Timing Belts/Kit '88 EA82 Tricks or Tips?

[Step-a-toe]

I should have written instructions at the time I took these pics some years ago.

They were not for setting belts now I recall. It is for setting the Series One dizzy.

So, as labels state, these are at #1 TDC not 20° as stated an hour ago

You can see the cut outs where the gold marker outline skips on the plastic belt backings. These are dead line ball with where can carrier body sits on head, so this must be the line guys use when they run naked belts.

Where I put red stickers to indicate the ~3mm hole - these holes are observed opposite each other in these pics and when installing timing belts and cheating by not doing the one full flywheel revolution between belts.

So I think when the three soldiers lll are lined up on the middle brother, dizzy side is tiny hole dead at six o'clock, turbo side dead at 12

Do one full rotate to check tiny holes opposite each other again, switching the 12 and 6 clock positions.

When in these pictures positions, I have one more pic for how Series One dizzy should look and there is about a 25 though "gap" before the two bits line up

Edited October 1, 2020 by Step-a-toe

[Step-a-toe]

This is how things line up under dizzy cap and two pics above with flywheel at 20° mark .Starts first time for me, then adjust with timing light at correct revs etc

 

[subaru1988]

13 hours ago, DaveT said:

I just dug through my spare parts.  Found a cam carrier with a distributor.  1 turn of the cam pulley makes one turn on the distributor.   1:1 gears.  All you have to do is line up the timing marks. 

That's great. Thanks so much for looking at this, I really appreciate it. Takes the mystery out of it!

Step-a-Toe, thanks a lot for those pics and that information, too. It helps. I have to say that I'm pretty embarrassed at the condition of my timing covers compared to those :O Those are spotless, and mine, well..Let's just say the last shop who did the job probably just threw the new belts over the old sludge. The belts have no name or anything on them, so they were probably the cheapest ones they could get. Maybe getting 37k miles out of them was doing alright.

Edited October 1, 2020 by subaru1988

[Step-a-toe]

The cam belt wheel has 36 teeth , convenient when full circle is 360° and you can divide by 10

If I think about it I have never counted the crank wheel but guessing theory suggests 18? to get the 1:2 or 2:1 thing

So if your covers are grubby and not melted, a steel rule applied to the line of the head to cam carrier housing should line right through centre of those two larger holes when on TDC#1 and looking at small single holes each side should be 180° difference between dizzy side and turbo side.

Dizzy should look like mine and #1 cap post and lead the closest to firewall, almost like 12 o'clock position looking from radiator

[subaru1988]

Quick update- I had some extra time today, so I thought I'd do a few things. It turns out that I forgot that the previous owner bought a "flywheel stopper" for the manual transmission, and it was in the smugglers hatch in the back  . I thought, great, but the top of the thing kept hitting the "pitching stopper?(WTF)" and knocking it sideways regardless of what hole I tried in the flywheel. I want to try the tool before using the starter on the bolt. I think the tool was down far enough, but does the pitching stopper actually have to be moved to use the tool? I was leery about removing this because it looks like it holds the tranny up! If I do resort to the starter trick, to be clear, the breaker bar rests ON TOP OF that mud shield under the battery, right? Not under it?

I also made a quick "tool" to turn the driver's side camshaft sprocket, but man that thing is hard to turn, and I have to do it without a belt/crank pulley help because that side belt broke which obviously complicates this process. I can get about 1/4 turn on it, and it seems to rebound back. Is that normal? I don't want to force anything and create a new problem. I thought about putting a 10mm socket on one of the bolts and giving it a go, but I don't want to snap the damn head off. Thanks!

Edited October 3, 2020 by subaru1988

[Ionstorm66]

32 minutes ago, subaru1988 said:

Quick update- I had some extra time today, so I thought I'd do a few things. It turns out that I forgot that the previous owner bought a "flywheel stopper" for the manual transmission, and it was in the smugglers hatch in the back  . I thought, great, but the top of the thing kept hitting the "pitching stopper?(WTF)" and knocking it sideways regardless of what hole I tried in the flywheel. I want to try the tool before using the starter on the bolt. I think the tool was down far enough, but does the pitching stopper actually have to be moved to use the tool? I was leery about removing this because it looks like it holds the tranny up! If I do resort to the starter trick, to be clear, the breaker bar rests ON TOP OF that mud shield under the battery, right? Not under it?

I also made a quick "tool" to turn the driver's side camshaft sprocket, but man that thing is hard to turn, and I have to do it without a belt/crank pulley help because that side belt broke which obviously complicates this process. I can get about 1/4 turn on it, and it seems to rebound back. Is that normal? I don't want to force anything and create a new problem. Thanks!

I have always put the car in 5th, locked the e brake, and use a breaker bar on the crank bolt. Takes a pipe some times.

 

Do you know about the service position for the hood stay? 

 

With the cams you are opening the valves. It will snap forward once you get them open all the way.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Ionstorm66

[subaru1988]

13 minutes ago, Ionstorm66 said:

I have always put the car in 5th, locked the e brake, and use a breaker bar on the crank bolt. Takes a pipe some times.

 

Do you know about the service position for the hood stay? 

 

With the cams you are opening the valves. It will snap forward once you get them open all the way.

1) OK

2) No

3)My driver cam sprocket is basically in the same spot as Step-a-Toes 1st pic. Obviously no belt = no fun.

[DaveT]

Do NOT try to turn a cam with the pulley mounting bolt, it will snap.

Get a short bar of aluminum or steel.  8" - 12" long.  Drill 20 holes in it, that line up with 2 of the holes in the edge of the pulley.  1/4" bolts through the holes, poke into the holes on the pulley, and you can easily turn the cam.  When the cam is in the belt install 0posuition, the valve springs will not be interfering with setting the position. 

 

[Ionstorm66]

The service position on the hood makes it vertical and gets the hood stay out of your way.

 

If you look on the hood there is the slot with the arrow, that is the normal spot. To the right of it is a second slot. 

Now look on the strut tower, there is a hole next to the bolt for the tire holder bar.

If you remove the hood stay from the radiator support, you can put the bottom in the hole by the strut stop, and the top in the second hole in the hood.

Now the hood will be vertical, and the hood and stay will be out of your way will working on the engine.

[subaru1988]

42 minutes ago, DaveT said:

Do NOT try to turn a cam with the pulley mounting bolt, it will snap.

Get a short bar of aluminum or steel.  8" - 12" long.  Drill 20 holes in it, that line up with 2 of the holes in the edge of the pulley.  1/4" bolts through the holes, poke into the holes on the pulley, and you can easily turn the cam.  When the cam is in the belt install 0posuition, the valve springs will not be interfering with setting the position. 

 

I'm glad I decided not to try moving it with the 10 mm socket. I know those bolts are on there less than 10 ft. lbs, right? I created a tool kind of like what you wrote, but out of what I thought was a sturdy piece of wood. It worked somewhat, but it eventually split from the force I was applying. I'll see what I can wrangle up. Thanks!

34 minutes ago, Ionstorm66 said:

The service position on the hood makes it vertical and gets the hood stay out of your way.

 

If you look on the hood there is the slot with the arrow, that is the normal spot. To the right of it is a second slot. 

Now look on the strut tower, there is a hole next to the bolt for the tire holder bar.

If you remove the hood stay from the radiator support, you can put the bottom in the hole by the strut stop, and the top in the second hole in the hood.

Now the hood will be vertical, and the hood and stay will be out of your way will working on the engine.

That's really interesting. I'll take a look at it and use this the next go around. That will really help to NOT run into the hood prop when it's in the normal spot. Thanks!

Edited October 3, 2020 by subaru1988

[Ionstorm66]

You can take an old belt, wrap it around the pulley, then pinch it with some vice grips. Basically use the old belt as a strap wrench.

[DaveT]

I'd have to look up the torque, but yeah, it's around 10.   And they are not grade 8 bolts even.

[idosubaru]

strap wrench makes it super easy to turn cam. 

Bolts strip more than shear in my experience. Rust may cause variance.   I use the bolts sometimes but I’ve done it enough to get away with it now. Don’t do it.

use one of the old belts as a wrap and go from there.  It can be done by hand with the old belt or vice grips squeezed around the sprocket.

[Step-a-toe]

3 hours ago, DaveT said:

Do NOT try to turn a cam with the pulley mounting bolt, it will snap.

Get a short bar of aluminum or steel.  8" - 12" long.  Drill 20 holes in it, that line up with 2 of the holes in the edge of the pulley.  1/4" bolts through the holes, poke into the holes on the pulley, and you can easily turn the cam.  When the cam is in the belt install 0posuition, the valve springs will not be interfering with setting the position. 

 

I made a tool from a spare pulley, M6 bolts poke through into same holes on fitted pulley, 17 mm nut and bolt tight up on centre hole.

[subaru1988]

19 hours ago, Ionstorm66 said:

You can take an old belt, wrap it around the pulley, then pinch it with some vice grips. Basically use the old belt as a strap wrench.

That service hood slot is great! Thanks for the tip! That makes it a ton easier to move around on that side. I'll be giving the old belt as a strap wrench + vice grip clamping the belt a whirl. That's a good idea. I wish I had a vice grip big enough to grip that whole pulley  That side is tough. I wish it was the other side where it's easier to grab the pulley. I've considered buying a strap wrench because I can use it for other stuff, but I'll try the belt first.

[Ionstorm66]

22 minutes ago, subaru1988 said:

That service hood slot is great! Thanks for the tip! That makes it a ton easier to move around on that side. I'll be giving the old belt as a strap wrench + vice grip clamping the belt a whirl. That's a good idea. I wish I had a vice grip big enough to grip that whole pulley  That side is tough. I wish it was the other side where it's easier to grab the pulley. I've considered buying a strap wrench because I can use it for other stuff, but I'll try the belt first.

I would buy a chain grip pair of vice grips before a strap wrench. You can always use a old belt/rag between the chain and the part with them. I have never had a strap wrench take off something I couldn't by hand. Meanwhile a pair of chain grips will grab an axle hard enough to break the castle nut free with no diff.

 

$8 with a coupon https://www.harborfreight.com/locking-chain-clamp-36813.html

 

Also if you have trouble with the distributor side, pull the ac/alt AND the bracket. Without the bracket you have much better access.

Also you can remove the little splash guards under the car. One bolt to the bottom rad support, and one bolt inside the wheel well. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Ionstorm66

[el_freddo]

On 10/1/2020 at 10:27 AM, Ionstorm66 said:

The dizzy is geared 1:2 to the cam so it matches the engine. So if you rotated the cam a full rotation it can be out of sync.

Stop confusing things @Ionstorm66!! If you follow the procedure properly you can’t stuff it up. Line up the cam timing marks on the flywheel, pistons are mid cylinder. So it doesn’t matter as long as the dizzy cam wheel is aligned with its mark when the belt is put on. 

What DOES REALLY MATTER is the one crank rotation between fitting the second belt. Without this rotation the engine will only ever run on one bank or the other when messing with the dizzy position (rotating 180 degrees). 

On 10/1/2020 at 12:55 PM, DaveT said:

I just dug through my spare parts.  Found a cam carrier with a distributor.  1 turn of the cam pulley makes one turn on the distributor.   1:1 gears.  All you have to do is line up the timing marks. 

Correct. The 2:1 confusion is from crank rotations. 

On 9/30/2020 at 9:30 PM, idosubaru said:

If you think of a question you're inventing confusion. 

^this!!*

On 9/30/2020 at 9:20 AM, Step-a-toe said:

I am surprised Bennie gave three lines before plugging an EJ conversion !

Are EJs free spinners? IE no bendy valves if belt slips or breaks

Pfft, more of an option mention than a plug! 

As @idosubaru said about the EJs - early ‘90s. The real trick is looking at the cam followers/rocker arms. If they’re HLA, non interference. If they’re solid with adjusters, they’re interference. 

Only time you’ll snap an EJ belt through poor maintenance with an idler bearing seizing. Or copping a stick through the cam cover, I almost did that job once!

Cheers 

Bennie

*unless the question is “should I just EJ this?”

Edited October 5, 2020 by el_freddo

[wysubey]

For my timing belt tension, I used a 2-pin spanner into the cam gear holes. Mine is 1 foot long. Left side you will pull from the underside outwards, right side from the top outwards. Using a luggage scale and a ratchet strap tied to a tree or other solid object you can pull at a right angle to the spanner to pull the proper tension on the cam sprockets. I didn't have a luggage scale, so I just put 17-19lb of water or rocks in a bucket over a pulley. Voilla- 19 lbs at 1 foot with no special tools. I initially did the Miles "close enough" hand tensions but I don't trust that, belt was flapping around too loose for my liking. Also, after checking my spark timing it was off, so I realized I was off 1 tooth on the crank sprocket. Because of the 1:2 ratio, it can be hard to notice that small difference. Re-check the spark timing because old stretched belts can cause it to be off compared to new belts and tensioners. Another mistake I made was to replace the 2 crank pulleys inverted which made the LH belt track too far inboard. Pushed the inner flange off the oil pump sprocket. JB weld has held so far. They're tough to tell the difference. +1 for open covers, I would have not been able to make these adjustments after the fact with them on. Timing belt is part of my normal weekly maintenance check now.

[Ionstorm66]

15 minutes ago, wysubey said:

For my timing belt tension, I used a 2-pin spanner into the cam gear holes. Mine is 1 foot long. Left side you will pull from the underside outwards, right side from the top outwards. Using a luggage scale and a ratchet strap tied to a tree or other solid object you can pull at a right angle to the spanner to pull the proper tension on the cam sprockets. I didn't have a luggage scale, so I just put 17-19lb of water or rocks in a bucket over a pulley. Voilla- 19 lbs at 1 foot with no special tools. I initially did the Miles "close enough" hand tensions but I don't trust that, belt was flapping around too loose for my liking. Also, after checking my spark timing it was off, so I realized I was off 1 tooth on the crank sprocket. Because of the 1:2 ratio, it can be hard to notice that small difference. Re-check the spark timing because old stretched belts can cause it to be off compared to new belts and tensioners. Another mistake I made was to replace the 2 crank pulleys inverted which made the LH belt track too far inboard. Pushed the inner flange off the oil pump sprocket. JB weld has held so far. They're tough to tell the difference. +1 for open covers, I would have not been able to make these adjustments after the fact with them on. Timing belt is part of my normal weekly maintenance check now.

I've always just put a little pressure on the tensioner pulley with a pry bar against the water pump. My old car went almost 100k like that, never had any issues. The passenger side I just push up on it from the ground, it's a lot easier to get to.

[djellum]

im a bit nit picky on getting the teeth exactly right.  couple tricks I do.

tap a pin into the lineup hole on the cam sprocket, it helps you see if the notches are lined up from above.  Dont forget to remove it.  

once you get the marks lined up to the cover turn the cam sprocket just a bit back when putting the belt on.  if you dont you will likely see the marks move ahead to far once you release the tensioner.  backing it up just a bit helps keep the lower half tight under tension without dragging the sprocket too far out of alignment.  also helps the belt slide on smooth.

these cars are pretty forgiving on the timing, but I like to make sure the marks are exactly in the right spot once the tensioners are set.

[subaru1988]

On 9/30/2020 at 5:30 AM, idosubaru said:

Ignore TDC and free wheeling cam, doesn't matter, this is real simple:

1. Align flywheel mark and drivers cam down to 6 o'clock then install passengers belt onto cam aligned to12 noon to timing cover notch. 

Done.  If you think of a question you're inventing confusion. 

I had a little time yesterday to mess around with it, so I used the broken timing belt as a strap wrench with a vise grip. Worked great! My index hole on the DRIVER side is now at 6:00. I took the radiator out beforehand because it needs a new one and the clearance I then had was what I needed. The crank pulley is also off after I took off the "pitching rod" to use the Subaru flywheel tool I have, which worked pretty good. I'm pretty sure the leak I have is from the pipe going into the water pump, not the pump itself. I'm as cheap as the next guy, but I'm strongly considering a new pump since this one has around 70K on it, and it's not OEM. I would assume all new pumps come with a new O-ring?

So...I'm going with the above quote. DRIVER side alignment hole @ 6:00  and is now aligned with the top notch (checked with a straight edge), and of course I put the PASSENGER side at 12:00 before I take that belt off so I can go from there. This is basically the same but vice versa as in the Miles video, right?

I appreciate all the tips, they've really helped. I like the water/rock tips and the idea of backing off a little on the camshaft mark to get it to align when the new belt is on.

[DaveT]

I have had good luck with the highest level water pumps from NAPA.  They came with the o ring and a gasket.

 

[el_freddo]

It doesn’t matter which cam is at 12 and 6 o’clock, so long as both aren’t at the same and the crank lines up each revolution. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[subaru1988]

13 hours ago, el_freddo said:

If there’s any melted rubber on the crank or cam wheels, clean this off - ALL of it! It’s not fun.

It doesn’t matter which cam is at 12 and 6 o’clock, so long as both aren’t at the same and the crank lines up each revolution. 

Cheers 

Bennie

Looks like I'll be cleaning a lot of sludge before I get it all back together. Probably some melted rubber in there too

Glad to hear I can skip moving the driver side cam sprocket to 12:00 because it being at 6:00 and the passenger being at 12:00 is basically the same as the "standard" way of doing it. Just trusting but verifying

Edited October 9, 2020 by subaru1988

[Step-a-toe]

18 hours ago, el_freddo said:

It doesn’t matter which cam is at 12 and 6 o’clock, so long as both aren’t at the same and the crank lines up each revolution. 

Cheers 

Bennie

And where the rotor points is important