I'm rebuilding a ej22

[Zip Tie]

I know this is heresy to most of you here, but it's happening. No, I can't just go find one for under $300. I live in rural northern California and this one took almost a year of looking to buy locally.

I got it already pulled from "a good running car" from the junkyard. The cars odometer read 268000. They didn't have compression numbers so I checked them (all 4 around 100). So I squirted a little oil in the cylinders and the numbers went up to around 120-130. I pulled the heads and there is carbon build up on the valves and pistons (although the pistons are clean in places on the edges).

So, what I'm wanting to know is what's a good rebuild kit and any tips or tricks to make this engine come back to nearly new again.

[nvu]

If you're in this far already, might as well take off the pistons and replace the rings.  You don't have to split the block for this.  I've used NPR rings in the past since they sell pregapped sets.  But seems like prices for EJ22 rings are insane now, 200-400 for a set of rings?!  Used to be 50.  Dunno who makes quality pregapped sets these days?

[Zip Tie]

I'm planning on going all the way in and replacing the crank and rod bearings if need be. I want to make sure this engine is good to go for a long time when I put it in the car. I don't want any "what ifs".

[GeneralDisorder]

Don't mess with the bottom end - or if you do have it professionally line honed and assembled by a proper Subaru experienced engine builder. Trust me you don't want to attempt a block split without any experience. The chances of it ending up better than not touching it at all are extremely small. 

GD

[Zip Tie]

3 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Don't mess with the bottom end - or if you do have it professionally line honed and assembled by a proper Subaru experienced engine builder. Trust me you don't want to attempt a block split without any experience. The chances of it ending up better than not touching it at all are extremely small. 

GD

Ok. So looking at the picture of the pistons would you suggest I just get new piston rings?

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes. If there is no evidence of metal in the pan or in the filter (cut it), then just get new rings. NPR Japanese rings are a good choice. Make sure you check the end gaps. DO NOT HONE. Do not touch the cylinder walls. 

GD

 

[Zip Tie]

NPR rings are better than OEM Subaru rings?

[GeneralDisorder]

1 hour ago, Zip Tie said:

NPR rings are better than OEM Subaru rings?

Just as good. 1/4 the price. 

GD

[Tom Newell]

I will offer up a non-specific alternative view on you rebuilding an engine. Meant in an respectful manner with regard to all alternate opinions (things really can be very difficult).

For a long, long time, people have told me I should not try to rebuild or fix something or ride a motorcycle or take a different job or whatever. I just don't have the "experience" (and sometimes equipment).

Well, do you know what I have? Ability, aspiration and persistence. The combination of these attributes leads to accomplishments, and these successes can never be taken away from me.

I do not know why anyone does this sort of discouragement (and this is not specific; it is very, very common; probably I do it too). After all, they, all of them, had once not done what they are telling you not to do, but now they have (if they have not done it, ignore them completely, probably in all things).

So, for a very specific, real-world example. I was told for years (decades, really) that mere mortals can not and should not rebuild an automatic transmission. So what did I recently do? I rebuilt an automatic transmission. It took me a long time and I had to buy a bunch of tools (and the best manuals and videos I could find). But you know what, I get to keep the tools for next time and the accomplishment stays with me forever. And as a bonus, I got to put the labor $ budget in to vastly superior parts. And the transmission works great. (It is in an F350, so those transmissions have to be right or really bad things happen).

Anyway, do you know how I know I can do these things that others tell me I can not do (this is very, very important)? BECAUSE SOME OTHER HUMAN BEINGS HAS DONE IT BEFORE.

Please don't let people hold you back from what you want to do.

Good luck to all.

[Zip Tie]

16 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Don't mess with the bottom end - or if you do have it professionally line honed and assembled by a proper Subaru experienced engine builder. Trust me you don't want to attempt a block split without any experience. The chances of it ending up better than not touching it at all are extremely small. 

GD

What are the issues/mistakes I'm going to encounter if I do crack the case? The o-rings I've already replaced have been completely brittle, so I want to replace the oil and coolant o-rings in the case at least. Please point me in the right direction so I don't waste my time.

[heartless]

2 hours ago, Tom Newell said:

I will offer up a non-specific alternative view on you rebuilding an engine. Meant in an respectful manner with regard to all alternate opinions (things really can be very difficult).

For a long, long time, people have told me I should not try to rebuild or fix something or ride a motorcycle or take a different job or whatever. I just don't have the "experience" (and sometimes equipment).

Well, do you know what I have? Ability, aspiration and persistence. The combination of these attributes leads to accomplishments, and these successes can never be taken away from me.

I do not know why anyone does this sort of discouragement (and this is not specific; it is very, very common; probably I do it too). After all, they, all of them, had once not done what they are telling you not to do, but now they have (if they have not done it, ignore them completely, probably in all things).

So, for a very specific, real-world example. I was told for years (decades, really) that mere mortals can not and should not rebuild an automatic transmission. So what did I recently do? I rebuilt an automatic transmission. It took me a long time and I had to buy a bunch of tools (and the best manuals and videos I could find). But you know what, I get to keep the tools for next time and the accomplishment stays with me forever. And as a bonus, I got to put the labor $ budget in to vastly superior parts. And the transmission works great. (It is in an F350, so those transmissions have to be right or really bad things happen).

Anyway, do you know how I know I can do these things that others tell me I can not do (this is very, very important)? BECAUSE SOME OTHER HUMAN BEINGS HAS DONE IT BEFORE.

Please don't let people hold you back from what you want to do.

Good luck to all.

just as an FYI - GD builds Subarus for a living, and he is DAMN good at what he does. When he tells someone not to do something, one should probably take the advice

that said, as a female, I have done more things that i was told not to do, or that I "can't" do (because of being female) than you can shake a stick at. Mostly because I was told I couldn't.. yes, i did run into things that i could not do well, or needed help with, but many things I did, and did well.

But, I am also wise enough to listen to those with far more experience than I have in certain situations. GD is one of those people.

rebuilding an engine - any engine - is not a simple task. listening to the advice of those that have the experience is just good common sense.

[Zip Tie]

4 minutes ago, heartless said:

just as an FYI - GD builds Subarus for a living, and he is DAMN good at what he does. When he tells someone not to do something, one should probably take the advice

that said, as a female, I have done more things that i was told not to do, or that I "can't" do (because of being female) than you can shake a stick at. Mostly because I was told I couldn't.. yes, i did run into things that i could not do well, or needed help with, but many things I did, and did well.

But, I am also wise enough to listen to those with far more experience than I have in certain situations. GD is one of those people.

rebuilding an engine - any engine - is not a simple task. listening to the advice of those that have the experience is just good common sense.

I totally agree with you, GD knows what he's talking about, no question there. That's why I'm asking these questions. I don't want to do all this work, put this engine in and have a spun bearing or something else I could have addressed when the engine was taken apart.

 

[Zip Tie]

Any idea what these mean? I know LKQ is a auto dismantler, but does this mean there's a warranty on this engine? The sticker is on top of the block and the coin thing is on the back of the passenger side head.

[Rampage]

5 hours ago, Zip Tie said:

What are the issues/mistakes I'm going to encounter if I do crack the case?

Main bearings and their oil clearance and alignment of the crankshaft.

When you pull the pistons make sure they go back into the same hole.

The FSM has good info and pictures on the piston rings and checking the end gap of the compression ring in the cylinder.

[3Pin]

The warranty tag was for 2009.  Usually they offer a 30-60 or 90 day warranty on a yard engine.  That has been my experience.  Do they offer total rebuilds and go 3 yrs 36K?

[nvu]

Coin thing means the heads were worked on at a machine shop.  Likely engine already had a head gasket job in the past.

[el_freddo]

Those coins also means the head hasn’t over heated since the last work was done. They’re there as a warranty on their work. Over heat the heads and the coins fall off. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Zip Tie]

I found this guys YouTube channel last night and he seems to be doing what I am going to do. It seems pretty informative and straight forward (he doesn't appear to measure anything on camera, which is a little concerning). What do you guys think? 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCagMQRJltkIanI3KK1o5D7w

[3Pin]

Thanks for the info on the coins.  I did not know that.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I have seen absolutely zero videos that do a block measure and assembly properly. 

The reason I say not to attempt it, is not because it can't be done by mere mortals (which might describe me - on a good day), but rather because the investment in proper tools, and the steep learning curve generally precludes it being worthwhile and without hands-on training on assembly techniques and  the minutiae of accurately reading 10ths bore gauges, the chances of it going very much sideways shortly after startup are quite high. 

The problems are many, and the pitfalls serious and deep. Primarily you are dealing with an aluminum block where main bearing clearances and not stable with respect to temperature. So that cold clearances (setup) are half what operating temp clearances will be. Further you have a split block that has two dowels that align it - after a dozen dissasembly and reassembly cycles during cleaning, checking, and so forth they are no kind of accurate. With cold clearances being between 0.0003" and 0.0012" you can EASILY be out of alignment on the case halves by MORE than half your total bearing clearance resulting in immediate main bearing damage on startup. Just think about that for a minute..... 

There's a lot of other pieces that are unknown or ignored. Too many to go into and honestly most of this is hard won trade information that's not known or published anywhere including the factory service manual. 

I will leave you with this. The FSM states there is NO remedy for enlarged main bearing clearances. You must replace the block in cases where it doesn't meet spec. I have measured a LOT of blocks and NONE meet the spec. So written between the line of the FSM is that virtually all blocks are garbage and should be disposed of..... a good machinist can line hone a block once or maybe twice. After that they are indeed scrap. 

GD

[Zip Tie]

GD I understand. And the more I clean on the block the more signs I see of someone already having cracked it open (ultra black pushing out of the seams).

I took the heads in to an engine shop today to get resurfaced, cleaned and pressure tested. The old dude in there took a quick look at them and said it'd probably need new valve guides and seals and it was probably burning oil pretty good.

I showed him this picture and he said there might be a problem with the piston skirts rubbing on the cylinders (see photo, 5 o'clock in the cylinders). He said I definitely needed to check the rings because the clean sections on the piston meant oil has been getting through there. And measure the piston skirts at the same time.

[GeneralDisorder]

The shadow at 5 o-clock means nothing really. The "skirt" doesn't come up that far..... whoever you talked with is talking out their a$$ and has no experience with Subaru engines. 

The cylinders look fine. Put rings in it and call it good. If there is piston skirt scuffing then send me the pistons for knurling. 

Every EJ turbo we build has forged pistons and they fit quite loose and "slap" when cold. Doesn't have any real effect and they still don't burn oil. 

GD

[Zip Tie]

 

35 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

The shadow at 5 o-clock means nothing really. The "skirt" doesn't come up that far..... whoever you talked with is talking out their a$$ and has no experience with Subaru engines. 

The cylinders look fine. Put rings in it and call it good. If there is piston skirt scuffing then send me the pistons for knurling. 

Every EJ turbo we build has forged pistons and they fit quite loose and "slap" when cold. Doesn't have any real effect and they still don't burn oil. 

GD

I thought that sounded a little weird. I'll have time this weekend to pull the pistons and check the rings.

Thanks for all your help

[Zip Tie]

I pulled the pistons this morning and besides being really dirty the look fine. After I clean them up I'll get a better look at the ring lands to check for cracks. One thing that did catch my eye was the condition of the wrist pin bearings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they shouldn't have that copper color to them.

[Zip Tie]