EJ Brat with WRX Diff, rear outer CV Popped out?

[Ritchie]

Hello All,

I've recently completed an EJ20t conversion on my gen 2 Brat.

I installed the Impreza WRX rear diff to go with the gearbox and used the Brat axles with the WRX diff inner cups (male spline).

Everything went together well with no issues and it was driving great bit not for long.

I pulled left out of a T junction and floored it and the left shaft popped out of the outer CV.

I pulled the boot off, re-installed the clip but it did it again.

I know that lots of people have done what I did with the axles on a EJ conversion, but nobody seemed to have this issue.

I realise that the joint could've been worn previously but I don't think the truck has been used much in 4wd so I doubt this.

It's almost like the shaft is slightly too short, yes the diff is mounted perfectly and not off centre.

It also crossed my mind that if the torsion bar and wishbone bushes are worn this may allow the hub to move outwards under power contributing to the issue but they all seem in pretty good condition.

I had clocked the torsion bar to lower it but I've never read about anybody having this issue due to that.

I have bought another axle and will fit it when I can but I just wondered if anybody had come across this issue after installing a WRX / EJ diff.

Cheers!

BTW, a few short clips of the Brat on this channel - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkmeuGMIA1I

[scalman]

yes if rear axle too short then it will pop out. some models have longer ones ,some shorter by1-2cm, so look for longer axles then . 

[Ritchie]

19 hours ago, scalman said:

yes if rear axle too short then it will pop out. some models have longer ones ,some shorter by1-2cm, so look for longer axles then . 

Hmm, thanks, I've never heard of rear axles being different lengths before.

Can you advise which ones are longer?

Thanks very much.

[scalman]

not sure which ones you have there. but older impreza, fory , legacy ones are shorter and newer years are longer as cars became wider so cv axles longer , so you need to look older models like first gen foresters , imprezas , legacys. 

i remember measured mine previous 2001 outback rear axle and older impreza , legacy ones and those where like 1-2cm shorter because i needed shorter ones. and 2005 outback rear cv axles are some 1-2cm longer again from 2001 model. hope that helps to look for those. 

how i did i removed my rear cv axle and i went to subarus scrapyard and searched for same style but shorter axles.

[Ritchie]

And these shafts will fit the standard brat outer joint?

[Numbchux]

2 hours ago, Ritchie said:

And these shafts will fit the standard brat outer joint?

 

No. EA81s, and early EA82s are the only ones with DOJs on the outer joint as well as the inner, after about 1988, they all have a CV on the outer.

 

If you can get your hands on EA82 rear axles, the inner axle cup from them can be used in place of the outer on the EA81, but it's deeper, so will allow more axle extension.

[Ritchie]

13 minutes ago, Numbchux said:

 

No. EA81s, and early EA82s are the only ones with DOJs on the outer joint as well as the inner, after about 1988, they all have a CV on the outer.

 

If you can get your hands on EA82 rear axles, the inner axle cup from them can be used in place of the outer on the EA81, but it's deeper, so will allow more axle extension.

Thanks for that.

I'm a bit confused as to how I can install an inner (Diff end) EA82 cup onto my shaft when my driveshaft looks like this.

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Ritchie

[Numbchux]

EA81 rear axles look like this:

 

Look closely, you have a roll pin where the outer joint meets the suspension arm/wheel bearing.

[Ritchie]

Oh, yeah, sorry, I was getting front and rear axles mixed up!

Thanks, I'll have a look for EA82 rear axles.

[Ritchie]

These look like they might do the trick from Rockauto, complete shaft however,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,1994,loyale,1.8l+h4,1270178,drivetrain,cv+axle,2288

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3855681&cc=1270178&jsn=809

 

 

[el_freddo]

You could open the diff and fit the stub axles from the factory diff. Then run the stock drive shaft. 

You need the retainer plate piece that effectively holds the stub axle to the back of the spider gear. 

If you have an LSD this is way trucker to do unless you find the Gen1 turbo output diff stubs as they’re solid and held in by a clip like the male drive shafts are. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Ritchie]

I'm surprised I'm finding out about this issue now. I've spent months reading about EJ conversions and not once have I read of anybody having any issues with the rear shafts.

Everybody just says to swap the inner cups to the Impreza ones to fit the diff and they will be fine.

It appears not.

To make things worse, I just scrapped my original diff that I took out of the truck, never need that again! Not!

Do you think those axles on the rockauto link would have a deeper DOJ cup that the standard Brat?

[Numbchux]

Yep, should be right.

 

The rear diff in these cars is sometimes a little off center, not sure exactly why, and it seems to be different on every car. When there were more guys running welded diffs on here, there's always an easy side to pull an axle, some cars could be done without even jacking the car up. EA81s use a narrower track, so you can't use the shaft, but using 4 EA82 cups on EA81 shafts would give quite a bit more extension travel. When I built my Loyale (5-lug, EJ22, lowered), I didn't have any correct roll pins handy, so I used some low grade bolts. Broke 3 on the LH side (actually had a LR axle fall out while driving...) before doing it correctly, never on the RH side.

I have EA82 inner cups on my Brat shafts for a bit more travel. Took a picture last night (Boy does a flash highlight the rust....Minnesota car it's whole life), you can see the extra depth in the joint.

20200729_183004 by Numbchux, on Flickr

[Ritchie]

That's great, thanks for the info. Like you say, 4x cups would be perfect but I don't fancy buying 4x new shafts just for the cups!

As for the rust, it just looks like a typical Scottish car!

[Numbchux]

3 hours ago, Ritchie said:

That's great, thanks for the info. Like you say, 4x cups would be perfect but I don't fancy buying 4x new shafts just for the cups!

As for the rust, it just looks like a typical Scottish car!

Well, the inner cups won't work on your WRX diff, anyway. But even if you just get one, it might get you just the extra you need.

[Ritchie]

10 hours ago, Numbchux said:

Well, the inner cups won't work on your WRX diff, anyway. But even if you just get one, it might get you just the extra you need.

I've ordered a couple of shafts from Rockauto to change the outer cups so I'll see how it goes. It'll be quite a while before I manage to get to this but I'll report back for future reference, thanks very much all for the advice.

[el_freddo]

16 hours ago, Ritchie said:

As for the rust, it just looks like a typical Scottish car!

I won’t send a pic of my brumby’s rear end then. It might make you jealous. 

All the best with it. 

One of my mates lowered his brumby mega low. Rear diff wasn’t far off the ground and he was forever pulling out the inner cup on the rear left shaft. Namely when hitting larger bumps. 

I think he used an early L series shaft that was doj on both ends of the shaft. It was longer than the MY units and solved the issue if I recall correctly. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Ritchie]

20 minutes ago, el_freddo said:

I won’t send a pic of my brumby’s rear end then. It might make you jealous. 

All the best with it. 

One of my mates lowered his brumby mega low. Rear diff wasn’t far off the ground and he was forever pulling out the inner cup on the rear left shaft. Namely when hitting larger bumps. 

I think he used an early L series shaft that was doj on both ends of the shaft. It was longer than the MY units and solved the issue if I recall correctly. 

Cheers 

Bennie

Thanks Bennie, I'll probably compare these shafts I bought and see if I could install the shaft into the Impreza inner joint if it's slightly longer, I doubt it though.

Anyway, have a pic of it...

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Ritchie

[Ritchie]

I've just seen these on Rockauto for an '86 GL which may be better, any thoughts? Or are the same as the Brats? The DOJ cup is probably the same lengths as I have ordered.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=11383925&cc=1268423&jsn=10626&jsn=10626

To be honest I'm a bit confused with the L Series / EA82 / GL / Leone / Loyale. As I understand they are all the same.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Ritchie

[Numbchux]

5 hours ago, Ritchie said:

I've just seen these on Rockauto for an '86 GL which may be better, any thoughts? Or are the same as the Brats? The DOJ cup is probably the same lengths as I have ordered.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=11383925&cc=1268423&jsn=10626&jsn=10626

To be honest I'm a bit confused with the L Series / EA82 / GL / Leone / Loyale. As I understand they are all the same.

 

Wow, I didn't think anyone made them aftermarket, nor that they went to the trouble to duplicate the style that closely (I assumed the aftermarket companies would replace all EA82 rears with the same part).

The important part is the compressed length, an EA82 shaft will bottom out on an EA81, as it's too long. But assuming that's identical to OEM, that should give you a pair of the cups you need.

 

The wording is really screwy. MY and L-series is the Aussie wording for EA81 and EA82. GL and Leone were used for both body styles, and Loyale only for the end of EA82s...

 

 

Your Brat looks gorgeous!

[Ritchie]

Thanks, I like it, it still needs a tidy up cosmetically. 

I've ordered a couple of the first shafts I put up, if that doesn't work I'll probably get the shafts extended as I don't want to keep throwing money at new ones hoping to get the cup I need.

Used Subaru parts of that era are basically non existent in the UK, every one of them rotted away, including my first Brat, I imported this one from Texas and converted it to RHD.

[el_freddo]

20 hours ago, Ritchie said:

Thanks, I like it, it still needs a tidy up cosmetically. 

Yeah righto... sounds like an overstatement to me! Mine’s full of dings and dents, and it has about three different colours of red over it (subtle)... and my rims need to be blasted and painted again.

  

20 hours ago, Ritchie said:

I imported this one from Texas and converted it to RHD.

That’s dedication! 

Giles shipped a brumby half cut to the UK for one of his projects. He was stoked as it had the factory AC we got over here that was either rare as over there or not an option. That brumby was put to good use as it was destined for the scrap heap.

Keep up the good work! 

Cheers 

Bennie

 

[Ritchie]

5 minutes ago, el_freddo said:

Yeah righto... sounds like an overstatement to me! Mine’s full of dings and dents, and it has about three different colours of red over it (subtle)... and my rims need to be blasted and painted again.

  

That’s dedication! 

Giles shipped a brumby half cut to the UK for one of his projects. He was stoked as it had the factory AC we got over here that was either rare as over there or not an option. That brumby was put to good use as it was destined for the scrap heap.

Keep up the good work! 

Cheers 

Bennie

 

Cheers Bennie, mine had AC, it was never an option the UK but unfortunately I had to chop it out when I made it RHD, as I don't think the heater box would work with the RHD layout.