(UPDATED pics and vid) Help! Newbie with 1994 EJ22 in van. Won't start. Skipped a tooth??

[SubVAN]

Hey guys. Glad to join the forum!

I have a unique 4x4 VW van with a professionally engineered 2.2 conversion. The motor is from a 1994 Legacy. New long block installed a few years ago.

Issue: Was running perfect. Parked after a trip. Went to move it a week later and it just cranks. Sounds like it fires once during cranking but never picks up. No weird noises

I'm fairly experienced working on engines, just not this one! Checked within ohms specs on coil, crank/cam sensors, TPS in spec, plugs look good, fuel pump firing up. Disconnected MAF, no difference. Battery is fully charged up, plus using a 50amp charger/helper while testing.

Tried starter fluid- two second blast into intake hose: no difference! Watched plug fire outside motor while someone else cranked it, definitely lots of sparking.

So... timing?? The reman'ed long block was $3500 and came from ATK motors with 3y warranty but of course it just ran out. Now I'm worried that maybe they used those Chinese idlers/tensioner or maybe didn't set something correctly but it's only got 10K miles on it. What else should I be looking at? Accessing the entire belt is tough but I think I can do it, just wanted to check other things before taking all that stuff off. I did take the side covers off and the belt is like new. Doesn't feel weird but Im not familiar enough with what the tension should feel like. I can reach in there and flex the belt downward without too much effort but there's definitely some springy tension on there.

Edited March 3, 2020 by SubVAN

[john in KY]

44 minutes ago, SubVAN said:

I can reach in there and flex the belt downward without too much effort but there's definitely some springy tension on there

That doesn't sound right to me.  

The only other thing I can think of is the injectors aren't firing. 

[heartless]

you should not be able to flex the timing belt much at all.

hate to say it, but it sounds like it has skipped a tooth or two from improper tension (ie: tensioner is worn out, or was damaged by compressing to quickly) and just the act of cranking it over after sitting for a while can do it.

The good news is, being a 94, it is non-interference, so redoing the timing - with a new tensioner - should solve the problem

Quote

The only other thing I can think of is the injectors aren't firing. 

the fact that starting fluid failed to produce firing would kind of negate that as an issue.

[SubVAN]

If I have a tooth or two skipped, isn't still likely I'd get some kind of stumbling start? I've had many engines with bad timing and I can usually get some kind of start. This thing wont even fire for a few seconds with starting fluid so Im worried it's something else unless its common that it could skip several teeth.?

I'll update when I get all the crap off. Can anyone point to a good write-up on setting up the tension properly?

Edited March 2, 2020 by SubVAN

[Rampage]

With the end covers off, turn the crank and line up the cam timing marks, then try to look at the crank timing mark. You may have to remove the pully to see it. Sometimes the marks are a little hard to see.

Get the FSM here. The pic is from the 95 Legacy.

http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/

Edited March 2, 2020 by Rampage

[el_freddo]

Use the crank key way as the reference. From memory it’s 180* out from the timing mark on the crank timing gear. 

If the keyway is at 6 o’clock and the cam markers don’t line up, you’ve found your issue. Make sure you use the little line on the cam wheels to line things up, not the arrow! 

Cheers 

Bennie

[heartless]

9 hours ago, SubVAN said:

If I have a tooth or two skipped, isn't still likely I'd get some kind of stumbling start? I've had many engines with bad timing and I can usually get some kind of start. This thing wont even fire for a few seconds with starting fluid so Im worried it's something else unless its common that it could skip several teeth.?

I'll update when I get all the crap off. Can anyone point to a good write-up on setting up the tension properly?

not necessarily. I have had them skip a tooth and die while driving (jumped on the throttle hard one day & it jumped & died, and running cover-less had heavy snow get in and cause it to jump - both times it was the tensioner being shot that allowed it to happen)

there is no specific write up for setting the tension..

the tensioner is hydraulic.. it is supposed to be compressed - very slowly - in a vise & pinned until everything is installed properly, the the pin pulled out

if the internal seals are shot, they will give easily and at that point should be replaced.

there are service manuals here: http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/

there is not a 94 specific manual, but the info in the 90-94 folder should work just fine for your needs - the major differences in these years were mostly cosmetic

[Rampage]

10 hours ago, SubVAN said:

Can anyone point to a good write-up on setting up the tension properly?

Simple, once the timing marks are correct slide the tensioner to the left using a screwdriver on the right end and tighten the two bolts then pull the pin.

In case the marks are worn off the belt, see pic.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Rampage

[SubVAN]

Thanks for the help. I researched this some but still have one question about that setup above. Couldn't the driveshaft be out of phase with the cams if you are simply going by the mark alone? It looks like you'd have a 50% chance of getting the timing correct unless you are confirming the valve positions visually. By all means correct me (please recall that I am new to this motor).

[3Pin]

Take a  hard look at the picture Rampage posted.  It is most appropriate for your situation and is really the answer to your question.

[Rampage]

A new timing belt has arrows pointing in the direction of rotation (clockwise) because of the different number of teeth on each side of the crank. There are white lines for each cam sprocket and the crankshaft. Looking at the first picture and turning each cam sprocket and the crankshaft gets them into position for the belt to go on.

The marks wear off, that is why the second picture show marking the belt. But you can only mark the belt that way if the timing is correct.

If I am going to reuse the belt I take the belt off and count the notches and mark them like in the second picture. But usually I just put a new one on.

[heartless]

there are also marks on the cam pulleys themselves that should be at the 12 o'clock position when things are in the correct places - and a mark on the back plate of the crank pulley that should also be at 12 o'clock (or the key-way at 6 as mentioned earlier) as seen here...

Do NOT use the arrows on the cam pulleys.

 

[john in KY]

Other thought: AFM.

[SubVAN]

Got the cover off today.. what a PITA! On these, the motor mount blocks the cover from coming off!

Check out this video! Does this look right?? (I bet not) Tension video

This pic is looking up at the crank. (Sorry access is tough for a camera) My cams are set for belt installation so my crank appears 180d off!

Also, my belt says something weird on it. It looks perfect but made in Thailand?? The tension pulley is a Japanese unit at least.

Edited March 3, 2020 by SubVAN

[SubVAN]

Other pics. The lower left idler has white grease on it. Seems odd.

[Rampage]

Wow,,,,,the video,,,,,that is a first for me. I have to use a big C-clamp to compress the piston and it goes slow, even one that has 300K miles on it..

That is why it jumped timing, for sure. Glad it is non-interference.

Well, one good thing about it is the belt is not covered with engine oil, so no leaky seals.

Did you find any ball bearings at the bottom of the rear cover? The tensioner pully looks funny. Maybe it's the angle.

Also, I noticed that the idler pulleys are single bearings. See how the bearing is at the center of the pulley. I only use the ones that are dual bearings.

Some guys add grease to the bearing with a needle, so maybe that is why the white grease.

[SubVAN]

The pulley seems fine and its an NSK. Isn't that the preferred brand? What about a best brand of tensioner to order? ITM? ACDelco? Tell me what do do guys!

 

Oh and no bearings found. I looked at the hyd tensioner closely but its really hard see the brand. I see something that looks like "Janson". ? What was the original brand?

Also the belt says something like Mitsu_osi? Should I get a gates blue belt?

Edited March 3, 2020 by SubVAN

[Rampage]

Maybe someone will chime in on what brand to get.

The only time I ever got a new tensioner was with a full timing kit with water pump. That was a long time ago.

I compress the piston on the tensioner real slow, so as not to damage it. About an eighth of a turn at a time on my 10" C-clamp. The FSM has a pressure rating on compressing it.

[Rampage]

I tried a Gates belt once. It split and broke apart in 3 months. Never again.

I have had good luck with Dayco and Subaru belts.

Mitsubishi probably. They make good stuff.

The 84 Dodge Rampage I used to have had a Mitsubishi engine and it worked good.

[el_freddo]

Yeah wow, I’ve never seen a tensioner like that before! 

I’d get a second hand one. Install it, reset the cam and crank timing, and get the engine started. 

THEN look into buying a full cam kit. Don’t get the kit until the engine is running, otherwise it’s a potential loss of money in the event you can’t get the engine running. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[nvu]

It's Mitsuboshi (spelled with an O), they make good timing belts.  Spin all the idlers when you take off the belt.  Any that freewheel like rollerskates should be replaced; those have no grease left.

[SubVAN]

Thanks. The brands are confusing as hell. Most of the kits I see smell like China. I have a Sub parts dealer near by. I guess I'll go there for real parts when needed. I don't want another one of these tensioners!

[el_freddo]

Nothing wrong with these tensioners. Just make sure it’s genuine. 

If you want to swap over to the later tensioner, you’ll need the matching mounting plate. And also check out YouTube videos of their knocking tensioners when the seal breaks on them. Always go genuine with the tensioner for this reason! 

Cheers

Bennie

[Crawlerdan]

if you'd like to swap to the newer style tensioner (which i highly recommend) i have the mounting plate, tensioner, hardware, etc here.

[lmdew]

I'd stay with the old style.  I have never seen one fail like that.  I pull spares out of the yard when I see them exposed by other pulling parts already.

As others have said compress slowly!