idosubaru Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 2008 Legacy. Shop couldn’t dial camber in on the front left. It was 0.7 off before and 0.8 after. So it got worse? They said new struts would fix it. I thought that shouldn’t matter and if it did it would make this get worse, like lifting a Subaru pushes the top of the tire out. Edited October 25, 2020 by idosubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 The top adjustment bolt should move it Plus on Minus 1.75 Degrees. Did they say what range the adjustment goes from and to? Is the offset worn on the bolt, or wrong bolt? Control Arm bushings? Frame or strut bent? One shop that did the alignment on our 95 several years ago, said the Left Rear would not reach 0 on Toe. Turned out that the Left Rear Head Unit was defective on their alignment rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Rampage said: The top adjustment bolt should move it Plus on Minus 1.75 Degrees. Did they say what range the adjustment goes from and to? All they said was the struts looked good but it needed new struts. That's it. I don't think there are any issues with strut/frame etc. But I have new struts already to install so I'll check. This shop did my Tribeca years ago and said "There's no camber bolt on Subarus", which wasn't surprising as it's in an area of Ohio that had zero Subaru's 10 years ago (now they're everywhere). I described the top lower strut camber bolt to them. They asked me to drop it off another day and they fixed it. I'm wondering if they did the same thing again, that's just really hard to believe. I didn't ask due to the circumstances yesterday but they have an "alignment" warranty or something where they'll align it again if i want. I'll take it in again after I do the struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Most newer alignment machines show them all the adjustments. If they can read, they should be able to find them. Might want to consider a different shop. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 On cheap aftermarket front struts I have seen the lower spring perch on the strut bend down, effectively lowering the vehicle and changing the Camber. A weak, bent or broken spring will do the same thing. It changes because of the control arm pushing out or pulling in the bottom of the knuckle. When the vehicle is on the alignment rack, you can raise and lower the front and watch the Camber change. A good mechanic will do that and readjust for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 6 hours ago, lmdew said: Most newer alignment machines show them all the adjustments. If they can read, they should be able to find them. Might want to consider a different shop. Thanks. That’s nifty, didn’t know machines could show that. I like the guys, but should consider options. I’ll see where it lands after new struts and they check it again. Its a new facility and lots of new equipment. That’s no guarantee but it could easily be a newer machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Rampage said: On cheap aftermarket front struts I have seen the lower spring perch on the strut bend down, effectively lowering the vehicle and changing the Camber. A weak, bent or broken spring will do the same thing. It changes because of the control arm pushing out or pulling in the bottom of the knuckle. When the vehicle is on the alignment rack, you can raise and lower the front and watch the Camber change. A good mechanic will do that and readjust for it. I’ve got new struts in the garage so I’ll install those this week. They said “the struts are fine, they’re not leaking, but that one needs replaced”. I should have asked the tech what that means. I talked to the counter guy and was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think they’re OEM and no visual issues. I had them off this summer. They definitely perform poorly - harsh bangs on bumps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 1 hour ago, idosubaru said: They said “the struts are fine, they’re not leaking, but that one needs replaced”. I should have asked the tech what that means. I'm curious about that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 any rattle over bumps which could just be a bad top mount? but don't see this affecting your alignment issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, brus brother said: any rattle over bumps which could just be a bad top mount? but don't see this affecting your alignment issue. I doubt it. But I’ll see when I swap in new struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 14 hours ago, brus brother said: any rattle over bumps which could just be a bad top mount? but don't see this affecting your alignment issue. if the top mount bearing is shot, it would allow the strut shaft that goes thru it to move around, which could most definitely affect alignment. Wouldn't take much, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 .8 degrees would probably require an inch of movement at the top mount....you would have other symptoms... If it's out of range of the camber adjustment, then something is bent. Control arm would be noticeably buckled before it would cause that much of a difference. Knuckle is far stronger than the strut. There are aftermarket camber bolts that can be used, either to replace the factory one, or in addition to (replace the lower bolt). Or, try a new strut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, Numbchux said: .8 degrees would probably require an inch of movement at the top mount....you would have other symptoms... If it's out of range of the camber adjustment, then something is bent. Control arm would be noticeably buckled before it would cause that much of a difference. Knuckle is far stronger than the strut. There are aftermarket camber bolts that can be used, either to replace the factory one, or in addition to (replace the lower bolt). Or, try a new strut. Was hoping you'd chime in! Are camber bolts typically close to their limits on range of adjustment? New struts in my garage so I'll check that stuff when I install. I had the struts off in the summer, damage seems unlikely but definitely will check those things. I've repaired bent struts and control arms so I have some general familiarity with those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Right at the pivot between strut and knuckle wouldn't take much to be off by a degree, so you may not be able to spot it, but it might be fixed with new struts. The parts counter at the Subaru dealership where I worked was right in front of the alignment rack, it wasn't uncommon for techs to ask one of us to come out and pull on a tire while they tightened the bolts to get the camber in range, because the camber bolts couldn't quite get it there. But it was always pulling the camber towards the positive, as the stock stuff was too far negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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