2007 Subaru Forester head gasket repair (Ohio)

[TypeOPositive]

Hello everyone!

I bought a fozzy a while ago with blown head gaskets. The PO had their mechanic replace parts on the cooling system thinking that was the issue, so I'm lead to believe the engine wasn't overheated. Its got around 150k, so I'm having a hard time justifying the cost of a junkyard motor. I'm not exactly sure how much money would be saved doing the repair myself. Seems like I would just be paying for a more thorough job with the money saved on labor by doing it myself.

 

My concern is that after looking into how involved this job is, I dont know if its wise (financially) to attempt this on my own versus having a professional do the work. I think I'm capable, but from the reading I've done, this model year has the variable valve stuff. Seems to complicate matters. I live in southeast Ohio, if anyone has recommendations on a shop. 

 

Thanks in advance!

[idosubaru]

That's a small area.  I'd check into a local facebook group or google reviews with a mind towards subaru specific experience.  

Resurface the heads and use Subaru gaskets and you'll be in good shape.  OEM timing kit, water pump, valve cover gaskets, cam seals, reseal the oil pump and you're done. 

[TypeOPositive]

4 hours ago, idosubaru said:

That's a small area.  I'd check into a local facebook group or google reviews with a mind towards subaru specific experience.  

Resurface the heads and use Subaru gaskets and you'll be in good shape.  OEM timing kit, water pump, valve cover gaskets, cam seals, reseal the oil pump and you're done. 

Do you have a suggestion on where to have the heads resurfaced? I did momentarily consider doing the post apocalyptic glass and sandpaper thing. But it'd be a shame to waste all the effort over a little money.

[idosubaru]

11 minutes ago, TypeOPositive said:

Do you have a suggestion on where to have the heads resurfaced? I did momentarily consider doing the post apocalyptic glass and sandpaper thing. But it'd be a shame to waste all the effort over a little money.

1. Call the highest rated local shop on facebook or google and ask them who does their head resurfacing. 

2. Call the local subaru service or parts department (or other New dealerships) and ask them who does their machine shop work like resurfacing. But - the Subaru dealer in Morgantown uses a shop that will let any one on staff toss the heads on a belt sander and call it good machined below limits with fingernail gouges on them (I've posted pictures and measurements on here before, I'm not disgruntled consumer).  So I just do the post apocalyptic method myself, it's super easy minus the learning curve of getting supplies. So, once you have that recommendation try to make sure they're using a preferred method for head resurfacing.

Ask the machine shop what they use to resurface heads - a blanchard grinder or other preferred method should be used, not a belt sander.  If they say a belt sander, call someone else. 

3. Or call *machine shops* and ask if they'll resurface heads without pressure testing them. Just decline any warranty, it's useless anyway on those EJ heads, there's no way they're cracked or bad unless was severly abused and has melted timing covers, etc.  If it was abused you're going to loose a bottom end bearing before any head issues arise anyway. 

Resurface is like $100 give or take.  Many shops want to do a full on resurface, valve job, and pressure test for $500 -$750, you don't need that on these heads for the reasons already stated.  Some shops that don't do a lot of Subaru's will want you to have it pressure tested.  Don't think badly of them, sometimes they need CYA from bad customers.

Or yeah - all of this pushes some people to do it yourself.  My time is more valuable than driving, dropping off, waiting, driving again when I live far away from anything and don't have good options anyway. 

 

[TypeOPositive]

1 hour ago, idosubaru said:

1. Call the highest rated local shop on facebook or google and ask them who does their head resurfacing. 

2. Call the local subaru service or parts department (or other New dealerships) and ask them who does their machine shop work like resurfacing. But - the Subaru dealer in Morgantown uses a shop that will let any one on staff toss the heads on a belt sander and call it good machined below limits with fingernail gouges on them (I've posted pictures and measurements on here before, I'm not disgruntled consumer).  So I just do the post apocalyptic method myself, it's super easy minus the learning curve of getting supplies. So, once you have that recommendation try to make sure they're using a preferred method for head resurfacing.

Ask the machine shop what they use to resurface heads - a blanchard grinder or other preferred method should be used, not a belt sander.  If they say a belt sander, call someone else. 

3. Or call *machine shops* and ask if they'll resurface heads without pressure testing them. Just decline any warranty, it's useless anyway on those EJ heads, there's no way they're cracked or bad unless was severly abused and has melted timing covers, etc.  If it was abused you're going to loose a bottom end bearing before any head issues arise anyway. 

Resurface is like $100 give or take.  Many shops want to do a full on resurface, valve job, and pressure test for $500 -$750, you don't need that on these heads for the reasons already stated.  Some shops that don't do a lot of Subaru's will want you to have it pressure tested.  Don't think badly of them, sometimes they need CYA from bad customers.

Or yeah - all of this pushes some people to do it yourself.  My time is more valuable than driving, dropping off, waiting, driving again when I live far away from anything and don't have good options anyway. 

 

Thank you very much for your very thorough reply. It seems like making them flat again is the most important part. The additional work seems like it might be worth it if the mileage was really high.

 

One other thing that I've worried about was the change in engine timing. I know that its only a few degrees, but the only solutions I've read about are adjustable pulleys and thicker head gaskets. Is it worth fooling with in your opinion?

[idosubaru]

13 hours ago, TypeOPositive said:

Thank you very much for your very thorough reply. It seems like making them flat again is the most important part. The additional work seems like it might be worth it if the mileage was really high.

 

One other thing that I've worried about was the change in engine timing. I know that its only a few degrees, but the only solutions I've read about are adjustable pulleys and thicker head gaskets. Is it worth fooling with in your opinion?

Sure thing. You’re as local as I’ll get on here! was in Parkersburg in March.  won the state racquetball championships and topped the younger folks for #1on the radar at 144 mph. I dont know any mechanics or auto enthusiasts there or I’d ask a local.

If you resurface them or watch as it’s done, the high and low spots are obvious as material comes off. It’s worth doing for such an expensive and labor intensive job on an engine prone to headgaskets issues.

once you know a shop or have the flat surface and sand paper it’s really easy and quick and not hard to do.

There are no timing concerns. Resurfacing of heads is completely normal and expected during the design phase of the engine, that’s why Subaru put limits and specs in the FSM from the factory.   One resurface isn’t going to be OOL. 

if someone really wanted to skip the step I wouldn’t do the job personally, but I’d also say that many Subaru dealers haven’t been resurfacing EJ25 heads for decades and they don’t have many problems at all within their 12,000 mile 12 month shop warranty. It’s rare for them to have issues.  I wouldn’t skip it but if someone was desperate too I’d tell them to at least check it for flatness if they can, ask a shop too and they have a reasonable chance of being okay, or as okay as Subaru dealers. 
 

[TypeOPositive]

In your experience with resurfacing EJ heads using a piece of glass and sandpaper, has the end result consistently been within tolerance / flatness? It seems like a perfectly acceptable way to do the job if the stealerships are using belt sanders. That's actually kind of sad.

I've basically accepted the fact that I'll have to pull the engine myself or part with a large sum of money. So thank you for helping me realize its not nearly as bad as I would have myself believe. Doing this myself definitely seems more realistic now.

The block seems like the least likely component to be affected by a head gasket failure, but is it worth having it checked? I recall an issue I had with an oil cooler on my truck where the surface warped after the mating parts were removed. That was spooky, and i no longer trust aluminum!

 

So now the big question is, wheter or not to remove the engine? Seems like it would make life easier.

[idosubaru]

23 minutes ago, TypeOPositive said:

In your experience with resurfacing EJ heads using a piece of glass and sandpaper, has the end result consistently been within tolerance / flatness? It seems like a perfectly acceptable way to do the job if the stealerships are using belt sanders. That's actually kind of sad.

I've basically accepted the fact that I'll have to pull the engine myself or part with a large sum of money. So thank you for helping me realize its not nearly as bad as I would have myself believe. Doing this myself definitely seems more realistic now.

The block seems like the least likely component to be affected by a head gasket failure, but is it worth having it checked? I recall an issue I had with an oil cooler on my truck where the surface warped after the mating parts were removed. That was spooky, and i no longer trust aluminum!

 

So now the big question is, wheter or not to remove the engine? Seems like it would make life easier.

"Dealers" don't use belt sanders. I didn't say that, you're conflating some facts.  Remember, many dealers don't resurface heads routinely.  The *machine shop* used a belt sander, not a dealership.  The local Morgantown dealer uses this machine shop, but for other services, not heads. So the dealer isn't having heads routinely belt sanded there.  I think the Morgantown dealer is one that doesn't resurface heads, so belt sanders aren't getting used on heads here and I don't think it's common.  That's why I said to call and ask, so you know. 

I wouldn't check the block deck on an average daily driver needing routine headgasket work.  Clean it appropriately. 

Removing the engine is the way to go.  Doing it insitu is possible but only a good fit for a very small percentage of people and situations who need or want to avoid pulling an engine at all costs.

[TypeOPositive]

5 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

"Dealers" don't use belt sanders. I didn't say that, you're conflating some facts.  Remember, many dealers don't resurface heads routinely.  The *machine shop* used a belt sander, not a dealership.  The local Morgantown dealer uses this machine shop, but for other services, not heads. So the dealer isn't having heads routinely belt sanded there.  I think the Morgantown dealer is one that doesn't resurface heads, so belt sanders aren't getting used on heads here and I don't think it's common.  That's why I said to call and ask, so you know. 

I wouldn't check the block deck on an average daily driver needing routine headgasket work.  Clean it appropriately. 

Removing the engine is the way to go.  Doing it insitu is possible but only a good fit for a very small percentage of people and situations who need or want to avoid pulling an engine at all costs.

I certainly did miss the distinction you made about the machine shops and dealers. Sorry about that.

Removing the engine has been the popular opinion in the posts I've read as well. Guess it's time to get an engine stand. 

Thanks again for the advice.

[forester2002s]

On 7/30/2020 at 4:13 AM, TypeOPositive said:

Guess it's time to get an engine stand. 

I don't bother with an engine stand.  Just use a few blocks of spare lumber on the garage floor. It's not perfect, and OSH may not approve, but it works.

And it's not that difficult to remove the engine, but you do need a lift of some sort.

[idosubaru]

8 hours ago, forester2002s said:

I don't bother with an engine stand.  Just use a few blocks of spare lumber on the garage floor. It's not perfect, and OSH may not approve, but it works.

And it's not that difficult to remove the engine, but you do need a lift of some sort.

A tire is money and a tire shop will let you borrow or have one. Set the oil pan in the tire and use 2x lumber to prop up the side you’re working on.