Please help choose snow tires (Outback Onyx XT)

[jlggomez]

Hello forum members,

New member here and thanks in advance.

Seeking suggestions and opinions on the best snow tires for my new Subaru Outback Onyx Edition XT.  We live in a pretty secluded area in upstate NY where we have to drive on winding paved local roads as well as a mile long private community dirt road and a long steep private gravel driveway.  We get tons of snow and very cold temperatures which often results in icy conditions especially on our 300’ or so gravel driveway.  Last winter was our first winter with the new Outback and in spite of the claimed snow performance I felt that snow/ice performance was just OK.  I would like to kick things up a notch or two and want to buy snow tires for this and future winters.  Please share your experiences and any other thoughts and specific tire recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
 

Lino

Edited October 31, 2020 by jlggomez
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[forester2002s]

One of the features of snow tires, is that the rubber-compound is softer than on other tires.

This gives snow tires better grip on icy surfaces.

Do the 'fingernail test' on the rubber tread: stick your thumbnail into the face of the tread; compare different tires.

However (there's always a 'however'), soft rubber wears faster than hard rubber.  So good snow tires will wear out faster than regular tires.

[heartless]

for brands.. take a look at Mastercraft tires.. I am VERY happy with the tires I have had from them.. both all seasons and snow tires.

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, jlggomez said:

Hello forum members,

New member here and thanks in advance.

Seeking suggestions and opinions on the best snow tires for my new Subaru Outback Onyx Edition XT.  We live in a pretty secluded area in upstate NY where we have to drive on winding paved local roads as well as a mile long private community dirt road and a long steep private gravel driveway.  We get tons of snow and very cold temperatures which often results in icy conditions especially on our 300’ or so gravel driveway.  Last winter was our first winter with the new Outback and in spite of the claimed snow performance I felt that snow/ice performance was just OK.  I would like to kick things up a notch or two and want to buy snow tires for this and future winters.  Please share your experiences and any other thoughts and specific tire recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
 

Lino

I guarantee you won’t see better traction over the next 5 years until you buy:

1. studded

2. Nokian Winter tires

3.  or maybe if you buy Michellin X Ice (and maybe one other top rated) but replace them every 2-3 years.

cheaper tires are not as good. Some aren’t as good from day one. others are good the first year but slowly degrade. Year 2 is less, year 3 is significantly less.  I’ve seen cheap tires showing cracking and signs of degradation in 3 years.  The same is happening to less expensive models even if you can’t see it as easily.

here’s why many opinions are lacking:

urban areas where most people live are easy to drive in. They’re better maintained than rural areas/roads with no snow trucks and the driving alone helps clear the junk.

many people have flexible jobs and don’t drive (teachers) or flex work hours if the roads are bad  it’s easy to drive in snow with that flexibility.

many people live in flat areas. Ohio and much of the Midwest is a joke to drive in with snow.  Winter tires are nice and helpful but by no means a necessity unless you’re plowing snow with a slammed VTEC.  My current commute you will absolutely end up sliding off the road even with low grade snow tires going down a steep switch back unmaintained gravel road.  Once you start sliding the car can not be stopped and you hope to hit a snow bank or dirt before a tree.  

Many reviews and opinions you hear are people that have one, or more, of the above going on. They likely reviewing conditions that aren’t anything like yours  . What works for them won’t work for you. I would have been one of those people 10 years ago and swore any of the good snow tires would be great. I’ve since learned otherwise.

I get the same average snow fall where I live now as other states I’ve lived in but it’s 3x harder and more dangerous due to the steep grades and unmaintained roads.  Even As an essential government worker, driving in states of emergency blizzards, I never “needed” snow tires, would have them sometimes and not others - until I started driving in the mountainous rural areas.  Now - the only way I could consistently drive is with studs and maybe Nokians  luckily I have more work flexibility now so it’s less important but I still don’t like feeling trapped so I need decent tires  

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by idosubaru

[el_freddo]

Interesting stuff. Side question: do you guy carry or use diamond pattern wheel chains?

Over here they’re mandatory in our small snow field areas - very useful and effective even with regular road tyres which many visitors run with due to the short period of their visit. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[jlggomez]

Thank you for your responses so far.  And thank you, idosubaru for the detailed response.

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, el_freddo said:

Interesting stuff. Side question: do you guy carry or use diamond pattern wheel chains?

Over here they’re mandatory in our small snow field areas - very useful and effective even with regular road tyres which many visitors run with due to the short period of their visit. 

Cheers 

Bennie

Depends on the person and where you are. tire regulations vary by state, region and even particular roads or mountain passes. Florida tends tropical commercial fruit farms and you can swim outside most of the year, while western NY contends with 8 feet of snow.

[idosubaru]

20 minutes ago, jlggomez said:

Thank you for your responses so far.  And thank you, idosubaru for the detailed response.

Sure thing.  I learned the hard way. No fun. Hope you figure it out quicker than me! With the right tires you’ll be way better than you described last year. 

[Numbchux]

I've been running dedicated snow tires for about 15 years, and about 10 of them on at least 2 cars (since I met my wife).  I've crewed for Rally teams at SnoDrift 6 years, and I've spent hundreds of hours ice racing on numerous tires. They will make a huge difference. Even the cheapest, off-brand, dedicated snow tire will perform better on snow and ice than the best all season.

That said, they're not all equal, some have larger openings between lugs, better for snow (the original Winterforce, or Yokohama A034 competition tire), some have a lot of siping to grip on the ice.

I live out in the country, but very rarely find myself in more than a dusting of snow beyond my driveway, so I'm concerned mostly with ice performance.

Studs and chains are not legal here.

IMHO, Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires cannot be beat. I've owned Qs, Rs, and 2 sets of R2s, and will be buying a set of R3s before this season is out.

Michelin X-Ice and Bridestone Blizzak are close behind. Nokian is a little weird about who can distribute them, so it may take some shopping around, whereas Michelin and Bridestone can be bought just about anywhere.

 

Beyond that I've used Cooper Weathermaster, Firestone Winterforce, Goodyear UltraGrip Ice, and General Altimax Arctic and been pretty similarly impressed. I also had a set of Falken Eurowinters, and was pretty unimpressed. Still better than an all season, but not much.

 

 

I also highly recommend having a separate set of wheels. Not only does it save the cost and wear of mounting and balancing, but the hassle as well. Tire shops up here are booked out for weeks this time of year, so you either have to put your snows on early and run them in warmer temperatures than you should, or drive in the first few snows on your all-seasons. When they first forecast a decent snowfall, I spend an hour or so in the garage the night before swapping the snows onto both our cars. And I can swap them off as soon as temperatures start to warm up, and occasionally have to swap them back if we get a late spring storm.

 

If you only run them when the ground temperatures are below about 40, they will generally last 30-50k miles.

[jlggomez]

Numbchux, thank you for the great post.  To follow up:

I was ready to buy a set of Nokians based on Idosubaru’s earlier recommendation here, but coincidentally my mechanic got in a set of the correct size (225/60R18) Blizzacks that a customer had used for one season (verifiable) on a vehicle that was sold.  I am leasing my Outback and not knowing whether I’ll keep it or not after the 3 year lease, it made sense to get the Blizzacks and save $500.  $250 for a set of Blizzacks seemed to good a deal to pass up.  Glad to hear that the Blizzacks are not far behind the Nokians.

On a related note.  I have had a love/hate relationship with the Outback Onyx Edition since the beginning of the lease last Winter.  As I mentioned, I have felt that in spite of all the claims about the superior snow handling, even with the X Mode on the Onyx I felt that the performance was not as great as I expected for our driving conditions.  I’m sure the Blizzacks will get it there. The Outback has handled beautifully on dry roads and actually reminds me a little of the Saab’s that I used to drive before family and kids.  Being old school I’m sometimes bothered by all the gadgetry, but the main problem for me has been the excessively bright headlights.  During nighttime driving I am constantly getting flashed by incoming drivers as if my brights were on when they are not.  I took it back to the dealer to check the alignment and was told everything is to spec and nothing can be done.  My impression from the driver’s seat is that there is little real advantage to switching on the brights as the increased illumination seems to be focused well above the plane of the road.  To my way of thinking this seems to confirm that the “Normal” headlights are too bright or aligned too high.  Any thoughts?
 

Thanks again to all; much appreciated.

Lino

[idosubaru]

5 hours ago, jlggomez said:

Numbchux, thank you for the great post.  To follow up:

I was ready to buy a set of Nokians based on Idosubaru’s earlier recommendation here, but coincidentally my mechanic got in a set of the correct size (225/60R18) Blizzacks that a customer had used for one season (verifiable) on a vehicle that was sold.  I am leasing my Outback and not knowing whether I’ll keep it or not after the 3 year lease, it made sense to get the Blizzacks and save $500.  $250 for a set of Blizzacks seemed to good a deal to pass up.  Glad to hear that the Blizzacks are not far behind the Nokians.

 

That's how a decision should be made, it's like a differential equation, not basic addition.  How many miles, how much sun will they see, how will it be used, how long you'll have it, how consistently you'll be able to avoid driving in temperatures above 40 degrees, etc...then decide.  If someone is going to store them outside, lives in an area with significant warm spells in the winter - buying cheaper snow tires and planning on replacing them ever 2-3 years can also be a good fit.

The blizzacks are great tires and are a perfect fit for many people.  Just know their limitations.  I have seen blizzacks notably worse on long distance commuters by the 3rd year, specifically on steep snow covered grades.  Great tires, take note each winter if they're loosing any of their youth - which in a sense is true of any tires seeing challenging uses - snow, ice, towing, racing... 

Edited November 3, 2020 by idosubaru

[Numbchux]

8 hours ago, jlggomez said:

Numbchux, thank you for the great post.  To follow up:

I was ready to buy a set of Nokians based on Idosubaru’s earlier recommendation here, but coincidentally my mechanic got in a set of the correct size (225/60R18) Blizzacks that a customer had used for one season (verifiable) on a vehicle that was sold.  I am leasing my Outback and not knowing whether I’ll keep it or not after the 3 year lease, it made sense to get the Blizzacks and save $500.  $250 for a set of Blizzacks seemed to good a deal to pass up.  Glad to hear that the Blizzacks are not far behind the Nokians.

On a related note.  I have had a love/hate relationship with the Outback Onyx Edition since the beginning of the lease last Winter.  As I mentioned, I have felt that in spite of all the claims about the superior snow handling, even with the X Mode on the Onyx I felt that the performance was not as great as I expected for our driving conditions.  I’m sure the Blizzacks will get it there. The Outback has handled beautifully on dry roads and actually reminds me a little of the Saab’s that I used to drive before family and kids.  Being old school I’m sometimes bothered by all the gadgetry, but the main problem for me has been the excessively bright headlights.  During nighttime driving I am constantly getting flashed by incoming drivers as if my brights were on when they are not.  I took it back to the dealer to check the alignment and was told everything is to spec and nothing can be done.  My impression from the driver’s seat is that there is little real advantage to switching on the brights as the increased illumination seems to be focused well above the plane of the road.  To my way of thinking this seems to confirm that the “Normal” headlights are too bright or aligned too high.  Any thoughts?
 

Thanks again to all; much appreciated.

Lino

 

Sounds like the perfect deal. My last set of Blizzaks was after I discovered Hakkas, but they were the size I needed for a great price.

 

When I worked at the dealership, we swapped out factory-equipped tires on a regular basis. Frequently for Nokian WRG3/WRG4s, which are an aggressive all-season.

 

Yea, based on your description, I would be adjusting those headlights down, regardless of what the dealership says. Do you regularly have any extra weight in the back? Obviously that would tilt the headlights up more.

[jlggomez]

Thanks.  No, no extra weight in the back.  Dealer claims they cannot be adjusted down.  Find it hard to believe.