rickyhils Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) These stains remain after an hour of scrubbing with carb spray, plastic scraper, shop paper towel, and MORE carb spray. From what I saw on this engine before it was installed was some brownish sealant at the water jacket area where the previous gasket was visible at the edges. I cannot catch any of these stain marks with my fingernail and all is finger smooth. So it is some kind of stain on the aluminum . A shown here, the rebuilder chose to add sealant at the water jacket areas. Also between the cylinders. I have a Felpro Permatorque gasket ready to go. EA82 non-turbo. Edited June 11, 2020 by rickyhils add pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionstorm66 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I would try scotch Brite under a stone to buff them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Step-a-toe Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) I have ever only once not surfaced Subaru heads before new head gaskets - lasted three months before it started choofing in coolant. Just made it home. EA81 of unknown background sat eight years, I sorted it, then let it sit six months when fresh fuel leached out gums and varnishes from inside fuel tank walls This stuck up valves, caused to pushrods to bend, so new gaskets and went well, pulled strong, was quiet, then all of a sudden.... Stains ?? The least of your worry surely? Edited June 11, 2020 by Step-a-toe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I use a thick 4" putty knife (with a flat edge) (not sharp like a knife) to scrape the surface and stay as flat as possible on the surface. The most important thing is a flat surface. If the surface is flat with a straight edge now, and you work at those "stains" you will end up making depressions in the surface. Previously, if there were depressions in the surface, the gasket or sealer filled them. So, if those "stains" are not protruding from the surface and it is flat, you're good to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Stained, yes. And this block surface is Smooth to the touch. I can not feel anything. Nothing catches by fingernail At All. No protrusions. The head cleaned up nice. This head has no overheating issues or flatness issues. Removed from engine only to check valve condition. The sealant compound was not needed and that is what caused the stains. Edited June 11, 2020 by rickyhils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) those stains are head gasket residue the head probably isent flat or it would be more even check out this thread on diy head resurfacing cant hurt anything to give it a try ive had realy good luck doing this my self and not much different than how we did it in the shop in the olden days Edited June 11, 2020 by ferp420 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) i'd resurface it, you can do it yourself easily for cheap and quick, no machine shop or days of drop off/pick up needed. every one i've ever done has high and low spots so i wouldn't want to skip the step. for a long term seal through combustion chamber temp heat cycling, vibrations/expansions/contractions, and seasonal temperature variations I'd prefer ideal surfaces, particularly since it's so easy to accomplish. that being said - i would bet you can install it just fine without any issues, or no immediate issues anyway. i think years ago i've installed some like that before without any short term issues. Edited June 11, 2020 by idosubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I use the post apocalyptic resurfacing method to get rid of the marks from the fire rings. That us #1 priority. By then, the rest should be clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Thanks for the info. Head looks clean and has no overheating issues. Recent operation had no issue at all on ability to seal. Only purpose for removal was to triple check valve condition. Stains ONLY on engine surface where [questionable use of] brown colored sealant made contact AT WATER JACKET AREAS ONLY. Compression sealing will be ok. Purpose of my OP here is to hear from you guys as you've "been there-done that" . My experience is that I once put gaskets on the removed EA82. That was back in in 2008 and after 160,00 miles they held up just fine. But doing it the first time and being successful is still no substitute for previous experience. Sometime we noobies "get lucky" and become over confidant. I will be installing head now. Felpro Permatorque . *** Old Gloyale post said finish up this final sequence: Go to 45 ft/lb. Back off 90deg. Retorque to 45 ft/lb . Then a final 90deg. I can see how this should bring a more reliable final clamping pressure, rather than just relying on what the torque wrench says. I have a salvaged engine I can practice on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, DaveT said: I use the post apocalyptic resurfacing method to get rid of the marks from the fire rings. That us #1 priority. By then, the rest should be clean. DaveT- Yes. That is the ONLY way to be sure of the head. However, on the block surface at the fire rings I can only give it my best shot with carb spray, plastic scraper, and paper shop towel. I'll work on that for 30 minutes and then I will have to call it quits and go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, rickyhils said: DaveT- Yes. That is the ONLY way to be sure of the head. However, on the block surface at the fire rings I can only give it my best shot with carb spray, plastic scraper, and paper shop towel. I'll work on that for 30 minutes and then I will have to call it quits and go with it. Sounds like resurface is out of the question, in all likelihood it'll be fine. i've rolled with them like that before. I wouldn't put any additional effort into cleaning or removing that discoloration than what you've described if resurfacing isn't an option. Definitely don't wire wheel it or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Idosubaru- First - Let it be said that we all highly value the advice from DaveT. However in my present situation I can only go with it as is, so your advice is as reasonable and practical as any at this point. The fire rings are not "deep" as they barely catch the fingernail. I'll do ft/lb sequence 22, 37, 55. Then, I'll just drive the car and CHECK COOLANT AND OIL every chance I get. A side note: As far as the ancient EA82 goes- here is a FWIW comment. On a junk EA82 block I tested some head bolt torque amounts. I worked up to 70 ft/lbs, with the bolt coming back out clean with no aluminum pulled. AND - One of the bolt holes was Heli-coiled 12 years [160,000 miles] ago and it went to 70ft/lbs just fine. And, against all good advice I installed two [2] coils in that same hole. I carefully measured so that there was a gap between them. AND - the stock EA82 head bolt hole accepted the Heli-coil tap without need to drill. At the time it was either take a chance or junk the car. The new threads were cut without a snag. don't we love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 you can surface the block the same way you do the heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, ferp420 said: you can surface the block the same way you do the heads Are you saying while engine is in the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 12 hours ago, rickyhils said: Are you saying while engine is in the car? that would get tricky in the car you could do it but gravity wont help in the car take the engine out its easy enuff i used to change motors for my smog test the mongral had to come out and the stocker back in with stock exhaust then after the smog test back in with the monster and custom exhaust its kinda like doing a tune up its so easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The block hasn't usually needed as much. I have a piece of flat aluminum channel I wrap the sandpaper around, and use that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionstorm66 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Block is much much thicker, and under almost no stress in a direction than can effect head sealing. The engine literally trys to blow the head off, and it's only held down by the head bolts. Plus it needs holes for intake/exhaust, cam placement, etc. That's why 2 stroke heads almost never fail. They only need to hold a sparkplug, plus maybe some cooling. I would never put heads back on without atleast a quick stoning. If that shows any unevenness then I would level them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, ferp420 said: 41 minutes ago, Ionstorm66 said: I would never put heads back on without at least a quick stoning. If that shows any unevenness then I would level them. The left head was sealing ok. Only reason for removal was to verify condition of the valves. After lots of cleaning with carb spray, plastic scraper, and paper shop towel I just put the head back on. Edited June 12, 2020 by rickyhils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 7 hours ago, DaveT said: The block hasn't usually needed as much. I have a piece of flat aluminum channel I wrap the sandpaper around, and use that. So, I imagine that the channel should be 11'' x 7'' for flat coverage. End with 320 grit? Have read that a shallow fire ring might be ok, meaning only slightly noticeable using fingernails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 @GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 No the aluminum channel is only 2" wide. It's long enough to span the width plus a bit. The idea is just to touch any high spot, or stuck crud. I don't try to remove a lot of material. Make sure you hit all areas evenly. The ones I have done have not been bad. The headgasket seals against the steel cylinder wall, as opposed ro the aluminum on the head side, so there should be less imprint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyhils Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, DaveT said: No the aluminum channel is only 2" wide. It's long enough to span the width plus a bit. The idea is just to touch any high spot, or stuck crud. I don't try to remove a lot of material. Make sure you hit all areas evenly. The ones I have done have not been bad. The headgasket seals against the steel cylinder wall, as opposed ro the aluminum on the head side, so there should be less imprint. OK. And any need to remove block dowel pins? And. I see you are electronics engineer. I fixed the EGR cel code 34 by changing out a transistor array chip inside ecu. Dummy load 35 ohms worked but then down the line the chip failed. So, will try 80 ohm 5 watt dummy load. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 You need a 5watt resistor for 40 ohms @ 12V, especially when you account for the ambient temperature. I never used a resistor. I found that Toyota solenoids from the same era are much more reliable - I am still running the same ones I got at a scrap yard in the late 80's. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 The dowel pins, I didn't remove, just work around / avoid them. The blocks I've dealt with barely needed anything. I just used 220 grit, and count strokes if you have to, so you don't over do one area. Use single edge razor blades or utility knife blades perpendicular as scrapers to get the gasket junk off without shaving aluminum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 white roloc disc for aluminum blocks, don’t hit it hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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