Can our electronic distributor bypass ecu, or do I need a points distributor?

[LoyalLion]

Hey there! My son and I took an intake manifold from an ea81 and put it on his '90 Loyale's ea82 with a new Webber carb. We installed a new fuel pump as well.

The electronic ignition kit that we ordered does not fit in the original distributor. It's made to adapt a points distributor.

The Original distributor from the throttle body injection is integrated into the ECU, so we assumed it needed to be converted or replaced.

Now im wondering if the original one can be used independent of the ECU.

There are 4 wires coming from it. 2 black, one red, one white.

Is there a way to wire it into the coil and ignition circuit, or should we start looking for a points distributor?

Thanks very much in advance for any consideration and input! 

 

[DaveT]

I am fairly certain that in the original EA82 setup, the signals from the distributor go to the ECU, and it adjusts the timing of the signal that fires the coil.  The ECU takes care of advance / retard / RPM & emission / temperature  based tweaking.

For a carb conversion, I am pretty sure you will need a vacuum advance, so an older points type distributor.
 

[Step-a-toe]

A few options

I have never had, seen or heard of points dizzy EA82

So unless our markets very different, your kit is for EA81 1982 or 1983, maybe early 1984

I have had EA82 fwd carby sedan with a Hitachi two wire module  with vacuum can, just hooks up to coil. Shared same module as EA81. No ecu hook up or dependence

I have also run a Denso EA82 dizzy as seen on the first XT MPFi in USA , same as our 87 carby models got. Again, two wires to coil, vacuum can on its side. No ecu hook up or dependence.

For those of us never seen spfi dizzy...can you load a pic of it with cap off and maybe part number stamp or label please?

Ok, you made use of what you had...no EA82 carb inlets?

I hear spfi ran higher comp , could be an interesting result with the Weber. Usual 32/36 or 38/38?

Edited July 4, 2020 by Step-a-toe

[LoyalLion]

Thank you both. We are new to this. I've had dozens of old full sized jeeps but tgis is our first experience dealing with firiegn motors, throttle-body, and ECU for the most part.

The intake which held the throttle body was not accepting of the carb. Wrong openning and at a steep angle.

I see now from what you're saying about tge vacuum advance that we will need a points distributor from an ea81. I wasn't sure if points ever were used on ea82 or not.

The distributor we have won't help us. It is integrated in an ECU which we are committed to bypassing.

I'm tryimg to upload photos but the files are too large. I'm not sure there's anythung of particular value in the photos anyway.

 

[LoyalLion]

It is the 32/36 carb, in a kit allegedly made for ea82.

 

[LoyalLion]

This project began when the car would not start and we were unable to diagnose the issue.

We purchased a used replacement ECU but that did not help. We purchased an 88 wagon for parts but that's throttle body as well.

We intend to take the 5 speed manual transmission and low range transfer case out of the wagon and drop them in his 90 sedan as well. But first we have to get it running and the distributor is our current obstacle.

[Step-a-toe]

EA81 dizzy will not swap properly I don't think. EA82 are modified to work in EA81 though so maybe some work your EA81 will fit and work reliably.

Many appear to EJ swap their EA82 bodies so put up a want thread for dizzy

Look up user Tweety on ausubaru.com.au

He had an adapter plate made to level up the spfi intake and adapt a 38/38 Weber

Bennie may have an easy link to pics?

 

 

[GeneralDisorder]

You will have to source an EA82 carb distributor. The fuel injection distributor is not capable of running a coil. It is only a cap and rotor with a crank angle sensor in it - there is no provision for triggering the coil or adjusting timing. 

It would have been much easier and better overall to just fix the fuel injection. The old hillbilly carb swap trick is not the hot ticket here. Leave that for Billy Bob and his cousin Skillet. I suggest you put it back to stock and do the proper troubleshooting to effect repairs on the FI. 

EA82's did not use "points" distributors - In fact neither did the EA81. You have to go back to the EA71 of the 1970's to find an actual "points and condenser" unit. Same with the US manufacturers - which by the late 70's had gone away from points and to electronic solid state ignition. Exactly how old are the Jeeps you are working on? You might want to step back from the Fuel Injection or get yourself some education on the subject. 

GD

Edited July 4, 2020 by GeneralDisorder

[el_freddo]

9 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

I suggest you put it back to stock and do the proper troubleshooting to effect repairs on the FI. 

Especially since you have a spare vehicle for parts etc. learn how to read the codes from the ECU - it might just TELL you what it needs. 

Also check your cam belts are intact and properly aligned. One cam should be at 12 o’clock and the other at 6 o’clock when the crank is at either of these positions. 

@Step-a-toe - here’s the link, but all photofucket photos are no longer available 

https://ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=24721 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Step-a-toe]

7 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

You will have to source an EA82 carb distributor. The fuel injection distributor is not capable of running a coil. It is only a cap and rotor with a crank angle sensor in it - there is no provision for triggering the coil or adjusting timing. 

It would have been much easier and better overall to just fix the fuel injection. The old hillbilly carb swap trick is not the hot ticket here. Leave that for Billy Bob and his cousin Skillet. I suggest you put it back to stock and do the proper troubleshooting to effect repairs on the FI. 

EA82's did not use "points" distributors - In fact neither did the EA81. You have to go back to the EA71 of the 1970's to find an actual "points and condenser" unit. Same with the US manufacturers - which by the late 70's had gone away from points and to electronic solid state ignition. Exactly how old are the Jeeps you are working on? You might want to step back from the Fuel Injection or get yourself some education on the subject. 

GD

Well, some EA81 got points and condenser Kettering ignition in some parts of the world. I had two and sold them to a guy who loved the basics of having the system let you down, then pull out spare items, set things right and keep on rolling

i hear GDs opinion , good learning curve especially with the help you can get in here. But, I also wanna see how the higher comp goes with your Weber. Learn old school carbides, progress to fuelies .....

[GeneralDisorder]

The US never got an EA81 with a points type distributor. 

GD

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

On 7/4/2020 at 5:39 PM, GeneralDisorder said:

You will have to source an EA82 carb distributor...

I agree, the best bet is to source a Distributor for the Carbureted version of the EA82 engine, nothing else.

 

As the member LoyalLion wrote:

On 7/4/2020 at 9:13 AM, LoyalLion said:

...We are new to this...

He is new to this, so I'll share here some basic information that might help him:

The Carbureted EA82 engines coupled from factory to 2WD transmissions, came with Nippon-Denso distributors.

While the Carbureted EA82 engines, coupled from factory to 4WD transmissions, came with Hitachi distributors...

Nippon-Denso units have a faster advance curve than the Hitachi counterparts, Also, Nippon-Densos allows you to use an aftermarket ignition coil with average resistance values; while the Hitachis requires their own ignition coil, because going too low or too high in resistance values on the coil, gets a burnt ignition module, faster. Ignition module is what the distributor has inside, instead on points.

Furthermore: Nippon-Denso units are reliable and simplistic, easy to service distributors, they uses an easy clip-on by hand cap and the rotor goes pushed down also by hand only; while the Hitachi counterparts has lousy screws, specially the infamous rotor screw which is the culprit of many horror stories of people being left stranded in the midle of nowhere by a loose rotor screw. I preffer Nippon-Densos any day, in my own humble opinion, they're way far better for many reasons.

I hope this Helps; Kind Regards.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo
misspelled word

[Step-a-toe]

Well, I run a Hitachi fuel injection EA82 distributor and no fuel injection, no fuel injection ECU

I essentially run a "carburettor" , an Impco propane carburettor or mixer.

I also run a turbo in the mix.

I have also run the same dizzy Hitachi 4 wire on NA EA82 but the advance curve makes driving about as exciting as my driving experience in a boxy, automatic mid 70's Volvo !!

The first series XT EA82 were MPFi not spfi

They ran a Nippon Denso two wire distributor in the US we recently discussed. Seen the same here. FWIW it looks just like the EA82 carby dizzy ND that we got here

So you can run an injection dizzy, just not an spfi dizzy without extra stuff - some use signals from the optical dizzies to run aftermarket controls for spark and/or fuel

Same goes for the series 2 MPFi optical insides dizzies

Interchanging EA82 dizzies into EA81 has involved cutting off the bottom of the shaft which is a support, like a gearbox input shaft sitting in the pilot bearing of a flywheel, no bearing, just an oil supplied bushing cast into the cambox. I recall instruction was also to swap drive cog and or its pin position.Cut off one of the EA82 hold down ears

To put an EA81 dizzy in EA82 cam box it would not have the shaft support bushing in the cam box. It might all just work, even with one hold down ear - but for how long?

Edited July 5, 2020 by Step-a-toe

[GeneralDisorder]

6 minutes ago, Step-a-toe said:

Well, I run a Hitachi fuel injection EA82 distributor and no fuel injection, no fuel injection ECU

I essentially run a "carburettor" , an Impco propane carburettor or mixer

The first series XT EA82 were MPFi not spfi

They ran a Nippon Denso two wire distributor in the US we recently discussed. Seen the same here. FWIW it looks just like the EA82 carby dizzy ND that we got here

The 1985 EA82 MPFI, and I believe also the 85 EA82T used an electronic distributor with a separate knock sensor and ignition control module just like the EA81T. Good luck finding any of that stuff in the US anymore. It's all been crushed and is entirely unsupported with replacement parts..... of course so are the rest of the EA82 parts with things like engine oil pumps being essentially impossible to source. Hopefully this will result in the EA82's dying off eventually so we don't have to keep telling people they are a terrible investment and basically a dead end due to lack of parts support. 

GD

[Step-a-toe]

18 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

The 1985 EA82 MPFI, and I believe also the 85 EA82T used an electronic distributor with a separate knock sensor and ignition control module just like the EA81T. Good luck finding any of that stuff in the US anymore. It's all been crushed and is entirely unsupported with replacement parts..... of course so are the rest of the EA82 parts with things like engine oil pumps being essentially impossible to source. Hopefully this will result in the EA82's dying off eventually so we don't have to keep telling people they are a terrible investment and basically a dead end due to lack of parts support. 

GD

Not seen any non turbo EA82 with knock sensors, but the 85&86 turbo got this dizzy that I would not recommend you try to use. But you are welcome to send me their module

There is a US based member in here that has a secret personal use only supply of these units to keep his ever faithful EA82T on the road.

To the OP , don't mind GDs opinion, just heed his warnings, he has good knowledge on EA82 and some bad experiences

Never let EA82 extend oil and filter changes, never let them get hot - if need be use elusive twin core EA82 radiator or adapt EA81 radiator as they are all twin core.

Keep EGR clean, keep PCV clean

Fit new timing belt kit every 40,000 miles

When my dizzy module dies I plan to do the Ford EDIS4 distributorless ignition. Like my EA82 that much

Edited July 5, 2020 by Step-a-toe

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

8 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

... Keep EGR clean...

Even Better, Cap close it.

Kind Regards.

[LoyalLion]

We are learning a lot here! Super grateful for all the info. We purchased a distributor online for a 1983 4wd GL sedan.

The part number 31-810.

Our next task is finding a cap and rotor as well as What seems to be a plug that will extend the wires out of the distributor.

I'm running in circles trying to figure out what that wire/plug is.

Also, if im reading the thread correctly, then We will need a specific coil for this distributor, correct? 

Forgive our ignorance. We are just learning!

 

[GeneralDisorder]

That's an EA81 distributor. You need an '85 to '87 EA82 carb model distributor.

The one you have there has the wrong drive gear and only a single mounting ear that will not line up with the adjustment bolt. 

GD

Edited July 26, 2020 by GeneralDisorder

[LoyalLion]

5 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

That's an EA81 distributor. You need an '85 to '87 EA82 carb model distributor.

The one you have there has the wrong drive gear and only a single mounting ear that will not line up with the adjustment bolt. 

GD

Gotcha. It looks like the drive gears can be swapped. But I see what you mean about the mounting ears. It's certainly all a lesson in patience. Thought for certain this wasfrom an ea82. We used an 83 4wd GL as a hypothetical model when searching.

Is there a year and model that I'd be sure had a carburated ea82 in it?

[GeneralDisorder]

The EA81 was produced from 80 to 89, but was only used in mainstream models from 80 to 84. The EA82 wasn't even introduced till 1985, and you should be using a 1985 GL Wagon with a 2 barrel Hitachi carb as your base for ordering parts. Nothing from an 83 will fit an EA82 in a 90 Loyale. 

Swapping the drive gear will require drilling a new roll-pin hole in the distributor shaft. It would be much easier to just acquire the correct distributor.

GD

Edited July 26, 2020 by GeneralDisorder

[LoyalLion]

Thank you man. That's so helpful

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

12 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

... The EA82 wasn't even introduced till 1985 ...

Mid 1984 to be exactly.

Edit: here's an Example: 

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122906-the-awesome-older-generation-picture-thread/?page=63&tab=comments#comment-1141474

 

 

13 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

That's an EA81 distributor. You need an '85 to '87 EA82 carb model distributor...

I Agree.

Good Luck.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[Step-a-toe]

Now, now Jes...I am led to believe the first 1985 models started in August 1984. We had a 1984 EA82 L Series 4WD wagon that had old motorbike style adjustable shocks on the rear, twist and release to next stop. Three positions !

I admit never tried to fit an EA81 dizzy to work in EA82 

It might actually work ! But when used to be talk of going other way involved cog swap. Maybe dizzy drive cogs not compatible between models ??

One lock down bolt often only found on some neglected EA82s.

Using 1983 got you unstuck there for EA82 match up

Keep at it

[LoyalLion]

The project is going great. It's taken some time and money but we did get the correct distributor by using an 85 GL as our hypothetical vehicle.

Neither the distributor nor the cap came with a pigtail/wiring harness to go from the distributor to the coil.

There are two terminals side by side inside the distributor where a plug should attach.

I've built a plug and pigtail out of wire and silicon but I need to know which of the two terminals is positive.

The one closer to the front or rear of the vehicle?

Thanks again in advance!

[Step-a-toe]

Rather than describe position in relation to vehicle,

Maybe add a photo of the module and peeps can suggest which terminal in pic goes where.

In EA models there tends to be yellow wires and black wires to the coil.

I only had one EA82 dizzy with that 2 pin module that I borrowed to get a stranded EA81 running urgently so can't help