ER27 inherent issues & weak points

[tjet]

I'm planning on a rebuild of a '89 ER27 to swap into my VW Vanagon. I'd like to pick some of your brains to identify weak points on this engine & ask some questions:

1. Block: Prone to cracking or warping?
2. Rotating assembly: Any durability issues with crank, rods, rod bolts, or pistons?
3. Heads: Prone to cracking or warping (or leaks - water, oil, exhaust, or combustion gasses)?
4. Head bolts: Any known issues?
5. Oil system: Any issues with leaks or low pressure? Pump durability? Oil pan leaks?
6. Cooling system: Any known or common issues (water pump durability, etc) running hot / too cold?
7. Head gaskets: Any common gasket leaks?
8. Timing belts: Any known issues with the belts or pulleys not lasting to the OEM replacement interval?
9. Accessory drive: Any issues with belts or pulleys?
10. Electrical & EFI: How is the life of the alternator & harnesses? Injectors?
11. Exhaust: Any issues with exhaust manifolds or cracking?
12. Ignition system: Issues with distributor or coil?
13. Misc: Any odd behaviors of this engine? IE: detonation, vibrations, etc? Any XT6 engine related recalls or SB's?
14. Most common failure issue or design complaint?
15. Useful engine life & RPM limit?

Feel free to add any issues you had or anything I missed.

Thanks in advance

Edited February 18, 2020 by tjet

[DaveT]

The biggest thing - MANY parts are NLA.
It would be far better to use an EJ22 with an adapter plate to the transmission.  Either way you are in for a load of work, but with an EJ, parts are available, and the EJ22 is one of the best & most reliable engines.

[idosubaru]

I’ve been driving XTs since 1993 and have owned a couple dozen ER27s as daily drivers and worked on others.  250,000 mile engines, and more,  if well taken care of.  

The blocks and heads are non issues. Though splitting and assembling one yourself is not ideal.  

Those  heads (and other old generation Subaru heads) get superficial, benign cracks between the valve seats. very well known amongst old school Subaru folks but not anyone else.  Ignore them and carry on, but they’ll freak you or a shop out if they’re not familiar with old school subarus.  High mileage ones can get warn HLA seats.

headgaskets no big deal. I don’t know if headgaskets are still available OEM but those would be best.

Oil pumps don’t “fail” but can often cause incessant ticking by introducing air into the oil.  (It’s often called TOD or Tick is Death, although it’s a misnomer since it doesn’t cause any problems).  Engine runs fine and it’s benign but engine sounds like a diesel. Oil pumps are NLA and one of the most common needs that would be nice to have available.  

New OEM timing belts, pulleys and tensioners are good for the factory recommended 60k change interval.  Some of those pulleys are no longer available and old pulleys are devoid of grease and will seize and break the belt if not addressed.  how you address those timing pulleys and if you use nonOEM parts will dictate change interval.  I regrease the bearings, use after market timing belts, and check the belt and bearings around 30k. 

The passenger side belt had an adjustment routine that’s suggested to do at routine intervals and there’s an access point through the belt cover for that process. 

A well maintained OEM water pump is good for the 60k timing belt interval. But you may not get OEM and the long shafts and general design lend themselves to replacing with every timing belt change. They don’t have any ominous or outlandish failure modes, just wear and age. 

Electrical issues - these are only an issue now with age and brittle/corroded connectors.  

The CTS wiring is so common I have no idea how many of those I’ve fixed and I’ve done them Preventatively before.  There’s an injector harness thats the same and can be bought new and sometimes the wire a few inches back needs replaced.  Very easy, you would just address it as soon as you were building the engine. 

Plastic alternator connector - same thing. Brittle, but they’re obvious and easy to diagnose because you’ll loose charging. There’s a new connector available, easy and you’ll do this from the beginning unless you get a rare perfect connector.  
  
IAC - idle control sticks very commonly. Clean them out liberally internally, preferably while activating the valve so it’s cleaning through the whole range of motion and getting all parts.  They can also fail and need replaced.

knock sensors don’t fail often during nominal use but are so fragile with age they can break during removal or work.

convert to an EJ alternator so you have more modern availability.  

that’s it - lots of parts are NLA and not a huge supply and it’s only going to get worse.

Why not use an EJ22 engine?

 

[tjet]

Great info....Thanks a lot.

As far as the EJ22, I was going to install one (i have a 90 I pulled out of a car last summer), but I stumbled across 2 complete ER27 engines, so I want to give it a try. Worst case, I will swap it for an EJ22 or 25 (would probably install an EJ25)  if this turns out to be a fail. Regarding the NLA parts, I'm kind of use to that driving my syncro. I always keep some extra no-go parts in my van: ECU, alternator, air flow meter, FPR, fuel pump, water pump, distributor, belts, relays and fuses. The one thing I dont carry is a starter.

BTW, the sound of a good running ER27 sold me...

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by tjet

[Numbchux]

I love XT6s and ER27s, but no. Not at all worth the work to swap it in this day and age.

EJ22 is smaller, lighter, more reliable, more fuel efficient, better supported. ER27 ECU is mounted in the trunk, so you basically have to make a harness from scratch to swap it. Or spend the dough on a standalone.

They use a different bellhousing pattern, so if you change your mind, you will need a different transmission adapter.

 

If you want a 6-cylinder, get an EZ30. Modern, reliable, powerful. Don't mess with anything more than 20 years old (sorry EG33....getting to be a dinosaur as well).

[idosubaru]

6 hours ago, tjet said:

Great info....Thanks a lot.

As far as the EJ22, I was going to install one (i have a 90 I pulled out of a car last summer), but I stumbled across 2 complete ER27 engines, so I want to give it a try. Worst case, I will swap it for an EJ22 or 25 (would probably install an EJ25)  if this turns out to be a fail. Regarding the NLA parts, I'm kind of use to that driving my syncro. I always keep some extra no-go parts in my van: ECU, alternator, air flow meter, FPR, fuel pump, water pump, distributor, belts, relays and fuses. The one thing I dont carry is a starter.

BTW, the sound of a good running ER27 sold me...

You'll only need engine parts so that's an advantage over those driving XT6's.  As long as you know what you're getting into you'll be fine. 

 

6 hours ago, tjet said:

 

BTW, the sound of a good running ER27 sold me...

 

That's Eric I think.  I know of that guy, I helped him with ER27 stuff and shipped him some parts back then.  Unless it was a different 914 conversion guy I sent parts too, but either way I've talked to that guy while he was doing that build.  

That's probably the sound of a mid-engined, custom intake, custom exhaust, light weight matchbox car with limited sound insulation properties, more than the engine choice.  But doesn't matter, you don't seem surprised or worried about hard to find parts and using archaic technology, so you'll be good to go!

Edited February 19, 2020 by idosubaru

[tjet]

10 hours ago, Numbchux said:

...If you want a 6-cylinder, get an EZ30. Modern, reliable, powerful. Don't mess with anything more than 20 years old (sorry EG33....getting to be a dinosaur as well).

Is the EZ30 a non-interference engine? That's one of the things I like about the ER27. 

[moosens]

Have some fun with what you’re doing but don’t throw those 2.2’s out. 

 

There are plenty of negatives involved but you seem to have a handle on things. Go for it Post back with results.

 

But all that said , gee those kits for the 2.2 and vast amount of knowledge makes it a tough choice to go 2.7

Any references out these on this project ? 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by moosens

[tjet]

Yes, there was a guy in Seattle that installed one in his Vanagon. I've attached some pics below. 

[idosubaru]

11 hours ago, tjet said:

Is the EZ30 a non-interference engine? That's one of the things I like about the ER27. 

No, but it doesn’t matter. It has a chain which never needs maintenance. Those engines are awesome, that’s why there’s 3 in my driveway now - 265k, 205k, 180k (though one isn’t mine but I helped them get it). Easy to drive 100,000 miles without ever thinking about them and very few issues.

No timing belt. no distributor cap and rotor. No plug wires. The stock plugs commonly can last 100k and look good when you pull them.

[tjet]

FYI - I started a new thread for my engine build...

 

 

[jdmleggy97]

On 2/19/2020 at 3:50 PM, Numbchux said:

I love XT6s and ER27s, but no. Not at all worth the work to swap it in this day and age.

EJ22 is smaller, lighter, more reliable, more fuel efficient, better supported. ER27 ECU is mounted in the trunk, so you basically have to make a harness from scratch to swap it. Or spend the dough on a standalone.

They use a different bellhousing pattern, so if you change your mind, you will need a different transmission adapter.

 

If you want a 6-cylinder, get an EZ30. Modern, reliable, powerful. Don't mess with anything more than 20 years old (sorry EG33....getting to be a dinosaur as well).

My Thoughts exactly...number 1 reason I’ve ditched all the ER stuff and just decided to AWD and EZ30R swap mine