1987 Brat; Engine and Transmission Mount Replacement Problem

[aba4430]

I am in the midst of replacing front and rear mounts on my 87 Brat. The transmission mounts are DEA A6700 and the engine mounts are DEA A6702. The engine mounts needed to be modified in order to fit properly on the mount brackets. Otherwise they will not work well. I ground out a locating pin and also had to take off a couple of mm of metal on one side of each mount so the mount brackets would bolt up flush with the bend on each bracket clearing the edge of the mount.

However, I have run into a slight problem. After installing the tranny mounts, I left the mount stud bolts off to prevent any stress on the mount when lifting the engine to replace the engine mounts. Of course, while lifting the engine with a engine support bar, the tranny mount studs cleared the tranny cross member. Now the entire engine/transmission assembly is approximately 1/2 an inch or a bit more, shifted forward and I am having a hell of a time lining things up. Looks like the assembly is also twisted a bit, i.e. a bit higher on the right side vs. the left side. I fought with the set-up all afternoon and finally called it a day. Will tackle again tomorrow morning.

Can I use some ratcheting straps under the car to better align the engine/tranny to the proper position? I am thinking of hooking a strap on the front stabilizer bar and placing the strap hook on the tranny bracket just behind the tranny drain plug and using this set up to pull the assembly back some; with appropriate slack on the engine support bar chain. I Appreciate any ideas and TIA.

Some pictures of the modifications required with the motor mounts are attached. I do not recommend the DEA A6702 motor mounts if you want an easy bolt on replacement. Note the 33 year old original mount is smaller than the new mount. That picture shows the locator pin on the A6702 mount ground off. There is also a picture of the new mount sitting cocked on the mount bracket due to size, both mounts with the edges trimmed off and the modified mounts sitting flush on the brackets.

 

 

[aba4430]

Fixed the mounts satisfactorily today. Used a combination of two ratcheting straps looped over the front driveshafts and hooked onto the front sway bar, an engine support bar and a floor jack, and managed to get the engine/tranny assembly aligned properly. Now to continue with remainder of the work on the Brat. In the past two weeks, the Brat has been treated to the following:

1. Engine oil and filter change.
2. Original front lower ball joints.
3. Original front wheel bearings and seals.
4. New front driveshafts (Duralast)
5. Rear Disc brake conversion with straightened and refinished backing plates, and Beck Arnley remanufactured loaded calipers. I have just procured new rear rotors (Raybestos) and the short hose (Centric) that fits the caliper. Will replace the old hose and rotor over the next few days.
6. Magnaflow front exhaust manifold/catalytic converter, along with new gaskets. Original part was perfect and will keep as spare. Got the Magnaflow from AMZN for a steal.

Still left to do:

1. Front strut mounts and boots. Got a set of Mevotech mounts today and will do this tomorrow. Years ago when I replaced my struts and shocks, I reused the original mount, but remember that I had greased ball bearings in the mount (or was it separate? It has been a while!). However, the Mevotech does not include ball bearings. For boots/bump stops went with KYB's. Will tackle this tomorrow.
2. Front rotors (Raybestos) and pads (Wagner Thermoquiet PD291).
3. Need a new hood. Mine has a bunch of rust on it, and a slight ding.

After it is sound mechanically, will get the interior spruced up and possibly a respray.

[aba4430]

Update: I have been working on the Brat all day and have just taken a short break. One setback is that my struts are shot; the right front is worse than the left front. Looks like front struts for the Brat are no longer available. Subaru shows them, but the lower spring plate is NLA. I have done some preliminary searching here and am noting that FWD struts from certain models will fit. Question - would KYB 233023 (drivers) and 233022 (passengers) struts work on an 87 Brat. How about 4WD struts from an 86 GL wagon? I know Sachs has struts for them. Appreciate any help. My car remains on jacks and ramps.

[carfreak85]

No, those are for EA82 chassis.  They might work, but aren't the correct part for your EA81 chassis.  Rock Auto shows a Gabriel strut for the front, but is currently out of stock.

[aba4430]

Understand. I have put in a notification request when the Gabriel's arrive at RA. Will call Tacoma Subaru and see if they have lower spring seats for the original struts. Thx.

Minor add: Also sent a note to KYB USA to see what they say.

Edited May 12, 2020 by aba4430

[carfreak85]

We need to figure something out as a community.  The rear shocks are fairly easy to have made custom, but a dried up supply for front struts could literally be the death knell of the EA81 chassis.

[aba4430]

I have received some communication back from KYB, but sent them a few more questions. Will post their responses here later. Right now, per their feedback, the strut height, damping rates and piston rod thread (M12 X 1.25) specifications are the same between the 233022/233023 struts and the shot 234028's that are on my Brat. Awaiting their F/B on whether the strut piston rod threads have a flat a like the 234028 ones do, and whether the lower securement provisions to the knuckle are compatible, other than individual left and right side accessory brackets. If the lower securement provisions are compatible, then I might buy these and grind out a flat on the piston rod threads, so it will pass through the strut mount hole. Unless, the strut piston rod thread already has a flat......

Update: Sent them another question on whether the maximum diameter of the piston rod between the 233022/233023 and 234028 struts are the same. This is to make sure that the upper spring seat on the Brat is compatible with the 233022/233023 struts. This is a question as the 233022/233023 struts have a three tiered strut piston rod, starting at M12 X 1.25, then bulging to 15 mm and then to maximum diameter (not sure what this is?) vs. the 234028 that starts at M12 X 1.25 and then bulges to the full diameter of the piston rod. The upper spring seat for the EA82 might come into play here. Then need to worry about the spring diameters etc.

Edited May 13, 2020 by aba4430
minor corrections

[aba4430]

Update: Still working with KYB and sent them another question this morning. However, per their response yesterday, the 233022/233023 struts do have a flat on the stud mount portion. Plus the maximum strut piston rod diameter for both struts is 20 mm. They also said that the brake cable bracket on the 233022/233023 struts are 10 mm lower than on the 234028 struts. I sent them another question on whether the lower spring perch angle and dimensions are similar between the 233022/233023 struts and the 234028 strut. Once I get clarification on this, I will make a decision.

Now to work on my new brakes some. The Brat is pulling to the right when braking. Looking at the right rotor through the wheels, I can still see hatch marks on the outer surface. Looks like my right caliper is not doing its job or I may have some grease etc. on the surfaces.

[el_freddo]

The caliper issue is most likely sticky guide pins not allowing the caliper to slide inwards as the piston is pushing outwards. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[aba4430]

Will check this out shortly. Thx. Bennie.

[aba4430]

OK, when it rains, it pours. I would be pulling my hair out if I did not have so much time under the current climate out there. OK, so the outer passenger driveshaft boot, just prior to the large clamp has a rip and it slung CV grease on the brake backing plate, wheel, strut rod, exposed portion of the caliper etc. etc. The driveshaft is brand new, and I am sure with all the work I did, I managed to put that hole in the boot. It took me some effort to clean the grease off. Autozone has ordered a replacement for me and I will have it next Tuesday.

However, I cleaned the rotors, caliper pin bolt, caliper bracket pin and pads thoroughly and put them back together. Went for a test drive and the brakes are better with no pulling. Could have been a sticky caliper, a little grease or a combination of both. Looking at the inner rotor surface to bracket distance, I am concerned there is not much clearance. Will have to keep an eye on this; rotor scoring potential?

Some other issues that have cropped up are damaged exhaust manifold gaskets (simple fix) and a noisy auxiliary fan motor. Looking at suitable sized SPAL fans now.

OK, so this is my conversation with KYB over the past few days (better read from the bottom up). My only concern now is the lower spring perch dimensions and geometry. Will I have sufficient clearance in the fender area for the spring seat(s). More on this later.

_____

From: Tech Support <techsupport@kyb.com>

Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 08:45
To:
Subject: RE: 1987 Subaru Brat 4WD Dual Range

 

No, they are not similar. 233023/233022 is angled more, wider, and off-set on the strut body.

 

Regards,

Technical Support

KYB Americas Corporation

techsupport@kyb.com

_____

From:
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 6:33 AM
To: Tech Support <techsupport@kyb.com>
Subject: RE: 1987 Subaru Brat 4WD Dual Range

 

Good Morning KYB Tech Support,

I appreciate the responses below. I am almost ready to order the 233022/233023 struts and have one more question. Are the lower spring seat angle and size on the 233022/233023 struts similar to the angle and size on the defunct 234028 struts? I will go ahead and place my order after confirmation from you. Thanks again and best regards.

_____

From: Tech Support <techsupport@kyb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 16:53
To:
Subject: RE: 1987 Subaru Brat 4WD Dual Range

 

If what you say about the one hole on the accessory bracket of 234028 is unused, it’s possible you could work with 233022/233023.  The height of the bracket is about 10mm lower on the body of the strut for 233022/233023, but maybe you can make this work.

 

Yes, 233022/233023 does have a flat section on the stud mount of the piston rod to secure it in the mount.  234028 and 233022/233023 all have the same piston rod diameter of 20mm.

 

Regards,

Technical Support

KYB Americas Corporation

techsupport@kyb.com

_____

From:
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 12:23 PM
To: Tech Support <techsupport@kyb.com>
Subject: RE: 1987 Subaru Brat 4WD Dual Range

 

Dear KYB Tech Support,

One other question – Are the full (maximum) piston rod diameters between the 233022/233023 struts and the 234028 struts the same. This is to make sure that the piston rod of the 233022/233023 struts can go through the upper spring mount plate on the car. Best regards,

_____

From:
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:21
To: 'Tech Support' <techsupport@kyb.com>
Subject: RE: 1987 Subaru Brat 4WD Dual Range

 

Good Morning KYB Technical Support,

I appreciate your detailed reply below. The mounts appear to be the same based on web pictures of the 233022/233023 vs. the 234028’s. The 234028’s that are on the Brat now have a dual (actually single) accessory bracket for the brake cable, with one of the bracket holes unused. Hence the same strut is specified for the right and left sides. However, the 233022/233023 combo has specific accessory brackets for the left and right sides. This is what I want to confirm prior to ordering the 233022/233023 struts. Would you folks be able to look at the drawings in your literature database and confirm.

 

Another question is whether the threaded portion of the piston nut has a flat section like the 234028, to secure it in the mount whilst torqueing the strut piston rod to specification. I ask this is because the strut length and thread size (M12x1.25) is the same per your confirmation below, and if the threaded piston rod is the only part that will extend into the strut mount hole, then I will be OK. Worse case, I will be out of a few dollars if it does not work. Just trying to do as much homework as possible prior to ordering the 233022/233023 struts.

 

I appreciate your responses.

Best regards,

_____

From: Tech Support <techsupport@kyb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 14:32
To:
Subject: RE: 1987 Subaru Brat 4WD Dual Range

 

With regards to the damping specifications and overall lengths, 233022/233023 and 234028 are pretty similar so that would not be an issue.  The upper mount stud size is the same for all 3 part numbers, however, the design of the piston rods are a little different so SM5365 may not fit or may require modification to work with 233022/233023.  These struts have a stepped piston rod, meaning it starts off at the same diameter as 234028 with the M12x1.25 mount, but then it has a shoulder area that bulges out to 15mm, and then bulges out again the full diameter of the piston rod.  234028 on the other hand starts at the tip with the M12x1.25 mount, then bulges out to the full diameter of the piston rod.

 

Aside from all of this, 233022/233023 would likely require a lot of modification to fit on your vehicle because the lower mount and accessory brackets are very different so you likely to remove and redo welds for these brackets, which we do not recommend unless you have the correct tools.

 

Regards,

Technical Support

KYB Americas Corporation

techsupport@kyb.com

_____

From:
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 9:14 AM
To: Tech Support <techsupport@kyb.com>
Subject: 1987 Subaru Brat 4WD Dual Range

 

Good Morning KYB Technical Support,

I am fixing quite a few things on my 1987 Brat, including replacing the front struts. I replaced the originals with KYB struts, P/N 234028’s in 2004, but they are worn out. I cannot find any replacements. Questions:

1. Would struts 233023 and 233022 be suitable for my application? These are for FWD Subaru’s from 1985 to 1989, I believe. I am not worried about the slightly lower (possibly) ride height in the front. The KYB motor mount specified for the 1987 Brat is SM5365. Would the KYB 233023 and 233022 strut piston rods clear this strut mount piston rod hole? If so, I may be able to use the 233022 and 233023 struts.

2. I cannot find the specifications for the 234028 struts on your web site anymore, presumably as these have been discontinued. How can I compare the specifications for the defunct 234028 and 233023/233022 struts?

My car is disabled presently and I appreciate a quick response. Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

 

Brat Details:

Year: 1987

Make: Subaru

Model: Brat

Transmission: Dual range 4WD

VIN: JF3AU53B1HEXXXXXX

[Rampage]

Just found this. 4WD. They show a price instead of discontinued. They call it a shock, which it actually is. The combined unit is a strut.

https://www.subarupartsforyou.com/v-1987-subaru-brat--gl--1-8l-h4-gas/front-suspension--front-suspension

 

[aba4430]

Thanks. This is the one I called Tacoma Subaru (Subaruparts.com) yesterday. They indicated that this is a strut assembly without the lower spring seat. The lower spring seat P/N is 721065031, and this part is NLA. However, another member just bought Brat struts from Subaru and indicates that it included the lower spring seat. Awaiting clarification now.

Strut Thread

[Rampage]

Subaru's pictures are usually correct. It shows the spring perch on the shock and it is not offset like later models. It does not show it separate. Look at the names of other parts and it gets confusing, like the spring pads.

[aba4430]

Thanks, I need to look into this some more. If you see the link you provided, and go down that page, you will see the 4WD adjustable strut in a picture, similar to one in this link. I will go to the local dealer tomorrow and try to get clarification. If the lower seat is indeed included, then no issues at all.

[el_freddo]

If your struts have a hex nut shape at the top of them where the shaft comes out from, do not throw them away, they’re rebuildable! 

If they’re pressed on units at the top there, DO NOT attempt to open them as these are gas filled struts and cannot be rebuilt. 

With the rebuildable units, my issue is where to get new seals from - and to work out what weight oil to use in them. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[aba4430]

I wish I had kept my original struts (or at least the lower spring plates) when I replaced them several years ago, ~2004. The ones I have now (worn out) are the KYB 234028's. I have ordered Sachs 031172/031173 4WD struts from a local parts house. They said that if those are not the correct ones (they are EA82 4WD struts I believe), to bring them back. I will try and visually match them up. If they are a no-go, then I will spring for the Subaru struts and hope they include the lower spring support.

Separately, in discussions with Sach's CS last Thursday, the proper Sachs P/N is 317002 for the fronts (same L & R) and 317007 for the rear. CS said they were still available outside the US. Part of the ZF group is also TRW and Boge. The Boge front strut P/N for the  Brat (Brumby or MPV) is 30-P83-A. I have the TRW P/N's for the EA82 FWD models, if anyone is interested.