what is the proper course) I have to basically take apart the front and top of the engine... Pull the timing belt, the cams, the timing cover front and back, the intake manifold and turbo...

Tons of work.

But, the good news. I got one of the screens out. It was clogged, but not horribly so. And  there was little sign of any metal fragments or shavings. The turbo is still good. So i think the codes saved me a much worse fate that i can't afford... Buying a new engine.

PS. I'm choosing to leave the screens out. The newer Subie turbos don't have them. They do recommend maintaining a strict 3000 mile oil change regiment. I'm gonna do that. I'm also gonna have the oil flushed in the next couple of weeks.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Sonicfrog

[Ejay]

Glad you got them out before any trouble. I bought my LGT with a rebuilt engine and a spankin' new OEM turbo due to a starved turbo.

It is possible to remove the driver side bolt without removing the timing components and covers. It requires some creative methods and you have to modify the bolt (remove material) to get it back in.

If you got the code, I would remove those other 2 screens. You may also want to clean and blow the oil lines out, as well as blast the oil control valve itself to get any gunk out.

[Numbchux]

Here's my 2 cents. Those screens saved you once (without them, the debris you found would have likely made it to your turbo, and if left unchecked even longer, debris from your failing turbo will be introduced into your engine...). Keep them in place, be extremely vigilant with your oil changes, and you won't have an issue.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure all turbo AVCS EJ Subarus have those. The later FA20 cars do not, but are a very different system.

[GeneralDisorder]

4 hours ago, Numbchux said:

Also, I'm pretty sure all turbo AVCS EJ Subarus have those. The later FA20 cars do not, but are a very different system.

No. They were removed in about 2008 or 2009. They never existed on EJ22T's either. The whole point of them was to trap bits of sealant or casting flash, etc from manufacture and prevent crib deaths of a small percentage of turbos. After the initial break in of the engine they serve no purpose at all and are a huge detriment to longevity not to mention difficult to service. We remove 100% of these and never use banjos with filters on our high performance engine builds. Never have had a single failure. If you must have an oil filter for the turbo then you need to swap to braided -3AN lines and install an inline filter that's serviceable. We have done that but we have also found it's pretty much unnecessary. The EJ22T's are well known for being very long term reliable with respect to the turbos and they never came with filter nor do 10+ models. Subaru realized it was a terrible idea. 

GD 

Edited November 14, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[Ejay]

Good info GD thanks

[Numbchux]

13 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

No. They were removed in about 2008 or 2009. They never existed on EJ22T's either.

You'll notice I said AVCS turbo EJs, that does not include 22ts or 205s. And they definitely carried over well past 2009:

https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2011_WRX-25L-TURBO-5MT-4WD-SEDAN/UNION-SCREW-AND-FILTER-ASSEMBLY/49226885/14445AA090.html

 

[GeneralDisorder]

They have them for the AVCS solenoids, yes but they are not used for the turbo oil supply. On the years I mentioned they have three - one for each AVCS supply, and one for the turbo. After that they eliminated the one for the turbo supply. The AVCS ones can fail or clog but it causes no real collateral damage. 

GD

[Numbchux]

Fair enough, I was under the impression those would still affect turbo oil supply.

 

Either way, I've seen many of those with high miles on them as long as oil changes haven't been neglected.

[Sonicfrog]

GD... I missed you man!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

I still miss Murphy, the $500 87 Turbo Wagon. But this Forester is THE BOMB!!!!!!... When it's running. :-)

I had been waffling about keeping the screens or taking them out. It seems that leaving them only leads to more trouble, especially the risk of starving the turbo of oil. I decided I'd rather have a bit of debris flow to the turbo rather than starve it of oil. I have removed the drivers side screen, but I'm at a point where i could put a new one in without too much effort. 

But yeah. Why did they put all of these in spots that are so difficult to get to????

PS. I just changed my timing belt this last weekend. If I was off a tooth on one cam. Could that trigger the codes? 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Sonicfrog

[1 Lucky Texan]

if I was able to find this on my turbo, would I just need a new washer after I remove the screen?

I have literally never removed a banjo bolt - all my old-car experience was before they became common I guess.

Edited November 16, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan

[GeneralDisorder]

You have never done a brake caliper? Brake lines have banjo bolts going way back.... 

But yeah you need new copper sealing washers jus like a brake line. You pull the banjo bolt, use a pick to pull out the filter, clean with some evaporating degreaser and reinstall. 

GD

[Rampage]

The 4EAT uses banjo bolts for the cooling lines and some power steering pumps use a banjo bolt on the pressure line.

[1 Lucky Texan]

when I was younger, I either never had a seized piston, or maybe once I paid someone to do that work on an Rambler??? not sure.

thanx - are these washers all common sizes then and available over the parts counter? You have said in the past that I was basically driving a ticking time bomb and, pulling that screen for the turbo line, at least(I might skip the valve system ones), seems do-able. what size washer or do I pull it and take it to the parts store to match?

Edited November 16, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan

[Sonicfrog]

Update: I got the second easiest filter out, the one under the turbo air intake. It too had barely anything in it. So I'm putting that back together. Now I have the passenger side to do and I have no idea how I'm gonna get to that one. I can't even see it.

Of course, as is the way things have been going on this, I broke a hose barb on the coolant reserve tank. And of course the parts dept is closed until Monday.

[GLCraig]

Looks like there's some debate on how many filters and where they are located.  The FSM for my 2009 EJ257 shows two of those filters.  One filter is on the top of the right head, supplying both the turbo and the AVCS for that side of the engine.  The other filter is on the front of the left head.  Your Forester maybe different since it has the EJ255.  

Two summers ago, I had the intake off of mine, so I inspected the filter on the right head.  Looks pretty clean considering it had about 155K at that time.  Remember to change your oil kids,  

[Sonicfrog]

Mine indeed only had two. Of course, in the process of replacing the banjo screw I broke it. I got stuck in the feed tube which I had to cut off to get out. Time to replace with a braided hose.

[Sonicfrog]

New Update: I ran into yet another problem. My plan was to replace that with a braided oil line. That idea sounded great, but no one seemed to make one that would fit the specific configuration of the 2009 Forester, one that attaches to the top of the head.

But I did find there is a work-around. There is a separate oil port on the passenger side head, but on the 09 they have that port plugged. If you move the plug from the side to the top, then the configuration is the same as the WRX... And they make plenty of oil line kits for that.

Here's a link that showed me this nice trick.

https://www.iagperformance.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/instructions/IAG/IAG-ENG-2070/IAG AVCS and Turbo Oil Feed Line IAG-ENG-2070 v3.pdf

[Sonicfrog]

PS. The previous owner kept really good records of the maintenance done to the car. I looked it over and found that the oil that was used and the oil filter were not the recommended type. The oil is 5-30, but it's not synth, and the filter is a cheap Penzoil one. Before the codes were triggered,  I was pushing the car hard up a mountain pass. given that the screens were not clogged, I now suspect the codes were triggered because it has the wrong oil and filter. 

[GeneralDisorder]

Wrong filter will not cause the codes. Possibly dirty oil would. Not just being non-synthetic though. The oil would have to be really poor and very dirty though..... We run 5w40 as a rule in all turbo engines and all our race motors get 15w50 and we NEVER get AVCS codes. 

We always reroute the turbo oil feed to the block main gallery behind the manifold. 

GD

[Sonicfrog]

OK. The oil doesn't look bad at all. But as is the case when I work on my cars, I'm going to change it as soon as I'm done anyway.

[GeneralDisorder]

Run a 5w40 synthetic in it. 30 is too thin for longevity and hard driving. We use 5w40 Amsoil synthetic in all Subaru's that aren't under warranty. Anything over 400 crank HP we run 15w50. 

GD

Edited November 18, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[Sonicfrog]

Will do. Any brand you like? A lot of peeps like Rotella... Which sounds more like a candy than an oil.

Note: I'm getting a 4 pack of Subaru oil filters. That should cover my car and the two other Subies at my household.

[GeneralDisorder]

We pour Amsoil at my shop. But there are also other good options. Rotella isn't bad, but it is not specifically designed for performance gas engines. 

Subaru filters are pretty aweful. Made by Honeywell the parent company of Fram.... we prefer the WIX filters as the have a correct pressure relief valve that is up-front before the elemant. 

Amsoil filters are great too. Just expensive.

Edited November 19, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[Sonicfrog]

So I got the car up and running Thursday night..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WW4bsptFDf8gLt419

Bummer. Turbos are not supposed to sound like this. I so want to drive the car I bought three weeks ago.  I have a rebuild kit coming today. Hopefully this will be the last of the wrenching I will need to do for a while.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Sonicfrog

[GeneralDisorder]

"rebuild kit" ? What exactly are you going to attempt here? 

What you need is a CHRA. Melett in the UK makes the one's we use. 

GD