Engine front re-seal

[wysubey]

Car broke down before Christmas. Left timing belt tensioner threw its bearings and the belt skipped a few teeth. I ignored the squeaking too long. Previous TB replacement ~30k ago likely didn't replace tensioners. So, here I go on the re-seal odyssey. I have new cam & crank seals, idler sprocket, tensioners, timing belts, oil pump seals & water pump. Anyhow, there are a couple issues I want some feedback on.

On the R side front of the engine by cylinder 1, there is some orange gunk at the head gasket joint. Any ideas what that is? No signs of HG failure from the rad cap or oil.

The failed tensioner rubbed against the belt cover and wore it through. About 1" crescent. Should I worry about finding another cover? Duck tape to the rescue? Also, the R inner cover is a bit warped behind the cam sprocket and is rubbing slightly.

Any other trouble areas to look at while I'm in there? Crossing my fingers the oil pump is OK.

[Mack Truck]

i am just finishing an overhead rebuild on my EA-82.  Did its 20 min breaking run last night, I have stage 1 cams and rebuilt slightly shaved heads.   the orange "junk"  may be the copper gasket sealer sometimes used on head gaskets,

The timing belt covers:  I'm running open belts as others have said they are really hard to find replacements for, plus when belts need replacing and tensioniers need changing you can do it without removing the front pulley and all that.  so  you may want to think about running with no timing belt covers.  (i had to re-route and lengthen the oil pressure sending unit wire and run it along the bottom wiring loom under the radiator as i will get cought up in the open belts if u run it down over the front as it is stock.)

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Mack Truck

[DaveT]

If you don't have coolant dissappearing, I wouldn't touch the headgaskets.   They can develop leaks from coolant to the outside.   But you will have slow coolant loss for a long time before you have to deal with it, as long as you check the level and air in the upper hose to prevent running it when low.

The idler bearings are usually good for about 50k miles, just like the belts.

With the new seals - include the o rings behind the small pieces that the cam shaft seals press into.  The shaft seal on the oil pump.   

After much debating and reading what others were doing re timing belt covers, I  stopped using them.  Years ago.  I have had fewer problems since.  One time, I even could hear the beginning of an idler bearing failure before it got bad enough to snap the belt.

[idosubaru]

10 hours ago, wysubey said:

Car broke down before Christmas. Left timing belt tensioner threw its bearings and the belt skipped a few teeth. I ignored the squeaking too long. Previous TB replacement ~30k ago likely didn't replace tensioners. So, here I go on the re-seal odyssey. I have new cam & crank seals, idler sprocket, tensioners, timing belts, oil pump seals & water pump. Anyhow, there are a couple issues I want some feedback on.

On the R side front of the engine by cylinder 1, there is some orange gunk at the head gasket joint. Any ideas what that is? No signs of HG failure from the rad cap or oil.

The failed tensioner rubbed against the belt cover and wore it through. About 1" crescent. Should I worry about finding another cover? Duck tape to the rescue? Also, the R inner cover is a bit warped behind the cam sprocket and is rubbing slightly.

Any other trouble areas to look at while I'm in there? Crossing my fingers the oil pump is OK.

ignore the gunk.  took years to build up, no symptoms, who knows what it is.  nonissue. 

covers - fill the crack with epoxy or sealant.   if one is rubbing then remedy it or replace it.  you could file, drill, or cut the area that's rubbing out.  if you're about to ditch it and get another one anyway - then you could try to locally heat it up and see if it becomes locally malleable...but not too much as you don't want to warp the rest of it.  again - last ditch effort if you're about to throw it away anyway. 

replace the cam cap orings - they are for sure to be brittle and crack when you remove them.  they always do by now if they've never been replaced which is common.

[carfreak85]

What brand and part number of tensioners do you folks prefer now that the supply of OEM tensioners has dried up?

@GeneralDisorder

Edited January 9, 2020 by carfreak85

[idosubaru]

6 hours ago, carfreak85 said:

What brand of tensioners do you folks prefer now that the supply of OEM tensioners has dried up?

1. For my XT6’s I use the OEM pulleys and inject grease into them with a needle fitting on the grease gun. Lack of grease is the only failure mode. So give em new grease. 
 

2. if I was doing an EA82 I’d buy whatever looks reasonable, check them annually and replace every 50k. 
 

3. I think the EA82 pulleys all have common bearings - just install new bearings or have a shop (bearing shop, machine shop or some mechanics will do it) for you. 

[DaveT]

Back when you could only get them from Subaru,  for $90 each, I made replaceable bearing tensioners.  The originals, the bearing was welded to the stud / spacer .  So now I just replace  the bearings with high quality contact seal bearings.  About $8 each back then.  I can look up the sizes later.

[wysubey]

No covers it is! Just finished cleaning the oil pump, waiting on my caliper to get here to check the rotor dimensions. New shaft seal is in, as well as crankshaft seal. headed to town for fresh camshaft seal carrier O rings. Whats the torque spec for oil pump sprocket? Haynes book doesn't say. Has anyone used oil compatible RTV to backup mickey mouse gasket?

[DaveT]

If the mickey mouse gasket is from a dealer, it should be viton, or some other beetle than typical oring material.  Don't mess with that.  If there is a joint in the casting that it crosses, and there is a dip or something not smooth, a tiny dot of rtv is ok .  The last time I got the cam orings from a dealer, they were similar better than typical oring material also.  They don't get hard.

[carfreak85]

17 hours ago, idosubaru said:

1. For my XT6’s I use the OEM pulleys and inject grease into them with a needle fitting on the grease gun. Lack of grease is the only failure mode. So give em new grease. 
 

2. if I was doing an EA82 I’d buy whatever looks reasonable, check them annually and replace every 50k. 
 

3. I think the EA82 pulleys all have common bearings - just install new bearings or have a shop (bearing shop, machine shop or some mechanics will do it) for you. 

Those were the scenarios I was running through my head.  Not too keen on regreasing, but pressing a new bearing on would be amenable.

16 hours ago, DaveT said:

Back when you could only get them from Subaru,  for $90 each, I made replaceable bearing tensioners.  The originals, the bearing was welded to the stud / spacer .  So now I just replace  the bearings with high quality contact seal bearings.  About $8 each back then.  I can look up the sizes later.

Yeah, if you've got part numbers that would be great!

[MWLoyale]

Ive been buying itm engine components from rockauto. It comes in at a good price and the pulley feels nice in the hands. Seems like a good product, but dont hold me to that (at least til the old girl runs proper ha then ill know for sure). And omni for the belt, nice rubber they have.

[DaveT]

The idler bearing is a 6203, the tensioners are 6301.  

NTN number 6301 LLBC3/5C

NSK number 6203DDUC3

the letters after the 4 digit size are how you get contact seals.  You don't want the regular seals, or shields, which are what you get with unspecific description parts.

[wysubey]

Thanks all, successful operation here. Seems to have a bit less power than I remember, but it's idling smoother. I adjusted the spark timing to 20 degrees. How much pressure do you guys put on the tensioners? Just spring pressure and tighten the bolts, or do you apply hand pressure as well? Also, since the work, cold starts are not going until I disconnect and reconnect the battery. It clicks, but no crank. Warm re-starts are fine.

[idosubaru]

Double check timing marks make sure they're dead on for both sides.  That make a much larger difference than tensioning the tensioner pulleys, so if it's that bad i'd expect that. 

If it's not idling right then check the throttle plate for sticking and the idle control valve for operation or clogging.  It's been awhile since I looked at the EA's but the ER's by this age frequently need replaced or cleaned.  They gum up and stick and need cleaned or just fail with age. 

Get the FSM and follow the tensioner procedures.  I attached one side shown here.  Put tension on the cam sprocket as you tighten the tensioner pulley bolts.  Do both sides. 
I don't think this should be causing low power and/or idling issues though.  I've installed them without tensioning the cam's and they run just fine...but there's more things at play here so who knows.

[DaveT]

Your belts are too loose, but that won't cause the running problems.  Loose belts are at more risk to skip timing.  I do is correct, read and follow the FSM procedure for setting the tension.   I add the step of a 5 second run and then reset tension.  The belts inevitably move to the location they want to run, and end up loose.

You have to connect the green test connectors before setting or checking the timing.  If you don't,  the ECU will be adjusting the timing and you don't end up with the proper position / angle.

[DaveT]

The intermittent click no crank is almost always a high resistance connection in the wiring to the starter solenoid.   Easiest fix is to add a relay.

One other possible cause is that one of the contacts in the starter solenoid has eroded down to where it barely touches when the solenoid pulls in.

[wysubey]

Been running good for a couple weeks now. Starts right up every time, and I re-tensioned the belts. Troubling development now though. When I took apart the oil pump, the inner ring that keeps the belt centered on pump sprocket was off. I put it back on and re-punched the sprocket to hold it tighter. Well... it didn't hold and now the belt is running too close to the block. It's completely on all sprockets besides the oil pump. The inner edge is running maybe 1-2mm off that sprocket. Not rubbing on anything, but it does catch the guard ring a bit. There's a tiny bit of fraying from that. Anyone have a source for OP sprocket? Or should I try to weld that ring on the sprocket? Really glad I kept the covers off to keep an eye on this! I think the low power is due to exhaust leak making the engine run rich at low RPMs.

[DaveT]

Try flipping the timing belt over.  It might track differently.  The only way I know of to find another pulley is to find one on an engine.

I am not sure if welding is the best way to go , as the solid part of the pulley doesn't seem like a solid cut piece of steel.  Possibly brazing would work.

 

 

 

[idosubaru]

Get a used pulley or fix it   

I’ve seen that happen before as well but always had extra pulleys so it’s a no issue.  Seems like there has to be a way to reattach that ring. I’d try to weld it.  All it would need is three tacks, it’s a light duty application, don’t run a full bead.

if you’re uncomfortable with that or uncertain of the materials like Dave said, ask a local machine shop. They should be able to figure it out real quick.