Valve spring installed upside down

[Rampage]

When I do a compression test, I use a push button switch wired from the battery to the starter solenoid. No need to pull the fuel pump fuse or disable the ignition coil because the key is not used.

Remove all spark plugs and block open the throttle. The engine cranks easier and faster and is easier on the battery. Also, (not in your case, but down the road) if there is a leak in the head gasket between two adjacent cylinders both of them will read low and leak down. Hook up a battery charger if the battery is questionable.

Normally I do 3 pumps per cylinder for a reading. Sometimes I do it again with only 1 pump per cylinder, just to nit pick.

If you do pull the head and remove the valves, stand the valves up and compare length, groves for the keepers and the grind. Also compare the grind on the valve seats.

[rickyhils]

idosubaru 

I don't have any idea on how new rings would "break in ". Have heard that doing heavy acceleration several times will ensure good seating of the rings.

And on cyl compression: For SPFI FWD what are the typical numbers? I am aware of the need to each cyl reading be close to the others.

[rickyhils]

Rampage   I will try those things.  Was not aware that better to open throttle body during comp test. Others have said that here, but I forgot to do that.  And will follow the method of standing the valves up as you mentioned. And will definitely compare the grind on the valve seats. I will spend a good amount of time on examining and I'll post some measurements and a few pics. I don't want to hurry that along at all.

 I have to go slowly and take notes and make a check list. And I'll keep track of which cyl each valve was in. I can also take a look at old engine valves for some casual comparison.

[Step-a-toe]

If you like Ricky, use my colour code system for marking bits from each cylinder

I use coloured cable ties

One use red...remembered by 3 letters each word, one red

Two blue, rhymes and blue has one more letter than red

Three green, both got ee and green one more letter than blue

Four yellow coz yellow one more letter again

Cable ties great for quick labelling with dirty hands or gloves, degreaser won't disolve as can marker or coloured tape. Great to tie to rockers, around HVLA, marking posts on dizzy caps and both ends of ht leads or even just both ends of vac tubes to be disconnected for tear down

I add a white tie for inlet coz white is clean like inlet

Black for dirty exhaust bits

So a rocker with a blue tie and white tie is #2 inlet

[Step-a-toe]

23 hours ago, rickyhils said:

Step-a-toe

When you pass the five month mark, I shall hand my determination-with-EA82 award over to you Ricky

Now you may have just convinced me to junk my Loyale and scout around for a Mazda 1300 TC. (I wonder if it would pass California smog?)

This is not any argument from me as I see full well your point. And what I have is a far cry from a factory assembly in Japan 30 years ago. I liked your Mazda story as it rings true in all of us in our own way.

Now, the comp ranges were too varied. Then even with Cyl#4 up and running and valves good to go, I could possibly have a rough idle due to uneven compression?

I have said before somewhere that I had an EA82T I got cheap, was nice and quiet, strongest and best power delivery I have had in flat manifold form, nice smooth idle

So I was surprised to find its comps to be 120,120,120,60

60 and great engine, no hint in performance or idle just blow by issues.

Still deep in shed as a short motor waiting for me to tear down to find stuck rings I suppose. Got it on Miss 15s second birthday so better pull a finger out ...

[ferp420]

do you know the history of the engine has.there been any major valve train work a valve thats been ground down to far would.sit higher in the seat its posable the hlas are at there max traval and they might be binding a bit

but if i had to guess i would say you droped a valve seat maybe 2 if the engine got hot ever i would say thats the issue being that there is so much room between the head and the piston its vary posable for it to run like that and as the seat moves around your comprestion would change

if it is a valve seat i only know 2 ways to fix it have a machine shop install a slightly larger seat vary exspensive or find a used head and freshen it up

used heads are getting harder to find as we ea82 owners hoard our spare parts for the simple fact that there getting harder to find this is pretty much a dead platform from a new parts perspective

there is always the ej option if you are realy atatched to the car if not pull the tailights headlights and turn signals and oil pump and make them available to others who are fighting the good fight with the ea82 and scrap the car

[ferp420]

opps double post lol

Edited June 8, 2020 by ferp420

[ferp420]

i just push on the valve springs if i cant get my wait behind it then ill brace off my wrist against the frame rails also my loyale have a 4" crossmember drop so i have more room to work in if for some reason i run in to a stuburn spring ill use a box end wrench and wedge it between what ever i can usualy a rocker arm stud or bolt hole and put pressure on one side or the other and drop 1 keeper in at a time

taking them out is as simple as placing a square kiss in just the right spot using a hammer and a socket

ive been able to compress most single spring valve springs by hand i dont use tools unless its a double spring or high performance high rpm spring set

 

[Step-a-toe]

1 minute ago, ferp420 said:

i just push on the valve springs if i cant get my wait behind it then ill brace off my wrist against the frame rails also my loyale have a 4" crossmember drop so i have more room to work in if for some reason i run in to a stuburn spring ill use a box end wrench and wedge it between what ever i can usualy a rocker arm stud or bolt hole and put pressure on one side or the other and drop 1 keeper in at a time

taking them out is as simple as placing a square kiss in just the right spot using a hammer and a socket

ive been able to compress most single spring valve springs by hand i dont use tools unless its a double spring or high performance high rpm spring set

 

EA are double spring ferp

[ferp420]

39 minutes ago, Step-a-toe said:

EA are double spring ferp

are you sure its been a while since i did my head work i must be thinking v8 double springs  but i still install my subaru springs by hand

i have 3set of heads im working on now ej set one ford deisel set and one cheavy diesel set lol its been years since ive even looked at a ea82 head

Edited June 8, 2020 by ferp420

[ferp420]

On 6/6/2020 at 11:47 PM, Step-a-toe said:

My Mazda 1300 TC determination trophy was back in 1989.....went through four engine tear downs to get it right. I was already king of brown window silicone for gaskets. 

 

it dident take me 5 months but my ea82m was in and out more times than i can count when i was exsperamenting with home made copper headgaskets

damb i miss that engine

Edited June 8, 2020 by ferp420

[rickyhils]

8 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

If you like Ricky, use my colour code system for marking bits from each cylinder

I use coloured cable ties

Very good. The logic is foolproof.  Red1 Blue2 Green3 Yellow4. Good mnemonics there. And sticky tape gets gummy and messy.

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

EA are double spring ferp

EA82 are single spring - One spring let valve.  Two springs per cylinder but that’s still one spring per valve. 
 

[idosubaru]

your compression numbers need checked or you’re just guessing.   You shouldn’t get that large of a variation.  

150ish is spec. Technically it’s dependent on engine RPM. 

each cylinder should be within 20%, 120 is exactly 20% less than 150 but that may be closer depending on testing accuracy. 

[rickyhils]

2 hours ago, ferp420 said:

do you know the history of the engine . . .

if the engine got hot . .

if it is a valve seat . . .

used heads are getting harder to find . . . dead platform from a new parts perspective.

there is always the ej option . . .

and make them available to others . . .and scrap the car

-History unknown.Seller had no info.

-I was first to run the engine after rebuild. Rebuild had only assembly lube with no oil. No heat issue.

-Will look at valve seats.

-I have an extra head or two.

- No ej for this car. California smog check issue. Also wiring nightmare.

- IF ever scrapped, will make those parts available.

[rickyhils]

EA82 valve springs. Closer winding is towards engine. [I learned THAT the hard way]

[rickyhils]

1 hour ago, idosubaru said:

your compression numbers need checked or you’re just guessing.   You shouldn’t get that large of a variation.  
150ish is spec. Technically it’s dependent on engine RPM. each cylinder should be within 20%, 120 is exactly 20% less than 150 but that may be closer depending on testing accuracy. 

Yeah. I didn't do it correctly. Thanks for giving the spec.

Edited June 8, 2020 by rickyhils

[rickyhils]

18 hours ago, Rampage said:

18 hours ago, Rampage said:

 Sometimes I do it again with only 1 pump per cylinder, just to nit pick.

I'll use that extra pump method.

 

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, rickyhils said:

EA82 valve springs. Closer winding is towards engine. [I learned THAT the hard way]

What is that off of?  Are all EA82s are like this?  I’m not home but I don’t think I’ve ever seen any like this.  I’ve got a few heads and engines at home I’ll look and see if that jogs my memory  

another thread says they’re all the same.  Weird.  This is an artifact of them being too old and rusted away around here so I’ve forgotten now that I don’t work on them much any more or there is some difference. I’ve worked on mostly XTs maybe they’re different.

Edited June 8, 2020 by idosubaru

[rickyhils]

1 hour ago, idosubaru said:

What is that off of?  Are all EA82s are like this?  I’m not home but I don’t think I’ve ever seen any like this.  I’ve got a few heads and engines at home I’ll look and see if that jogs my memory   

 

These valve springs pictured are from a salvage yard EA82 (SPFI) . I don't recall what model. I also bagged the distributor which has the crank position sensor, if that helps identify the model or year.

However, I just checked the recently removed EA82 from my 1991 Loyale. It does have those reverse wind inner valve springs.

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, rickyhils said:

These valve springs pictured are from a salvage yard EA82 (SPFI) . I don't recall what model. I also bagged the distributor which has the crank position sensor, if that helps identify the model or year.

However, I just checked the recently removed EA82 from my 1991 Loyale. It does have those reverse wind inner valve springs.

Yeah man I saw pictures online of them and another thread mentioning that many (all?) EA82's have them.   I'll check my stuff when I get a chance, XT6's are definitely single spring, maybe all XT's are an i've just done too many EJ's since then and have forgotten. 

[rickyhils]

Have heard that double reverse valve spring was in theory a way to reduce vibration.  Now, did EA81 have them? If not then maybe the same brains behind the OHC was behind this "doubled reversed" spring.

[Step-a-toe]

9 hours ago, idosubaru said:

EA82 are single spring - One spring let valve.  Two springs per cylinder but that’s still one spring per valve.

Had me believing internet fibs for a short, confused moment

[Step-a-toe]

Yep, Ricky, EA81 have them as well. Dare say EA71 as well, don't have any experience

[Step-a-toe]

6 hours ago, idosubaru said:

What is that off of?  Are all EA82s are like this?  I’m not home but I don’t think I’ve ever seen any like this.  I’ve got a few heads and engines at home I’ll look and see if that jogs my memory  

another thread says they’re all the same.  Weird.  This is an artifact of them being too old and rusted away around here so I’ve forgotten now that I don’t work on them much any more or there is some difference. I’ve worked on mostly XTs maybe they’re different.

Ido, when you said learnt the hard way about springs up the wrong way....what symptoms did you have ???