ShawnW Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 How do you do this and what is involved for parts? Car is an 81 GL Wagon, ea81 with ext VR and want to move to the more commonly available parts....maybe even xt6 alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenongod Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 How do you do this and what is involved for parts? Car is an 81 GL Wagon, ea81 with ext VR and want to move to the more commonly available parts....maybe even xt6 alternator. Hello everyone...the reason why Shawn posted is because he cares for Diamond. In fact...he and Joy came by today to chat to some Denverites and have a gander at my Subaru which has some strange issues. Number one...it has become obsolete to Subaru and they no longer produce genuine parts for it. So...I now rely on aftermarket non-Subaru parts which sometimes either cause more damage...catch fire...or just don't work at all. The gremlins have full control now in my wagon...it even killed the alternator supposedly. I have posted my story a couple times and the answer lies basically in eliminating the voltage regulator from the fuel pump controler and going straight to the battery/switched it will run finally...and ask Shawn...it sounds super-tight. With it running now...I am not getting any charge from the alternator...just running off what the battery has stored. I tried another rebuilt alternator which stated on it that it was for an external voltage regulator...but it did not work whatsoever. Shawn and I tried another VR I had...same thing...still no charge. Either I need some genuine Subaru parts (VR and alternator)...or I need to some customizing to make it into an internally regulated alternator. The local Subaru dealer can't get me the parts needed..so now I am asking fellow Subaru fans to help me find them...or...let me know what I need to do to get this all to work by customizing. Another question: How can it be that when bench tested...the alternator now in the car was putting out 13+ Volts...and now is just a part of the circuit with no charging? and another: How easy is it to fry an alternator and VR? Would a short cause these to fail so easily? The fuel pump works..even had a spare that worked too..the car runs...but now no charge. We powered the fuel pump by an existing switch that was being used to run my fogs..but now is my fuel switch and is working fine. All of the idiot lights are coming on and the guage also shows no charging...just shows what the VOM shows...a little below 12V in the battery now. Truly flabbergasting...Shawn and I called it a day and went inside to cool off and still both had blank shell shocked faces because the gremlins got the best of us. Kudos to you Shawn...you are awesome and soon to become a neighbor and great asset to the Subaru community here in Denver, Colorado. Hope your trip back is safe and smooth. So...after being out of the loop for some time...Diamond and I have an irresistable urge to be back on the road again with fellow Subaru drivers. Thank you ahead of time for your help. Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole098 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Say there is a alternator shop that rebuilds alternators about 35 miles south of me... Should I see if they could rebuild a old one???? What year is it 82??? Oh I like that cool picture in your threads of the center light coming on... It would be cool to have that for my desktop background. Joe Hello everyone...the reason why Shawn posted is because he cares for Diamond. In fact...he and Joy came by today to chat to some Say what about having a shop rebuild your alternator???? There is a alternator shop 35 miles south of me .. Joe Denverites and have a gander at my Subaru which has some strange issues. Number one...it has become obsolete to Subaru and they no longer produce genuine parts for it. So...I now rely on aftermarket non-Subaru parts which sometimes either cause more damage...catch fire...or just don't work at all. The gremlins have full control now in my wagon...it even killed the alternator supposedly. I have posted my story a couple times and the answer lies basically in eliminating the voltage regulator from the fuel pump controler and going straight to the battery/switched it will run finally...and ask Shawn...it sounds super-tight. With it running now...I am not getting any charge from the alternator...just running off what the battery has stored. I tried another rebuilt alternator which stated on it that it was for an external voltage regulator...but it did not work whatsoever. Shawn and I tried another VR I had...same thing...still no charge. Either I need some genuine Subaru parts (VR and alternator)...or I need to some customizing to make it into an internally regulated alternator. The local Subaru dealer can't get me the parts needed..so now I am asking fellow Subaru fans to help me find them...or...let me know what I need to do to get this all to work by customizing. Another question: How can it be that when bench tested...the alternator now in the car was putting out 13+ Volts...and now is just a part of the circuit with no charging? and another: How easy is it to fry an alternator and VR? Would a short cause these to fail so easily? The fuel pump works..even had a spare that worked too..the car runs...but now no charge. We powered the fuel pump by an existing switch that was being used to run my fogs..but now is my fuel switch and is working fine. All of the idiot lights are coming on and the guage also shows no charging...just shows what the VOM shows...a little below 12V in the battery now. Truly flabbergasting...Shawn and I called it a day and went inside to cool off and still both had blank shell shocked faces because the gremlins got the best of us. Kudos to you Shawn...you are awesome and soon to become a neighbor and great asset to the Subaru community here in Denver, Colorado. Hope your trip back is safe and smooth. So...after being out of the loop for some time...Diamond and I have an irresistable urge to be back on the road again with fellow Subaru drivers. Thank you ahead of time for your help. Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 I know Andrew (Hondasucks) did a motor swap in his old '77 4wd wagon. He put a newer EA81 with the internal VR into the car and he was able to elminiate the external VR. I've talked to him a few times about it because I want to do the same thing in both of my gen 1 cars. He told me that he wired the fuel pump to the coil so when the coil saw power when the car was "ON", the fuel pump would come on. You might want to PM him but he won't be back into town until late tonight but I can call him and tell him that y'all need some help:D Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75skunkaroo Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 yay! please post all about how to swap to the IR alt/ gm conversion/ whatever tricks anyone knows to get more oomph from the system. (don't really mean to sound like a dork:rolleyes: ) thanks -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Here are some questions I have: 1. How many connections do you have to the new internally regulated alternator and if they are labled, what are they labeled? Don't count the alternator's main output lead as that is obvious. 2. How many leads do you have to the old regulator and are they labeled? 3. Is there an alternator charge warning light in the dash? 4. Do you have a wiring diagram available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted July 14, 2004 Author Share Posted July 14, 2004 Now the charge light comes on at the dashboard and a voltmeter measures the voltage across + and - at the battery to be an even 12, not 13.8....AND when we put the connector from the plus onto the back of the alternator its the same thing just plain old 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Shawn, Does the alternator only have one small lead connection besides the output lead? If so it sounds like the alternator is dead if you tied 12 volts to the field lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 it it's an external VR, isn't the voltage coming out gonna be solely dependent on the RPM's then. still sounds bad if it was only at 12V though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 An alternator should be able to produce most of it's output power with RPM's over 2,200 I think. No matter what kind of regulator it has. I assume this alternator we are taking about has no voltage change at any RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruloverbrad Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 it is really simple, it involves cutting one wire and running it to the ign switch on only when switch is on. the fuel pump wire can also be wired to turn on when the coil is energized. im not at my subaru right now, could go there tomorrow eve and take a pic if you need me to. one wire engerizises the feild it is the one you cut and run to the ign switch/ relay. it is one of the wires on the t connector, beilve it is the big one. that is how i put a newer al into my 1981... oh yeah, i unpluged my old ex regulator also. wish i still had the old pic i belive it is the one marked on alt "E" one wire is for energize one is for guage. hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Since there is a warning light in the dash, this needs to tie to the exciter lead I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenongod Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Ugh...eeek....oooh...wow...just now noticed the many replies..thanks! Well...to answer one question..no votalge change at any RPM...none. The voltmeter is only detecting what is stored in the battery...nothing more..nothing less...like the alternator doesn't even exist in the loop. I have a mystery wire on the coil...black w/ red stripe that is on the postive side of coil now which is unaccounted for...according to another post I made. Sounds like to me that the alternator is not getting engergized..eh? Would a wire straight to the battery from the "E" do the trick then...or should I keep a fire extinguisher handy? We took the fuel pump out of the loop...so could that have been the loop to energize the alternator? Back to the original idea: Eliminating the external VR and making it an internal VR machine. Where do I pick up an internally regulated alternator that fits...and how to incorporate it in the system? Is this going to be a butcher job? I'm still confused on what exactly the VR regulates and why. Is it because the voltage alternates and has peaks and valleys in the output? Then the regulator just keeps the voltage at a median level? That's what I have come to believe...learning more by the minute. I do have a wiring diagram..but it does not show every wire that exists on my wagon..so it kind of makes the diagram useless sometimes. Getting closer by the post to pretty much making a rig job just to bypass all the troublesome areas...nice to hear Diamond running though...purring purrrfection! Thanks...Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenongod Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Oh..and my GIF animation that I made would take up a lot of memory to run as a wallpaper. I even made one with laser beams shooting out of the third headlight engulfing everything and causing a black hole to open up and swallow the wagon...LOL!! Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Look in the USRM, I wrote up an article on how to do the swap. It's really easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenongod Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Look in the USRM, I wrote up an article on how to do the swap. It's really easy. UUMMMM!!...I looked in the USRM..."No articles found" under electrical. Thanks though...Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenongod Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 All articles are subjected to an approval process before they are visible to everyone on the site. Hondasucks many articles have all been approved and are now visibile. When you write an article, only you and the staff can see it. This is to allow us to review it, and for you to make additions and corrections to it if required. On articles you personally submit, you will see a small clock symbol next to the title in the listing - this is your indication that the article is awaiting approval. That's cool...I found another route to the USRM and some articles. What the articles speak of is using a XT6 alternator...which would require some metal working and changing pulleys...etc....plus they are expensive...and no junkyards have them around here anymore. All I want to do is find the same size alternator with an internal regulator and get it wired up correctly and safely...possibly more amps. I need the coil and alternator energized...the fuel pump switched with the ignition..and a guage would be nice. I have been out of the mechanic loop for some time and it is finally coming back to me...Shawn gave it a big boost by coming by and giving me a run down on some things. Anyhoo...that's where I am at right now. Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 To see if you have 12 volts at the exciter connection to the alternator check the voltage there with a voltmeter. If you have 12 volts there and that is the only other connection besides the main output lead then you have a bad alternator. As far as the regulators job goes, it provides the proper level of voltage to the exciter to make sure the battery voltage level stays at a proper charge. As current draw of the battery changes with various loads placed on it, the regulators job is to make sure that the alternator supplies the proper current to match the load demands. This way the battery stays charged up all the time no matter what load demands are placed on the battery, to a limit of the alternator's output anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenongod Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Hondasuck article can be found here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/article.php?a=14 This is a NEW article that has never been posted before in the old versions of the USRM. It details how to do exactly what you are asking, swap a internal VR alt. onto an extrenal VR car. The old USRM 'XT6 conversion' articles will be ported over by the original author or by us staff in 30 days if no one picks up the trail and wants to go out for the $50 reward. So far both Hondasucks and snotrocket have made some stellar new, never before seen submissions to the USRM and Auto Tech sections within the past two days. You can comment directly on the article -i.e. if it does not help you or it does, or if you would like to see some pictures added, etc. This will help us tweak the articles in the future to better help out everyone on the site. Your situation is a prime candidate for this - see if his article has what you need, if not, tell him aout it in a comment. This will allow for a continual revision process to take place quickly and efficiently. Awesome article...only one thing missing...where to get an internally regulated alternator that would fit without having to customize the bracket. The one thing that I will need very soon to get Diamond up and running again...Thanks!! Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Just get an alternator for a 83-84 wagon. should fit exactly like yours does. Awesome article...only one thing missing...where to get an internally regulated alternator that would fit without having to customize the bracket. The one thing that I will need very soon to get Diamond up and running again...Thanks!! Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 Soon as I get out there I will hook u up with an alt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenongod Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Soon as I get out there I will hook u up with an alt.No thanks Shawn..went out and bought a brand new alternator ('83 GL Wagon 1.8L) from Pep Boys and got it installed and everything done as stated in the USRM...and it works wonderfully. Gonna go back thru the wiring and touch it up some so I don't have any fires...LOL!! Anyhoo...thanks everyone...you rooz guyz are great!! Xenongod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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