Upgrading to 2020 OB ?s

[brus brother]

So my 05 Outback with 200+K is nearing retirement. (not a bad thing since I retried last year myself and highly recommend it)

Roaming around the Subaru lot I came across a 2018 with 25K miles so then commenced the salesman's dance:

"well if you like the 2018 you'll be impressed with the 2020 MY for just a few thou more, you get the 3/36 warranty and a complimentary smile with purchase..."

CVT is now unavoidable and the 2020s introduced the automatic stop/start function which needs to be manually disabled at each restart.

The darn OBs keep getting bigger and bigger, while my aging eyesight might lead me to bumping into things more and more, and the "Infotainment" display grew along with the MYs.

That fingerprint magnet has grown to the size of a small computer monitor and unless the car is parked, the controls are no longer touchy, feely as on my 05 and 08 and could prove a distraction while in motion (see aging eyes above).

Since I intend on driving it till the wheels fall off, the electronic doo-dads feel like they are a long term weak link in the machine.

Subscription services for features like wifi, forever tied to ATT, and other recurring software upgrading costs make these cars seem like a Microsoft deal where you are buying the hardware but lease the software to keep it running. I personally prefer open source Linux over MS or Apple for that very reason and rightfully fear that hacking into that baby to install Linux might brick the car completely.

I guess this rant might be better placed in the "discussions" area than here in the "fixit" section so mods please move it if I am out of place.

Any input or caveats appreciated.

In the meantime, as an old foggie, let me just say... "Get off my lawn!"

 

[lmdew]

Nice rust free 99 Outback with a low mile 2.2.  Trouble free retirement and great body style.

[idosubaru]

"1st year model" is sometimes a concern, particularly when it comes to NAV/display since Subaru is usually a little twitchy and not always a trend setter or robust developer with tech.  But it comes with a warranty so they'll work kinks out too. 

2020 is worth entertaining, used prices are so high for a couple year old Subaru's that 0% financing on Outbacks until Sept 30 can be a good fit.  0% is better than used interest rates or if paying cash, dump that all into the cheap crashing market and make money off of Subaru's dime. 

The 2018 can have the Subaru 100 or 120k extended warranty added for like $1,250.  The 2020 doesn't give a warranty that's impossible to get for the 2018, so that's not a huge selling point, except that it's included in the price of the 2020...up to 36k anyway, but not up to 120k.  I'm all about avoiding those warranty costs as a DIY Subaru hobbyist.  But considering reliability and practicality are one of the chief values of a new(er) vehicle - an extended warranty has merit over the premium paid relative for buying a new(er) car to begin with. 

Both are good options and get you far away from any rust issues that 05 is probably flirting with!  That alone makes it worth it!

 

[idosubaru]

6 minutes ago, lmdew said:

Nice rust free 99 Outback with a low mile 2.2.  Trouble free retirement and great body style.

Fly out west/south and drive home a rust free Subaru (avoid the northern transplants).  It's a fantastic way to drive Subaru's up here.  The 3 I'm currently driving are all from the south. 

[lmdew]

Here you go.  09, 150K, $6300 1 Owner

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/d/colorado-springs-2009-subaru-outback/7200489504.html

Edited September 22, 2020 by lmdew

[moosens]

Jim I’ve got a 92 FWD wagon that would turn heads in Weston. Reliable 2.2 Anti-theft garb would include being a five speed manual and the art inspired paint deterioration resulting in the absolute coolest patina. 
 

Super rust protected (now) since the power steering rack is shot and puked out fluid these parts few weeks. No need to join the gym , you’ll get your workout steering the car. Even aging bodies need to keep upper arm strength. 
 

Heat shields rattle , runs year round on snow tires , and has cool motorcycle racing related stickers and being my daily it has to have a Nova Scotia sticker on it. 
 

I would gladly donate it to you so you can save those SS checks and maybe buy a nicer ride in the future , AFTER you’ve hit the 500k mark. It’s at 345k now but still stunning around the cafes and stores downtown Westport, Darien, Greenwich, those kind of places.

It’s the best car I’ve ever owned.

Free to you as soon as I get my 2003 back. 
 

Or just buy new plastic electro gizmo what the hell does that symbol mean ?? rubber band transmission future mouse trap car. 
 

See you at Perkins.

[GeneralDisorder]

Too many computers and modules on anything 05/06+ (once you hit the CANBUS era). The long term reliability is the biggest concern. It's very easy for Subaru to essentially orphan the cars. All the software is closed source and after about 10-15 years the modules start to go NLA and failures are relatively common. And used isn't an option for many of the modules as they can only be VIN coded and programed one time, etc. Once these cars start to have intermittent CANBUS communication errors it's pretty much over. The problems are numerous and intermittent and are extremely hard to resolve. In some cases basically impossible due to the value of the car, inability to acquire programmable (new) modules, and the massive troubleshooting labor due to everything being immobilized, encrypted, etc. Manufacturers are so worried about their intellectual property being stolen, reverse engineered, etc that they don't allow any insight into the communication codes the modules will throw at you so there's virtually no way to troubleshoot it. I have a 2012 Outback at the shop that is essentially non-repairable due to a complete lack of any feedback from the computers to tell us why it won't crank and why we can't communicate with the immobilizer in the BIU. It's likely going to get scrapped. 

GD

[lmdew]

Sad Sad Sad.  When they don't let Mechanics troubleshoot effectively!

[brus brother]

Well is this a fine howdoyado!

Just when I was leaning towards the nifty 2020, dread has now settled over me!

Knowing how 'puters quickly become obsolete if they haven't yet bricked...

My 05 is completely rust free. No body damage. 201K miles.

However it needs:

TB/HG (probably pull, resurface and seal)

Shock top mounts, spongy shocks

P0420 (permanent dash light show) for the past 100K. Already changed both AF sensors and front O2 sensors and aftermarket passenger side cat.

CV joints a clackin'

I'm getting too old for more than oil/trans fluid changes.

Dealer offers trade ranged between $1500-2000 which seems fair. Didn't even test drive (Covid)

[idosubaru]

That is a decent trade and would be surprising for the 2020, they’ll have way more profit in that 2018.

[brus brother]

I forgot to mention the damned mode selector switch which has or I should say had a metallic disc interface that long ago wore out along with the actuator motor clicks on and on and on...

Dr. Kevorkian made sense under such circumstances ;-)

[1 Lucky Texan]

if it seems too big, look at a Forester - or maybe Crosstrek ?

 

My wife is itching to buy herself a new car - maybe a Mazda - but, even though we really have zero need for 3 cars, I REALLY don't want to sell either of my cars. The WRX makes no sense to keep other than I LOVE driving it, the Outback is starting to squeak groan somehwere in the rear so I know more rubber is going bad....

 

plus, It's harder for me to crawl around under them....Outback is needing quite a bit of refreshing, and the WRX I know is a ticking time bomb.....

[brus brother]

Drove a Crosstreck today. Too small and light afoot. Forrester is too high and squat. As in the Three Bears, the Outback seemed just right.

I must say after a few laps around the block, it is pretty elegant.

HOWEVER, the same sales rep that hooked us on Sunday suddenly upped his price quote on a loaner car as well as reducing the trade from $2K to $500.

I'd rather drive it into the ground.

I felt like I was watching the car sales scene from Fargo.

 

[lmdew]

2012 Outback 6 sp manual 121K, $8500 CO

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/for/d/palmer-lake-2012-subaru-outback/7197446328.html

Rust free CO.

[3Pin]

I have a 2014 Outback with the 3.6 and the regular transmission.  Love it and the extra room is nice for the longer weekender trips with the Labrador and cooler.  I understand GD's concerns, but also like my newer Subaru.  My wife has a 2017 Impreza hatchback which is also fun to drive.  I would go to a different Subaru dealer or ask for a different salesperson.  I am a Subaru Ambassador so if you do intend to buy a new one PM me.

[idosubaru]

On 9/23/2020 at 7:24 PM, brus brother said:

Drove a Crosstreck today. Too small and light afoot. Forrester is too high and squat. As in the Three Bears, the Outback seemed just right.

I must say after a few laps around the block, it is pretty elegant.

HOWEVER, the same sales rep that hooked us on Sunday suddenly upped his price quote on a loaner car as well as reducing the trade from $2K to $500.

I'd rather drive it into the ground.

I felt like I was watching the car sales scene from Fargo

 

Oh salespeople, good grief will they never stop?

Rust free, runs, drives, northeast, fall - your old one should sell quickly at $2k right now if you could list it yourself.  You could try listing it on subaruoutback.org.  Facebook is easy to sell stuff, just be prepared to ignored all the low ballers and trade offers.  

[brus brother]

Looks like a toxic waste dump under the engine. Leaking HGs, yup. Driver VC gasket not just weeping, it's sobbing!

Makes a mess but as I travel I now notice how many other cars leave their mark.

I may try another salesperson at the dealership.

[idosubaru]

7 hours ago, brus brother said:

 

I may try another salesperson at the dealership

Good luck!  Salesperson whackamole

[moosens]

If only the sales staff were anywhere near as good as the elder parts guys there. 
 

Only times I’ve dealt with Sales people at Perkins I felt like throwing a punch or two at the arrogant €#£¥&@ 

Premier up the line is said to be a fairly decent ‘ship. And Charlie Miller might still be there ( super master guru above all else including GD here ).

As the saying goes , Good luck wit dat ! 

[idosubaru]

Last I saw Subaru’s 0% financing ends Sept 30. Maybe Sales people stiffen up close to that, Knowing that some people want that rate and will sign rather than loose it. 

In some areas, and outside of known excellent urban dealers, the more rural or less high ended communities around, the better your chances are at getting away from cash flushed places that see so many people with open wallets that you’re just a nuisance.

I’ve seen this play out in a number of locales in different states around high priced communities which NY has plenty of.  They see so many customers that pay whatever and some tire kicking lowballers, most who know little about cars, that they unfortunately treat you poorly if you don’t fit one of those molds. I don’t know your dealer but I’ve seen this before and heard from long time dealership staff (not just Subaru) that this is the case. 

 

[brus brother]

Right you are Moose. All of the old timers are fading into the sunset, both from parts and sales. Many of the geezers in sales have done the Covid shuffle and split.

The bait and switch, essentially jacking the price 10% from the (non-written) quote made me want to go home and brush my teeth.

I may actually contact Dan himself and report on my experience.

I have always rated them well, going so far as writing to SOA (that letter is framed and hanging on the wall in the showroom).

[moosens]

Letter on the wall !! ??? I can see where I missed that. I avoid the upstairs except to pee or mooch a snack. Or snag brochures but nothing is so cool anymore.