electrical problem request for advice re: electrical problem

[doris]

Greetings. I am seeking advice re: '96 Legacy Outback AWD. The car has 305,000 miles, but still runs pretty well. The problem is/are: a] tail lights do not turn off even when key is removed from ignition; b] brake lights are not working; and c] cruise control doesn't work although light on the dashboard button is lit. Can anybody help me to determine if this is a problem with faulty stoplight switch? The fuses seem to be okay. Thanks in advance.

Edited February 24, 2020 by doris
undesired strike through in much of the original...

[brus brother]

first thing to check is the rocker switch on top of the steering column. If it is in the on position, the marker lights will stay on. It's a European thing. Here it is just used to kill your battery if you hit it by mistake.

Try throwing the switch and see if the lights go out.

[brus brother]

[doris]

Thanks, Brus Brother. It isn't the switch. That controls the 'valet parking lights', for whatever that might be worth. This is a different problem. There was no problem last week, but a combination of tail lights not turning off, cruise control not working and brake lights also not working is the issue. Could it be a faulty stop light switch? [https://www.autozone.com/electrical-and-lighting/stoplight-switch/duralast-stoplight-switch-ja4229/467757_567129_0]

I'd certainly be grateful for any follow-up and thanks in advance. 

[brus brother]

not a subaru but I think you are heading in the right direction.

 

[Rampage]

Are the backlights for the instrument cluster on?

The Park Switch will turn on the parking lights, but not the instrument cluster lights.

 

You said Tail Lights----.

If it is just the rear, is the third brake light on? This would be the brake light switch stuck on which would also tell the cruise control that you are braking so it would not work.

[el_freddo]

Rampage had a great point there! 

Also check that your brake light globes aren’t blown. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Numbchux]

So, your tail lights are on, but not the front parking lights? If that's the case, that's quite the issue. Might be something simple, but that's not likely the stop light. I suspect you've got broken/shorted wires, and/or corroded sockets and blown fuses.

Do your front parking lights come on at all?

Get a good wiring diagram (jdmfsm.info) and multimeter, and start testing.

[doris]

Thank you, all, for the advice. I will try the least painful option under the circumstances, i.e., take it to a mechanic. I'll post the results asap! Best wishes.

[el_freddo]

6 hours ago, doris said:

I will try the least painful option under the circumstances, i.e., take it to a mechanic

Least painful for you, or your wallet? 

Auto sparky might be the better way to go for this one if you’re not going to investigate yourself. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[doris]

i'm a little bit behind you folks and have no idea what you are referring to. i'm not planning on shipping the subaru to oz if that's what you had in mind. https://autosparky.com/

taking her to the mechanic is 'least painful' option for me and my wallet. if they can fix it, i won't need to buy another one. my car would like to try for 400,000. a lot of heart. 

thanks for your help. maybe you can tell me what auto sparky really means. 

[idosubaru]

On 2/24/2020 at 4:42 PM, doris said:

Greetings. I am seeking advice re: '96 Legacy Outback AWD. The car has 305,000 miles, but still runs pretty well. The problem is/are: a] tail lights do not turn off even when key is removed from ignition; b] brake lights are not working; and c] cruise control doesn't work although light on the dashboard button is lit. Can anybody help me to determine if this is a problem with faulty stoplight switch? The fuses seem to be okay. Thanks in advance

As a simple check Id check:

fuses - is there one fuse that shares the cruise and brake circuit?

Check all the bulbs and bulb sockets in the rear tailgate.  It’s very common for those to be problematic with age.  Rust, corrosion, small cracks in lens allowing moisture/condensation, bulb base warn to snot, bulb fixtures brittle and shorted....et.al.   

Wire issues are “common” at the rear tailgate too - right where the wire passes from the body through the flexible rubber conduit you can see when the hatch it helped, and into the rear tailgate.  

I can’t envision lights impacting cruise control but I don’t have the wiring diagrams memorized and maybe they are two separate issues.  

did these issues both start at the exact same time or is there a chance they started at different times?

[idosubaru]

If you suspect the brake switch - is just disconnect that and see if anything changes - like the cruise or taillights start working....

[brus brother]

13 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

As a simple check Id check:

fuses - is there one fuse that shares the cruise and brake circuit?

Check all the bulbs and bulb sockets in the rear tailgate.  It’s very common for those to be problematic with age.  Rust, corrosion, small cracks in lens allowing moisture/condensation, bulb base warn to snot, bulb fixtures brittle and shorted....et.al.   

Wire issues are “common” at the rear tailgate too - right where the wire passes from the body through the flexible rubber conduit you can see when the hatch it helped, and into the rear tailgate.  

I can’t envision lights impacting cruise control but I don’t have the wiring diagrams memorized and maybe they are two separate issues.  

did these issues both start at the exact same time or is there a chance they started at different times?

While they could be two separate issues, I'm liking Rampage's idea above.

If the rear brake lights are on due to the brake light switch being stuck, this would also deactivate cruise control

I don't really cruise much but I recall that when you step on the brake, the car will disengage cruise. Poor lil Subie thinks ya got your foot on the brake pedal.

Switch broken = rear brake lights on + no cruise

Mathematicological problem solved ;-)

[brus brother]

Doris. You might not want to tackle the switch but the above video will give you an idea of what is involved.

[doris]

39 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

If you suspect the brake switch - is just disconnect that and see if anything changes - like the cruise or taillights start working....

Thank you. I would certainly try if I could get the metal bracket off the steering column. I will need to find the world's tiniest wrench apparently. Two of the supporting bolts are microscopic and the two main ones might as well be soldered. Thanks in any case.

[doris]

22 minutes ago, brus brother said:

While they could be two separate issues, I'm liking Rampage's idea above.

If the rear brake lights are on due to the brake light switch being stuck, this would also deactivate cruise control

I don't really cruise much but I recall that when you step on the brake, the car will disengage cruise. Poor lil Subie thinks ya got your foot on the brake pedal.

Switch broken = rear brake lights on + no cruise

Mathematicological problem solved ;-)

Rather remarkably I came to the same conclusion by the same means. What I think are the tail lights are perhaps actually the brake lights, or, since there are 4 of them perhaps 2 are tail lights and 2 are brake lights...in which case, both tail lights and brake lights are on all the time. I will check the switch one way or another and thank you very much for your help.

[brus brother]

Same issue on 96 Imprezza Outback click HERE

In the link above, Sea#3 mentions another possible location of problem, but after brake switch replaced (twice incorrectly) and finally using correct part matched by VIN # all is well in Subieland.

305,000 miles is impressive.

Welcome to the Board. 

[idosubaru]

7 hours ago, doris said:

Thank you. I would certainly try if I could get the metal bracket off the steering column. I will need to find the world's tiniest wrench apparently. Two of the supporting bolts are microscopic and the two main ones might as well be soldered. Thanks in any case.

Rather than remove it, can you just disconnect the wire to the switch? If the lights go out when you do that then this may help diagnosis. 

And then someone/mechanic could test the switch operation with a digital multimeter at that disconnected wire.  Just stick the probe(s) in the connector and see if the switch turns on and off properly or has erroneous readings.  
 

[el_freddo]

10 hours ago, doris said:

i'm not planning on shipping the subaru to oz if that's what you had in mind. https://autosparky.com ...

... thanks for your help. maybe you can tell me what auto sparky really means. 

An auto sparky is basically an electrician that is specialised in automotive electricals. They’re completely different to domestic electricians that work on houses  etc.

They can usually do more but aren’t full blown (qualified) mechanics. 

I hope for you that it’s an easy fix! 

Cheers 

Bennie

[idosubaru]

5 hours ago, el_freddo said:

An auto sparky is basically an electrician that is specialised in automotive electricals. They’re completely different to domestic electricians that work on houses  etc.

They can usually do more but aren’t full blown (qualified) mechanics. 

I hope for you that it’s an easy fix! 

Cheers 

Bennie

What he says is still true here as well - Many shops lean heavily mechanical, don’t regularly test circuits and and are likely to guess before test.  A shop/mechanic adept at electrical testing would be ideal in your case unless it’s real obvious the switch or something obvious is the cause. 

[idosubaru]

Another option may be to disconnect the connector and  plug in a used Or cheap switch, without actually removing the old/installing another.  Just disconnect and plug in. plug it in and in like 3 minutes you can tell if that resolves the issue.  

Edited February 26, 2020 by idosubaru

[el_freddo]

2 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Another option may be to disconnect the connector and  plug in a used Or cheap switch, without actually removing the old/installing another.  Just disconnect and plug in. plug it in and in like 3 minutes you can tell if that resolves the issue.  

And make sure the switch is compressed otherwise the circuit is closed, same as if you have your foot on the brakes. 

With a second switch plugged in you can at least have someone manipulate it while you check the tail lights out  

Cheers 

Bennie

[doris]

On 2/25/2020 at 9:03 PM, brus brother said:

While they could be two separate issues, I'm liking Rampage's idea above.

If the rear brake lights are on due to the brake light switch being stuck, this would also deactivate cruise control

I don't really cruise much but I recall that when you step on the brake, the car will disengage cruise. Poor lil Subie thinks ya got your foot on the brake pedal.

Switch broken = rear brake lights on + no cruise

Mathematicological problem solved ;-)

Rather remarkably I came to the same conclusion by the same means. What I think are the tail lights are perhaps actually the brake lights, or, since there are 4 of them perhaps 2 are tail lights and 2 are brake lights...in which case, both tail lights and brake lights are on all the time. I will check the switch one way or another and thank you very much for your help.

[doris]

Thank you everybody who has offered help. It has been a learning curve, i.e., what should have been obvious in 5 seconds has gradually sunk in after almost a week. I did not understand how the brake switch worked. I thought it was strictly 'internal'. I have learned about the 'plunger'. I hope to design a fix using gorilla tape and a penny. In short, I replaced the brake switch and it didn't help. Then I realized that the plunger needs to make contact with brake pedal. Pretty bright. That took 4 days for me to figure out. I am now trying to find a real brake pedal stopper: https://parts.raffertysubaru.com/p/Subaru_1996_Legacy/STOPPER-PEDAL-B/49247386/36036AC001.html . I am going to try the gorilla tape and penny fix that I found online assuming I cannot adjust the brake switch to make it work as is. I don't recall finding any pieces on my floor and so I'm not entirely sure that this model uses a brake pedal stopper! Anyway, thanks again and I'll forward any additional details after the attempted 'fix'.