Timing Belts/Kit '88 EA82 Tricks or Tips?

[subaru1988]

Hi everybody, long time lurker, '88 Subaru DL EA82 with 258K miles that are more than 1/2 highway. I've had it a LONG time, and it's been a great car overall. That said, the other day after I changed the bypass hose due to chasing a small leak, and out of dumb luck it konked out on me. After putting it in 1st ( I know they say 2nd or 3rd in the manual, my bad :/ ) and moving it just a few feet with the starter to get out of traffic, I towed it home.

I have a small amount of Subaru specific know how, so I took the dist cap off, cranked it, and the rotor didn't move. I've had this before, and it's usually a timing belt issue. I had the belts replaced 10 years ago, and they only have 37K on them, which kinda sucks. Anyway, the car owes me nothing, and I just don't have $500 to spend on someone else's fix, so I thought I'd try the belts and probably the water pump too, which is  more than likely my leak source since it still drips coolant. 

I understand it's pretty much removing  stuff on the front, lining up the timing mark for each cam sprocket, timing EACH cam correctly, and then putting it back together. Miles Fox didn't use any special tool to tension the belts in his vid, so I guess I can do that too. I have a few bolts on the covers that just turn..

I tried to take the crank pulley bolt off with the car in gear and the e-brake on and the plugs out, but the engine just rotated some CCW without the bolt moving. That didn't hurt it, did it? Anyway, I found  the trick about using the breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt and propping it under the driver side after the fact

BTW- since one of my belts actually broke and I don't know where the camshaft sprocket wound up, do I need to find TDC and on what cylinder to get get the camshaft sprockets lined up with the timing mark on the "flywheel" to put the belts on right? Also, is it possible to do the cam seals with the engine in the car? Haynes says no, and Miles's vid did his out of the car.

Yes, I've done a search, but I'm just basically just asking for any tips or tricks you all might have from experience to make this whole job a little easier. If you have any, I'd sure be appreciative! THanks!
 

Edited September 29, 2020 by subaru1988

[Ionstorm66]

So there is a mark on both cam pulleys and on the flywheel, and marks on the cover and bellhousing to line up. You install the drivers/dizzy side first. Reinstall the crank pulley. Then rotate the engine one rotation. The drivers/dizzy cam mark will be pointing down. 

I would recommend pulling the alt, ac compressor, battery and ac bracket. Makes getting to the water pump pulley and timing belt cover easier to get to.

You won't hurt the motor turning it.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Ionstorm66

[DaveT]

The mark on the flywheel is 3 vertical lines.  You position it so the cast arrow edge lines up with the center mark.

What ionstorm wrote re cam pulleys, and turn the crank one revolution between belts.

I made the tool for sething the proper tension.   Put 15ft lbs of tourque,  snug the idler bolts.  Do both belts, then do a 10 second run.  Re set the tension.  The belts will have walked into the position they want to run in, and usually are loose.

[subaru1988]

No AC to deal with, so that's good. I get the whole crank marks, camshaft sprocket marks and rotate once deal. Let me see if I have this right. It's the fact that a belt broke that's throwing me off. I don't think both belts broke. So, if my PASSENGER belt broke, I just proceed as normal by putting the driver side cam pulley pointing up with the mark on the flywheel center while turning the cam pulley mark on that side down, right? If the DRIVER side belt broke, I should start the whole process with the PASSENGER cam pulley pointing DOWN, and then rotate the DRIVER side cam pulley mark to point up, right?

I was thinking about making a tool for the tension too. I'll see what I can come up with. You said do a ten second run. That's with it all hooked up except the covers on, right? I don't mind hooking up the alt and all that (except the electric fan, too I assume) if it saves me the hassle of taking all the other stuff off to make an adjustment. That's a good tip..

Thanks!

Edited September 29, 2020 by subaru1988
Clarity..

[DaveT]

You don't need the alternator or the water pump for 10 seconds.

I stopped installing the covers years ago, after watching a number of members run without covers for years, with no problems.   I've caught idler bearings before they fail and take out a belt since.  Also, I suspect the belts run cooler with all the air blowing over them, and seem to last longer.

I would replace both belts. 

The cam pulley has the timing mark up, aligned with the notch in the back cover when you are putting the belt on.  Only on the side you are installing at the moment.   The cam you are not working on doesn't matter.    It's a kind of double check, that once you do the single revolution on the crank, the one that has the belt will be down.  The 2 cam marks will always be 180 degrees opposite each other.

[el_freddo]

Replace both belts and tensioners. It might not be an old belt that “just snapped”, it could be a seized tensioner wheel that melts the cambelt and makes a huge mess. 

If there’s any melted rubber on the crank or cam wheels, clean this off - ALL of it! It’s not fun. 

Best bit about the EA82 cam belt job is you can’t stuff the engine as they’re non interference. 

The other option (and I have to say this partly for shits and giggles) is to EJ it. Then your L will be really fun! 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Step-a-toe]

I am surprised Bennie gave three lines before plugging an EJ conversion !

Are EJs free spinners? IE no bendy valves if belt slips or breaks

[Mack Truck]

I  too agree with running open belts. Here is the link to the video i watched to learn how to instal the timing belts correctly.  I hope you got the kit and replace all the tensioners idleers and all that.  you will be glad you did.  MIles Fox is a Subaru Mechanic that shows you how to do these things at home with minimal tools.  best of luck man...   

 

[Ionstorm66]

4 hours ago, subaru1988 said:

No AC to deal with, so that's good. I get the whole crank marks, camshaft sprocket marks and rotate once deal. Let me see if I have this right. It's the fact that a belt broke that's throwing me off. I don't think both belts broke. So, if my PASSENGER belt broke, I just proceed as normal by putting the driver side cam pulley pointing up with the mark on the flywheel center while turning the cam pulley mark on that side down, right? If the DRIVER side belt broke, I should start the whole process with the PASSENGER cam pulley pointing DOWN, and then rotate the DRIVER side cam pulley mark to point up, right?

I was thinking about making a tool for the tension too. I'll see what I can come up with. You said do a ten second run. That's with it all hooked up except the covers on, right? I don't mind hooking up the alt and all that (except the electric fan, too I assume) if it saves me the hassle of taking all the other stuff off to make an adjustment. That's a good tip..

Thanks!

The belts tend to move the pulleys when you put them on, so make sure the cams are still pointing up when you are done installing. Also you could in theory put a mark 180* from the oe on the passenger side, but it isn't worth it. Takes no time to rotate the engine.

 

Also make sure you use the right timing marks on the flywheel. There are 2 sets and they are different. Also if its rusty use some sandpaper to remove it. The marks are stamped pretty deep so you wont remove them easily.

[Rampage]

3 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

Are EJs free spinners? IE no bendy valves if belt slips or breaks

Not all of them.

Our 95 EJ22 has hydraulic lifters and is listed as non-interference. Our 97 "had" solid adjustable and was interference. I swapped 95 heads onto it. I later found out that I could have just swapped the rocker assy. instead. But I had already swapped the dual port Y-pipe with the heads.

[subaru1988]

5 hours ago, el_freddo said:

Replace both belts and tensioners. It might not be an old belt that “just snapped”, it could be a seized tensioner wheel that melts the cambelt and makes a huge mess. 

If there’s any melted rubber on the crank or cam wheels, clean this off - ALL of it! It’s not fun. 

Best bit about the EA82 cam belt job is you can’t stuff the engine as they’re non interference. 

The other option (and I have to say this partly for shits and giggles) is to EJ it. Then your L will be really fun! 

Cheers 

Bennie

You could be right about the tensioner(s). If that's it, I'll get it cleaned up, that's for sure.  I'll be using the whole kit.  Engine swaps would be great, but I just don't have the room or help to get it done. Sounds cool, though

3 hours ago, Mack Truck said:

I  too agree with running open belts. Here is the link to the video i watched to learn how to instal the timing belts correctly.  I hope you got the kit and replace all the tensioners idleers and all that.  you will be glad you did.  MIles Fox is a Subaru Mechanic that shows you how to do these things at home with minimal tools.  best of luck man...   

 

I'm ok with trying the open belts, but I wonder about road debris like rocks or whatever. Also, I will be doing this with the engine in the car. I assume I can do the cam seals in the car, which necessitates taking off the cam pulleys, which would let me take off the whole shebang of covers. I've watched the Miles Fox vids- over and over! Good stuff..

2 hours ago, Ionstorm66 said:

The belts tend to move the pulleys when you put them on, so make sure the cams are still pointing up when you are done installing. Also you could in theory put a mark 180* from the oe on the passenger side, but it isn't worth it. Takes no time to rotate the engine.

Also make sure you use the right timing marks on the flywheel. There are 2 sets and they are different. Also if its rusty use some sandpaper to remove it. The marks are stamped pretty deep so you wont remove them easily.

Good tips. I'll try to work the belts on with as little movement as possible. I actually saw the marks first when I rotated the engine a little CCW  when trying to get the crank pulley bolt out. I then rotated it CW and found the ignition and cam timing marks.

I appreciate the tips! Looks like along with guys from the US, a few Australians and a member from England are still running the old Subarus, which is pretty cool.

Edited September 30, 2020 by subaru1988
-

[loyalematt]

I would replace both belts to be on the safe side, and be sure to check your tensioners while they are off. With the flywheel at the center III mark, line up the passenger side cam sprocket timing mark with the notch in the rear timing cover. Should be straight up. Put the belt on and adjust tensioner to proper setting then tighten the bolt. Now rotate the crank 1 full revolution. You should be back at the center III mark, with the passenger cam sprocket now pointed straight down. Line up the driver cam sprocket timing mark with the notch in the back cover (straight up). Put the belt on and then adjust the tensioner to spec then tighten the bolt. Now I usually rotate the crank atleast 2 full revolutions by hand, then realign the center III mark on the flywheel and check the cam marks. One should be straight up aligning with the notch in the back cover, and the other straight down. Recheck belt tension and you are good to go. 

Also, the cam seals can be done in the car as they are removed from the front as an assembly. Simply pull the timing covers (which you will already have off), then both cam sprockets have to be removed. You will need something to hold the cam sprockets in place when you break the bolts loose to remove them. I would recommend lining up the sprockets as if you were doing the timing belts first, or atleast mark them in reference to the back cover for when it is reinstalled. Remove the back timing covers on both sides, then you can pull the cam seal housing off (3 bolts if I remember correctly). This is also the best time to check that water pump in the vehicle. There is an o-ring on the pipe that seats in the side of the water pump your hose connects to that is notorious for leaking on these. You can also check for excessive free play or rough bearings in the pump, along with any potential leaks. That o-ring would be my first suspicion. Then simply reinstall your cam seal housings, back covers, cam sprockets, and the timing belts as mentioned above. 

Another note, since you had one of the belts break, if you get your timing belts aligned and then go to start it and it fails to start, don't fear just yet. You may have to rotate the distributor 180 degrees ( it may be 180 degrees out of time. This sometimes happens with these when a belt breaks and the belts are replaced opposite of how they where before. Ex. pass belt was straight up, driver straight down before, now pass straight down, driver straight up). This is a non interference engine so even if you slip up somewhere, you shouldnt damage valves, piston, etc like interference motors. 

Best of luck with it, and keep enjoying that vehicle. They are awesome.

[idosubaru]

Ignore TDC and free wheeling cam, doesn't matter, this is real simple:

1. Align flywheel mark and drivers cam down to 6 o'clock then install passengers belt onto cam aligned to12 noon to timing cover notch. 

Done.  If you think of a question you're inventing confusion. 

Although it needs a new drivers side belt and new timing pulleys to be reliable.  The chance of another failure are extremely high due to age. 

If you want to be cheap you can get a needle fitting for a grease gun and refill the pulleys and never replace them.  They'll last forever and won't fail that way.  Just regrease them when you change the belts ever 50k or 7-8 years.  EA82 stuff is inexpensive so there isn't much need but I do it on unavailable pulleys unavailable in other Subaru engines. 

[idosubaru]

12 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

Are EJs free spinners? IE no bendy valves if belt slips or breaks

 

8 hours ago, Rampage said:

Not all of them.

1996 and earlier are non-interference.

1997 and up are interference. 

Although there's enough EJ swapping over the decades that it's wise to be careful assuming a 199x Subaru has a 199x engine. 

[subaru1988]

9 hours ago, loyalematt said:

...Recheck belt tension and you are good to go..the cam seals can be done in the car ...This is also the best time to check that water pump in the vehicle. There is an o-ring on the pipe that seats in the side of the water pump your hose connects to that is notorious for leaking on these. You can also check for excessive free play or rough bearings in the pump, along with any potential leaks. That o-ring would be my first suspicion.

...You may have to rotate the distributor 180 degrees ( it may be 180 degrees out of time. This sometimes happens with these when a belt breaks and the belts are replaced opposite of how they where before. Ex. pass belt was straight up, driver straight down before, now pass straight down, driver straight up). This is a non interference engine so even if you slip up somewhere, you shouldnt damage valves, piston, etc like interference motors. 

Best of luck with it, and keep enjoying that vehicle. They are awesome.

Guys, I'll be doing both belts and the other parts that go with it, and that maybe includes a water pump. I THINK the w/pump has about 70K on it currently, which isn't a ton, but as I said, I had a drip drip while running and just after shutdown coming from somewhere that was dripping off the bottom of the timing covers- most concentrated right under where the pump is. It wasn't the bypass hose I changed, and honestly, I looked as closely at the pump pipe connection as I could, and I couldn't see any real wetness. I want to see the bottom weep hole on the pump and/or the actual gasket to the block. TBH, I have the belts and pulley already off, and the pump doesn't seem rough or have play in the bearings when I spin it..Still, something is dripping.

5 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Ignore TDC and free wheeling cam, doesn't matter, this is real simple:

1. Align flywheel mark and drivers cam down to 6 o'clock then install passengers belt onto cam aligned to12 noon to timing cover notch. 

Done.  If you think of a question you're inventing confusion. 

Although it needs a new drivers side belt and new timing pulleys to be reliable.  The chance of another failure are extremely high due to age. 

If you want to be cheap you can get a needle fitting for a grease gun and refill the pulleys and never replace them.  They'll last forever and won't fail that way.  Just regrease them when you change the belts ever 50k or 7-8 years.  EA82 stuff is inexpensive so there isn't much need but I do it on unavailable pulleys unavailable in other Subaru engines. 

I see what you're saying, and I think one issue in my head is the fact that #1 is actually on the PASSENGER side. That's basically what you're saying with what you first wrote, right? My thing is as loyalematt said above, I don't want to have to mess around with the distributor being 180 out if I don't have to, and it sounds like if I follow what you wrote I won't.

It's fortunate the parts for Subarus tend to be pretty cheap overall. That kind of makes it nice, because it makes cheaping out not really worth it. I don't have lots of money to throw at it, but I've known this car and how it's been maintained since 10K, and even at 258K, the cost of parts and my labor makes this a job worth trying. Honestly, it could use new axles too, but even they don't cost an arm and a leg. FWIW, the timing belt stuff and the axles are kind of heavy duty periodic "maintenance" in a way. I say that, yet many of you guys get these jobs done in less than an hour so.. :P

Again, thanks so much for input. I know this topic has been talked about ad nauseum, but I wasn't asking exactly how to do it, but for tips/input to maybe make it somewhat easier the first time since I do understand the gist of the process and have a fair amount of mechanical know how.

Edited September 30, 2020 by subaru1988

[carfreak85]

Don't buy aftermarket replacement axles, re-grease and reboot your stockers, they simply outlast anything "remanufactured."

[DaveT]

I've done timing belts loads of times.  Never once had to re position the distributor.   Line up the marks, put belts on, as described previously.

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, subaru1988 said:

I think one issue in my head is the fact that #1 is actually on the PASSENGER side. That's basically what you're saying with what you first wrote, right?

Like I said:

7 hours ago, idosubaru said:

If you think of a question you're inventing confusion. 

Ignore any references or talk about #1, that's like asking if needs to be a full moon when you change a timing belt.  you can be completely clueless about what "#1" means and get timing belts right every time.  follow my directions.  there's no concerns about the disty being out.

I'd replace the water pump.  EA82's aren't known for lasting long, they have a long shaft which isn't forgiving on internal seals, and if it's not OEM definitely replace.  the aftermarket gaskets can be flimsy cheap cardboard.  Get OEM and/or give them some help with water pump gasket tack.  particularly if the mating surface on the engine is rough and/or you can't clean it. 

Axles are often fine - the grease is just ancient- just regrease them.  If they're original the grease is nearly gone and runny and terrible and you definitely want to keep OEM axles...high miles but if they're OEM they are worth regreasing.  They can easily last the life of the vehicle if they're Subaru axles. If they're aftermarket they likely didn't come with good grease or enough grease out of the box.  Regreasing them will quiet them down if they're noisy and alleviate vibrations.  Ideally you take them off and clean them but you could just try to stuff some grease in there insitu...with that same needle fitting i mentioned for the timing bearings too, although I don't recommend that, it's a hack.  Granted if they're aftermarket they're junk to begin with but so is whatever new aftermarket axle you have.  

[subaru1988]

3 hours ago, carfreak85 said:

Don't buy aftermarket replacement axles, re-grease and reboot your stockers, they simply outlast anything "remanufactured."

I hate to say it, but the car has gone through 2 sets of axles on both sides, and I didn't do the job. The stockers are long gone, I'm sure. It's a 5 speed, if that makes any difference axle performance wise.

 

2 hours ago, DaveT said:

I've done timing belts loads of times.  Never once had to re position the distributor.   Line up the marks, put belts on, as described previously.

Glad to hear this!

1 hour ago, idosubaru said:

Like I said:

Ignore any references or talk about #1, that's like asking if needs to be a full moon when you change a timing belt.  you can be completely clueless about what "#1" means and get timing belts right every time.  follow my directions.  there's no concerns about the disty being out.

I'd replace the water pump.  EA82's aren't known for lasting long, they have a long shaft which isn't forgiving on internal seals, and if it's not OEM definitely replace.  the aftermarket gaskets can be flimsy cheap cardboard.  Get OEM and/or give them some help with water pump gasket tack.  particularly if the mating surface on the engine is rough and/or you can't clean it. 

Axles are often fine - the grease is just ancient- just regrease them.  If they're original the grease is nearly gone and runny and terrible and you definitely want to keep OEM axles...high miles but if they're OEM they are worth regreasing.  They can easily last the life of the vehicle if they're Subaru axles. If they're aftermarket they likely didn't come with good grease or enough grease out of the box.  Regreasing them will quiet them down if they're noisy and alleviate vibrations.  Ideally you take them off and clean them but you could just try to stuff some grease in there insitu...with that same needle fitting i mentioned for the timing bearings too, although I don't recommend that, it's a hack.  Granted if they're aftermarket they're junk to begin with but so is whatever new aftermarket axle you have.  

Thanks for the advice. I will take your suggestions on the marks. The water pump has been done 3 or 4 times, so it's not OEM. Speaking of that, do most water pumps come with a new radiator pipe O-ring? Speaking of radiator, probably need a new one of those too. For some reason the copper cooling fins seem to want to come out in a few isolated spots! No leaks or anything, but it's the original radiator. I know that for sure. Not sure what that's about.  I had a scraping noise last year that was intermittent, and I guess I found it with those cooling fins hitting the electric fan blades. If I could fix the rad, I would. Again- seriously glad parts for the old Subarus are priced reasonably.

My axles click when turned, but are pretty much silent when straight. The boots are shot, but I've run them like this for longer than I care to admit. As goofy as it sounds, I have been stuffing grease in the open boot, and it did help a little noise and vibration wise.

All of these great tips has given me much more confidence than I had going into this, and I'm grateful for that.

Edited September 30, 2020 by subaru1988

[idosubaru]

I’ve run front axles 50,000 miles while clicking with open boots.  Not a big deal with oem axles if they only see clean roads. Sand gravel etc is bad mojo.  I could do that in Atlanta and Maryland with consistent roads, but not where I live now. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by idosubaru

[Step-a-toe]

5 hours ago, DaveT said:

I've done timing belts loads of times.  Never once had to re position the distributor.   Line up the marks, put belts on, as described previously.

About only time dizzy needs readjust is if it has had adjustment to make up the tune due to slack or stretched timing belts

[Ionstorm66]

37 minutes ago, Step-a-toe said:

About only time dizzy needs readjust is if it has had adjustment to make up the tune due to slack or stretched timing belts

The dizzy is geared 1:2 to the cam so it matches the engine. So if you rotated the cam a full rotation it can be out of sync.

[DaveT]

If the fine copper fins are coming off the tubes, that radiator is shot.  The fins not only remove the heat, they support the flat sides of the tubes.  Without the fins, they flex under pressure, and eventually stress fracture.  Loosing coolant is the quickest way to require a head gasket job or worse.

 

[subaru1988]

1 hour ago, Ionstorm66 said:

The dizzy is geared 1:2 to the cam so it matches the engine. So if you rotated the cam a full rotation it can be out of sync.

That's what I hope to avoid. 

49 minutes ago, DaveT said:

If the fine copper fins are coming off the tubes, that radiator is shot.  The fins not only remove the heat, they support the flat sides of the tubes.  Without the fins, they flex under pressure, and eventually stress fracture.  Loosing coolant is the quickest way to require a head gasket job or worse.

 

Yea, that's what I suspected. I'll be spending the money for a new one. Like I said, I'm glad the parts are pretty cheap!

4 hours ago, idosubaru said:

I’ve run front axles 50,000 miles while clicking with open boots.  Not a big deal with oem axles if they only see clean roads. Sand gravel etc is bad mojo.  I could do that in Atlanta and Maryland with consistent roads, but not where I live now. 

HAHA..I don't doubt it. These cars are tough. I'll probably try to run them just a little longer. The boots are shot, but like I said, I'm not getting a ton of noise.

I had a little time today, and I've had the ancillaries off for a while now, so I took the R/L covers off. The drivers side belt was broken as I suspected. I'm not seeing where the coolant leak is at yet.

[DaveT]

I just dug through my spare parts.  Found a cam carrier with a distributor.  1 turn of the cam pulley makes one turn on the distributor.   1:1 gears.  All you have to do is line up the timing marks.