Electrical issue, starter issue?

[Ride_The_Snake]

Hello folks, just looking for any insight as I diagnose a problem with my old wagon.

'96 Leggy.  Daily driver.  After sitting two days, come to find a dead dead battery--no accessories work.  Fails to jump, giving only enough juice to accessories.  Zero action from starter--no solenoid click, no nothing.

Battery has only 8V.  It's a two year old Duralast Gold.  When i got this battery I also put in a new alternator, as the old one had gone bad and wasn't charging.  I had had no charging system or battery issues since.

Duralast was still under 3 year warranty so, put in the replacement.  Clean terminals, apply electrical conductor goop.  Accessories light up, zero action from the starter.

Starter connections look good visually, but have not tested voltage to it.

Wired my multimeter in series with the battery and i have a 3.4A draw when everything is off.  I don't have any weird aftermarket accessories or alarms.

I pulled every single fuse in both panels and didn't see the load drop down.  

I am at a loss as to what to test next, but Im wondering if i have multiple, possibly separate issues (the load on the battery when it's all off, and the starter being unresponsive).

Thanks for reading and any input you may have.

[lmdew]

Disconnect your neg terminal.  Remove the two small wires from the ALT top 10mm nut.  Hook up you battery and see if you still have the draw.

Was it an aftermarket Alt?

Are you getting the click from the Starter?

Good wack with a block of wood sometimes gets the starter going.

Could also try jumping the starter terminals.

[Rampage]

Wow, that's what I was going to say, Alternators can can go bad and drain the battery.

Check the amp draw as you disconnect all wires from the alternator.

Get a set of jumper cables and hook only the black connectors to battery negative and the engine. See if it cranks. Then hook the red connectors to the battery positive and the stud on the starter. See if it starts. That will check the battery cables.

When you turn the key to start, 12v should show up on the spade terminal on the starter.

[Ride_The_Snake]

Thanks guys, I will try to do what you suggest.

 

Quote

Get a set of jumper cables and hook only the black connectors to battery negative and the engine. See if it cranks.

Am I just making my own ground strap in that case, to ensure I don't have a poor ground issue?  Like, Just going from negative post to somewhere on the engine or frame?

I am getting no click from the starter whatsoever.

It's not an aftermarket alt, it's OEM for a Mitsubishi Eclipse iirc, and is apparently the same model as what goes in my Legacy.  I got it from a reputable local shop that just sells starters and alternators.  And it's only two years old.

Even if I discover my alt is bad and is the source of the draw, I still don't understand why a brand new battery isn't cranking the starter at all, as seems to be the case by the lack of any solenoid click.  Comorbidity, I'm assuming for now.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Ride_The_Snake

[Ride_The_Snake]

Unrelated note, but this car had a single owner before me and was obviously very well taken care of aside from their possibly poor shifting technique (THIRD?! gear is very crunchy and its 50k clutch is almost gone).  Got it at 250k, its now at 281k.  95% sure the rear main seal and possibly oil separator are leaking.  Worth spending $900 to get that fixed?  The motor still feels strong for what it is, but it's hard to justify dropping a grand just for a seal on an ancient ej22.  But who knows, it might have another 50k left in it.  Anyone got an opinion on that?  Btw, I've been ignoring it for well over a year and the smell of oil burning off the exhaust is embarrassing.

[Rampage]

1 hour ago, Ride_The_Snake said:

Just going from negative post to somewhere on the engine or frame?

Do both, it will help in the long run.

Let's see if the starter works. This is a MT? Block the wheels and put it in neutral. Take a wire from the battery positive down to the small spade connector on the starter. It will crank if the starter is good. If you turn the IGN key to on, the engine should start and run.

Or, you could look for voltage on that terminal when you turn the key to start. I like doing the above because it shows me something.

Check the Fusible Links in the box under the hood.

[Ride_The_Snake]

Yeah, I will do so and follow up.  Just too dark tonight after work and I don't feel like tweaking out with my headlamp.  And yeah it's a 5MT.  But I already went through pulling all the fuses on both panels (twice because i didn't trust my attention), and found no drop in the load.  So I guess the only culprit could be non-fused circuits like starter and alt.

I appreciate the help, guys.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Ride_The_Snake

[heartless]

15 hours ago, Ride_The_Snake said:

Unrelated note, but this car had a single owner before me and was obviously very well taken care of aside from their possibly poor shifting technique (THIRD?! gear is very crunchy and its 50k clutch is almost gone).  Got it at 250k, its now at 281k.  95% sure the rear main seal and possibly oil separator are leaking.  Worth spending $900 to get that fixed?  The motor still feels strong for what it is, but it's hard to justify dropping a grand just for a seal on an ancient ej22.  But who knows, it might have another 50k left in it.  Anyone got an opinion on that?  Btw, I've been ignoring it for well over a year and the smell of oil burning off the exhaust is embarrassing.

I doubt very much it is the rear main seal... 99.99% positive it is the separator plate only that is the source of the leak. been there, done that, several times on multiple cars. (two 1990 models, and a 95)

If the car is in otherwise good shape, and has been well cared for, yeah, it could quite easily get at least another 50k, probably more.

is it worth doing? only you can decide that... if you are looking at a new clutch anyway.. do the clutch and the separator plate at the same time and be good to go. Would also suggest doing a complete timing job while it is down.. belt, cam & front crank seals, pulleys, water pump.. reseal oil pump... Then it would most definitely be ready to rock for many miles.

[1 Lucky Texan]

gummy PCV valve might increase pressure and exacerbate any leaks.

 

but, yeah, read many times of hemorrhaging separator plates, can't recall reading about any rear mains leaking.

[Ride_The_Snake]

The diode in my alt had taken a dump on me, as it turned out.  Shop I had bought it from gave me half off a replacement, since it shouldn't have happened but was outside the 1 year warranty.

I thought all was good until later today at work, she wouldn't start.  Luckily I was on a slope so I could push start, then later the starter worked fine, then nada yet again, then I tried a couple whacks on it with the dead blow hammer and freed it. I guess it's so small a unit you can't even hear the stuck solenoid click.  I'll pop a new one in there.  That explains why it wasnt cranking with the old alt in there with a fresh battery.

Thanks for the help, guys! 

And appreciate the info about the oil separator, although I'm figuring the cost in labor is about the same as the rear main seal, yeah?  And I'm strongly considering a new clutch and definitely the timing kit while it's up there.  I know I could do the timing myself but I can't afford for this thing to have downtime beyond a weekend if something goes wrong.

After borrowing my roommate's raggedy-azz 2010ish Civic, I have a renewed depth of appreciation for how well the Legacy rides and for its boxter engine that doesn't sound like a buzzsaw.

Cheers

Edited October 13, 2020 by Ride_The_Snake

[brus brother]

Had a similar experience. USMB taught me about starters getting stuck.

Until I got around to replacing mine, I drove around with a 3' length of 2x3 so as to reach down to persuade it.

I'm sure I was a sight getting out of my car wielding a big stick... 

Edited October 13, 2020 by brus brother

[Ride_The_Snake]

You should see the "gas gauge" i keep for my '70 GMC--a 5' piece of marked 1"x1".  Just stick it in then look for the wet mark lol.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Ride_The_Snake

[heartless]

it is highly recommended to NOT touch the rear main seal.. unless it is very obviously damaged

if it were me, i would not mess with it.. like I said before, there is a 99.99% chance it is fine and the source of the leak is the separator plate.

One Legacy I had, the plate was leaking so badly that I had to put a quart of oil in about once a week... fixed the leaking plate and it was golden.

[1 Lucky Texan]

you can get contacts and even plungers to rebuild starter solenoids. There's even videos to show you how.

Edited October 13, 2020 by 1 Lucky Texan