t0rtur3d4ng31 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Ok... I'm new. I don't know much about much, I have a lot to learn, and I broke my car trying to fix it. It's time to ask for help. My name is Katherine, I have a 2000 Subaru Outback with an EJ251AXAWL engine and a TZ1A4ZCABA 4-speed auto transmission. My goal is to put a naturally aspirated EJ207 in my car with a 5-speed manual transmission, and to replace the Brakes, Suspension Intake and Exhaust. I want to say that this Outback has a sentimentality to it, this is to say that starting with a "better subaru" is not an option, this car will be the one that has these modifications, no other, and i won't sell it or scrap it. That said I do desire honest feedback on how and what to do to her. Currently my Outback has a list of problems. 1- the transmission slips and needs replaced, this is what prompted this post and will be the first priority on my list of modifications and repairs. 2- both tie rod ends need replaced as well as the cv axles, this prompted my desire to replace the entire suspension. 3- the air conditioning doesn't work, i replaced o-rings but have not yet recharged the system so i don't yet know it the compressor is bad or the lines. 4- there is body rust on both rear fenders, worse on the passenger side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0rtur3d4ng31 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 So currently I'm working to fix the slipping transmission. Today I did an ATF change on a transmission with 277k miles on it. I know, stupid move. A buddy suggested replacing the external transmission filter and attempting to refill the ATF. If this doesn't work, or too much material is removed in the process I plan to preform a manual swap onto the existing EJ251. I do not know if attempting to change the filter is worthwhile, and i do not know what 5-speed transmission will mount properly on the EJ251. I know i'll need the transmission, drivelines, gearbox and pedals, but i don't know what else i need to perform this swap. Any input? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 first off, welcome aboard. Another female, Yay! =) 2ndly.. changing from an auto to a manual is a LOT harder than you think it is. you would not only need the transmission itself, but flywheel, pedal assembly, some have hydraulic clutch actuators, so you would need that, interior bits - gear shifter, trim, etc, not to mention the ECU in your car is set up for an auto, not a manual, so it would complain (this can supposedly be addressed, but I personally do not know how.) You would be further ahead either just swapping in another auto, or buying a car that is originally a manual. Brakes, tie rod ends, and other suspension related bits are not terribly difficult. why do you want to go to a smaller engine? is there something specific wrong with the 251? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0rtur3d4ng31 Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, heartless said: first off, welcome aboard. Another female, Yay! =) 2ndly.. changing from an auto to a manual is a LOT harder than you think it is. you would not only need the transmission itself, but flywheel, pedal assembly, some have hydraulic clutch actuators, so you would need that, interior bits - gear shifter, trim, etc, not to mention the ECU in your car is set up for an auto, not a manual, so it would complain (this can supposedly be addressed, but I personally do not know how.) You would be further ahead either just swapping in another auto, or buying a car that is originally a manual. Brakes, tie rod ends, and other suspension related bits are not terribly difficult. why do you want to go to a smaller engine? is there something specific wrong with the 251? nothing in particular, I'm not well versed enough in the specs to know off the top of my head but i read someplace that the 207 made more hp, if i'm wrong i'm fine with looking at other engines, i mainly want to maximize hp and minimize weight. as far as the transmission i was initially planning on buying a manual parts car for all the specifics but the transmission slip problem has accelerated the urgency of transmission work, should try to get my current transmission rebuilt? buy a new one? idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Welcome. On the A/C, do you know the system must be pumped to a vacuum before charging? If you go shopping for a used automatic the first 7 digits in the number you posted must match. The last 3 don't matter. Try www.carpart.com and see if there is a yard close to you. Or www.hollanderparts.com . I have found that some of the yards forget to remove items when they are sold, so it is a good idea to call them. Phone numbers are listed. And most will have a core charge to get the old one back. Get the Factory Service Manual here http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/ Edited January 7, 2020 by Rampage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) who's doing the work? You might post in a new thread asking for a soob-friendly shop near you. Some folks have had very good luck with doing 3 drain/fill/drive-a-little procedures on their old automatics - perhaps with a bottle of Trans-X on the final fill. (have to mention , trans fluid is checked while idling, the only fluid you check that way) it's my understanding the 207 is a real b@st@rd engine, low-ish power and difficult to source parts for. thinking of a different engine I guess... Edited January 9, 2020 by 1 Lucky Texan wrong 2 litre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0rtur3d4ng31 Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 I'm doing the work mostly, my previously mentioned buddy and my auto tech teacher are helping and consulting, my aunt is a soob mechanic, so i ask her specific questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 a decent, low mileage used tranny would be more cost effective than trying to swap to a manual. and yeah, car-part.com would be the place to start looking. Make sure you get the details of any guarantee/warranty - some require a certified shop to do the work or they wont honor it. nothing really wrong with the 251 engine if it has been properly maintained. my 2002 Forester (also an auto) has that engine, and it has plenty of get-up-&-go when I ask for it. putting an EJ20 in an outback you would not really gain anything due to the weight of the car - it would feel underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 EJ207 is the WRX sti engine. Very strong engine from what I’ve read. Good for future mods if the stock tune isn’t enough With your intended goals with the manual and the EJ207, you’d be doing well to have this completed for $15,000 I reckon. The 207 isn’t cheap - it’s one of the most sought after performance engines in the Subaru world. You would be best off buying a damaged WRX or one that’s not on the road etc to drop into your Outback. There will be wiring to do, you’ll need the WRX security gear to make the loom work. NA and turbo gearboxes are different - and they use a different clutch system from each other too. You don’t want to be trying to put a turbo gearbox in with the NA clutch arrangement or vice versa. Engine wise from the clutch back it doesn’t matter if you have the NA or the turbo engine powering the gearbox, either will bolt up. Find a suitable donor that still has a serviceable drivetrain - this will have everything you need except the manual interior trims for the outback and possibly the tailshaft, gear selectors and manual gearbox crossmember which all *could* be outback specific. Good luck with finding a “cheap” donor vehicle. They get parted out for a reason. Now wait for GD to jump on with the “don’t do it” message! As for your current transmission situation, replace with a known good unit and look after it. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Huge amount of work, and will cost a small fortune. But all doable. Mechanically, pretty straightforward. All bolt-in with the right combination of parts. You'll be tearing the car down basically to a shell, but with some organization and patience, just a matter of bolting the new parts in place. Obviously the engine and transmission have to come out, but the entire dash, as well. It will be a big paperweight for months, possibly years. EJ207 is a turbo engine, considered one of, if not the, stoutest (Vermont Sportscar uses only EJ207s in the Subaru Rally Team USA cars). The smaller displacement means they rely more on the turbo for power, which means less power in the lower rpms. But a tune and turbo sizing will help get the results you want. It was never available in the USA, we got the larger EJ257 here. The 207 was made for ~20 years (I think it was exactly 1999-2019), so even with that specific engine code, there are a myriad of details that surround the swap. The easiest and cheapest way for a novice to do this job, is to get a complete donor (half cut from Japan), so you have all the parts that you know all work together. Sometime around 2005, these cars would have gotten an immobilizer, which will make it considerably more difficult to get the stock ECU to run it (assuming you use the stock ECU, a standalone would yield some better results, but bigger hurtles to get there). EJ207s were only in Imprezas, which never got the rear suspension that's in your Outback, brakes will bolt right up to the Outback suspension, axles get a little ugly if you want to use an r180 rear diff instead of the standard r160, but still doable. The vast majority of EJ207s will come with a 6-speed transmission, which is a much better transmission but will add several thousand dollars to the purchase price. I think all 207s were mated with the r180 rear diff. This is all assuming you stick with the EJ207. Almost any engine made by Subaru in the last 30 years can be used in there with the right combination of parts. Turbo 4 cylinders, as well as several 6-cylinders. These projects have been done hundreds of times in BE/BH Outbacks, and probably tens-of-thousands of times in other Subarus. Anything turbo will require a turbo engine crossmember. None of these options will effect your tie rod ends. If you need them, replace them. Depending on the condition of your CV axles and timeline for this project, I might not wait on those. The manual swap isn't too bad, but if you're serious about the engine swap, you'll save yourself a lot of headache to swap the manual pedal box in when the dash is out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Buy an 05-07 Outback XT. Turbo swap is way too much work on a 2000 model. You will be looking at spending $10k easily. GD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said: Buy an 05-07 Outback XT. Turbo swap is way too much work on a 2000 model. You will be looking at spending $10k easily. GD Recommending your least favorite late-model Subaru, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said: Buy an 05-07 Outback XT. Turbo swap is way too much work on a 2000 model. You will be looking at spending $10k easily. GD GD, came through with “the goods”! You should read up on some build threads from those that have done this conversion before. I don’t recall many from this site but I know of one or two on subyclub (Oz site). Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 hours ago, carfreak85 said: Recommending your least favorite late-model Subaru, eh? Granted, they suck, but you can get one with a blown turbo/engine/etc for next to nothing and just rebuild it. Or go through and actually do the necessary upgrades to a good running example. Still a lot less work than a proper swap. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 6 speed trans and I guess rear diff from a spec B...+ built/tuned WRX or Forester XT engine from a wreck could be a really good swap. Edited January 9, 2020 by 1 Lucky Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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