Zero compressioin EA82 Cyl #2

[Step-a-toe]

13 hours ago, rickyhils said:

YES. I did do a retension [re-torque] . I first took it out for a little test drive when it ran like crap at first, so it went up to temp. I did the retension it when the cam was off. And for the right side I have a ground down 17mm socket so I only need to remove the valve cover.   

The retension I did in the correct order starting at the centre bolt and then working around one by one in the correct expanding "box" formation. I put a dab of clean oil between the bolt head and the washer before tightening. Some bolts had that "jumping" little click when approaching the 47 ft/lb max. I did not want to open a "can of worms" and do a thread chase on each bolt. But, I know that steel against aluminum is a "no contest" situation. ha ha  . And, it was that left side bolt #8 [a corner bolt] that felt dodgy when I loosened it up. It took a little more pull on the wrench to work it out 2 or 3 turns and I was very concerned that I might have been pulling out some aluminum threads. But ALL GOOD as it went back to 47 ft/lb with none of that scary "give" in the feel of the wrench.  

And, I refused to wimp out and go to a real professional mechanic. In this case "tenatious" is my middle name. 12 years ago [on the removed EA82], I was 100% successful in stripping out one head bolt. [Bravo, Ricky!] . As luck would have it, the bolt hole was just the right size for a Heli-Coil thread tap. And, against better advice, I installed two (2) Heli coils into the depth of the hole and the engine was good-to-go. And, my lack of forethought also led to adding water improperly to that same engine when it overheated. I heard a metallic "TICK" and knew that I had just ruined the block. But after properly using CRC engine block sealer I was once again good to go, and that was 12 years and 150k miles ago.

Two of the main things that led to my car repairing history are 1.) It was either do-it-myself or junk the car. 2.) Once I got a little familiar with the workings of a Subaru car I had so much admiration for the quality and logic of the design and the solid construction that I made my mind up to keep going.

My trusted since 36 years , OMG ! that long ??

Machine shop guy let out a big NO, do not back them off first, you only just liked and tensioned them!

Just set torque and tighten. Loosening has given him failures. OK so I have done both ways until his big NO

[rickyhils]

Meaning that to retention is only to verify torque? So if I set wrench for 47 ft lb and it clicks, then that bolt is good-to-go? I did read somewhere that Subaru service says to back off and apply oil between bolt head and washer. But, maybe even Subaru changes their mind on these things. 

[rickyhils]

And not to question what you said. I just want to make sure that I see the situation correctly so I don't wander off and go breaking things. I can be the most clumsy mechanic at times when uninformed.

[silverhelme]

The other axle looks like an ea81 axle by the length of it.

[rickyhils]

EA81? . Thanks.

[Step-a-toe]

Question everything you read on the internet Ricky

Yep, all my manuals say back off, oil stuff, redo three stage retension , but discussion with local trusted Subaru parts manager of same loyalty to brand as machine shop old guy tells me the dealership did no slack off, oil then retension - but he may have been talking stretch bolt EJ stuff now I think about it  I found genuine EA82 gaskets take no more from a retorque after cool down.

Given it was machine shop guy giving warranty - I followed his advice. No problems EA82 specifically

[el_freddo]

On 5/16/2020 at 6:07 PM, rickyhils said:

"rocker straddling". That is the term that I learned from "el_freddo".

I you didn’t hear that from me, I’m sure it was Steptoe! 

As for retorquing headbolts, on the EA82 I would’ve literally put the torque wrench over the bolts to make sure they’re still at spec then left it at that. 

For the EJ head bolts - DO NOT retorque them. It’s very hard to determine their torque spec anyway since the last two (from memory) steps are to turn the headbolts 90 degrees and again without exceeding 180 degrees. But they’re not torque to yield bolts... dunno how that happens. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[rickyhils]

I test drove the rebuilt EA82 and then decided to advance the timing as there was a rough and clumsy idle. And, I proudly admit that I don't know what the heck I'm doing. ha ha. There was hesitation upon acceleration. The old EA82 disty was a few clicks advanced. This is same disty from old engine and I advanced it all the way. Next test drive it accelerated like it "wasn't too sure" of itself until maybe 3k rpm when things changed and there was a very noticeable increase in power, unlike anything I remember since I've had this Loyale since 2003. Did some guy try to hot rod this engine?

What causes that stuttering "putt-putt" sound from the exhaust? Could it possibly be from the SPFI throttle body gasket? Can I clamp off that small water hose to the back of the throttle body to test?

Thanks

[rickyhils]

Benny. Yeah,  I got New South Wales and Bendigo mixed up a bit.  Oh, I LIKE THAT BENDIGO from the looks of it.

And for that retension [retorque] I'll just confirm 47 ft/lbs with no backing off.

[rickyhils]

Step-a-toe.   I do have an extra set of FelPro Perma Torque HGs. They are fool proof. If any HG issues in coming months I'll re-do using the Perma Torques. And if it gets to that point I'll have chase all head bolt holes.

[idosubaru]

On 5/18/2020 at 7:39 PM, rickyhils said:

C/V axle reboot.  This looks like a good axle. All internal parts show no cracks or scrapes.  The cracked boot was caught in time and the inside still had the clean grease. I have the proper re-boot kit from EMPI. The other axle pictured here I got from Ebay a while back. Turns out it is not for FWD Loyale. The splines match up, but it is a little too short when extended, the inboard fitting looks different, the shaft is thicker, and the boot band recesses are in the wrong place.  What car is this axle for? It looks like it might be reputable reman perhaps.

That’s the norm and expected with OEM axles.

“reputable reman” HAHHAAAAa   LMAO.  I’d call it scrap, it’s not OEM  

Why do you think it’s too short?  The inner joint slides in and out so axles have length forgiveness. Are you saying it won’t install for a physically determinant reason or just that they’re different visually in extension?

Even OEM EA82 axles have quite a few differences - two different style joints and different shaft thicknesses and band demarcations, even if they’re interchangeable.  I wouldnt make too much of visibly different stock OEM EA axles. aftermarket always look different from stock as well. Determining what differences are OEM and what are aftermarket may not prove very useful.

theres a thread (or many) with pictures of different EA axles if you want to try to track it down   

Edited May 20, 2020 by idosubaru

[rickyhils]

The axle is shorter. When the inner was connected [w/ roll pin] it would not slide out far enough for the strut and steering knuckle to meet up. Someone says it is for EA81?

Edited May 20, 2020 by rickyhils

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, rickyhils said:

The axle is shorter. When the inner was connected [w/ roll pin] it would not slide out far enough for the strut and steering knuckle to meet up. Someone says it is for EA81?

Got it, you mean waaaaaay shorter, functionally shorter, not just a little shorter visually. 

[rickyhils]

Yeah. And the sliding mechanism on the inner was maxed all the way out.

[rickyhils]

And, What causes that irregular "putt-putt" sound from the exhaust? Could it possibly be from the SPFI throttle body gasket? Can I clamp off that small water hose to the back of the throttle body to test?

[rickyhils]

This morning did a retension of the head bolts. All were still at 47 ft/lbs . Yesterday all cylinders had 120 psi. Compression test done while engine was still up to temp.

[Step-a-toe]

Only 120 psi?

For comparison, my series one turbos have been 120 at op temp, fuel and spark fuses pulled and throttle fully open

Most of my NA have been 175-190 psi

My Series two turbo 150 psi

Comp tests are said to variable due to conditions but I never found the variation.

One of the quietest, smoothest, hard pulling EA82T revealed 60 psi in #3 120 the others....could not tell by its idle or performance....until up mountains where compression lost from #3 slipped past rings and assisted engine oil to escalate up the rear PCV baffle plate and push on to my intake and suck into combustion - James Bond style.

a catch can only made it worse , providing a hot, black oil bath on tap

[rickyhils]

Last week a COLD compression test read 125, 130, 135 then cyl #2 read ZERO w/ open exhaust valve. Got that sorted out.

Now there is a noticeable little "chunk chunk" sound on the left side. It is not cyclical and steady but a bit random. Revving the engine up to 3k rpm does not aggravate it. And when letting it quickly drop back down to idle there is no metal to metal "clinking" sound. I need to asses if it is either a bad connecting rod bearing [incorrect rebuild] or the cam shaft/ rockers/ valves.

Oil pressure is good.

The timing on the disty is exactly where it was on old engine. So, no ignition "ping".

Timing belts were checked. Left cam [driver side] UP and right cam DOWN while at /// timing mark. Then rotate CW to "0" degrees with rotor tip pointing to #1 [hill holder]

Edited May 21, 2020 by rickyhils

[idosubaru]

In my small rod knock/bottom end experience, random' isn't what i'm familiar with when it comes to rod knock.  i'd be suspicious of the area around the previously dislodged rocker arm, or of another one experiencing a similar issue to the first. 

[rickyhils]

idosubaru-   Yes. The sound is like a "chuch chuch" noise rather than a metal to metal solid "clink" sound that a rod might make. All things considered, I'm more happy that you suspect that same cam/rocker side. I just now triple checked that the timing belts and TDC "0" with rotor at #1 are correct.

I will take off the cam cover and have a look. FWIW yesterday I did a compression check and all 4 cyl read 120 psi. That check was when engine was still warm.

[idosubaru]

Ideally you can get it to make the noise while adjusting the throttle by hand to vary RPM's and have a stethoscope to narrow down timing area (front), valve train (sides), or something else. 

Timing bearings can make noise.  Idler bearings can make noise.  Alternator bearings can make noise.  Power steering and A/C too but less common and you have steering and A/C which should see commensurate levels of issues you're not describing.   I'd probably be thinking about ruling out or testing those bearings first. 

Test them by spinning them by hand or while engine is running and carefully touching the stethoscope to the mountain bolts or closest surfaces that aren't rotating.  ***But if it's not currently making any noise it might not exhibit definitive symptoms. 

There's a small shield under the bottom access cover of the bellhousing.  It's flimsy and can be bent or installed loose and strike the teeth on the flexplate/flywheel.

I'd also take note if it's getting worse or staying the same as you continue to drive it.  If it stays the same....but then starts getting worse in a month...that's an indicator to test it again if all your first tests struck out. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by idosubaru

[rickyhils]

Ideally you can get it to make the noise while adjusting the throttle by hand to vary RPM's and have a stethoscope to narrow down timing area (front), valve train (sides), or something else. 

Yes. Will get a stethoscope. But why is the idle so erratic? I will get new wires and rotor and cap.

Edited May 21, 2020 by rickyhils

[rickyhils]

Am going out now to get the stethoscope. And the cam is ok with plenty of oil getting in there. Rockers are in place on HLAs and valves..

[rickyhils]

I used the stethoscope. Nothing inside that sounds like a rod bearing. It sounds like the parts are working together reliably enough. I keep the revs below 3,500. I'll change the oil filter after a few hundred miles and, out of curiosity, cut it open and run a magnet over the elements. Just to keep tabs on it.

It is running stronger than the old EA82 with 327k miles on it. As stated before, it was found locally on Craigslist for $100. Unknown who did the rebuild. And the new clutch is working ok.

Part of it is that I was imaging problems that were not real problems. Different from you guys with all that experience.

 

[DaveT]

This description - The sound is like a "chuch chuch"  - makes think small exhaust leak.