2000-2004 Outback Struts on 2000 Legacy

[dirty_mech]

So I have a 2000 Legacy L Wagon and the exhaust scrapes the ground.  I bought 2000 Outback struts to put on it and get some lift as I've heard they are easy to swap.
 
I'm currently attempting to swap the rear struts, and have begun to suspect I've made a grave error.  The strut will not compress enough to meet the bolt hole in the trailing arm; it bottoms out about a centimeter below it.  I've tried pushing the trailing arm down but haven't had much luck.  I could loosen all the control arm bolts to see if that gives me enough wiggle room to get installed.  However, I've seen online that I may need rear subframe spacers.

Sources online and in this forum indicate that the 96-99 Legacy and Outback struts are interchangeable, but starting in 2000 and going to at least 2004 they use a "multi-link" rear suspension which requires spacers when switching from Legacy to Outback struts:

On 2/11/2010 at 1:26 AM, WoodsWagon said:

A 2000 legacy has a different rear suspension design, it's multi-link rather than strut type, so lifting it is not the same as an impreza or earlier legacy. It's not covered in the FAQ. In fact, it's not really covered anywhere. I've seen more threads on lowering 2000-04 outbacks than I have on lifting the same gen legacys.

Seems most of them are still worth enough that people won't beat them offroad. It would be helpful to have a writup on lifing them.

From this discussion:

Also see this discussion:

https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/lifting-my-00-04-legacy.53644/

Now it appears I will need to get this subframe spacer kit.  I see the difference in height between the rear Legacy and Outback struts is roughly 45 mm or 1.75".  A poster in the forum thread above, however, uses 3" subframe spacers to achieve a total lift of 4". 

So I am a little confused as to what parts and what size parts I may need.  Does anyone have experience lifting a 2000-2004 Legacy, especially by using Outback struts?  Are there any surprises I should watch out for on the front axle while I'm at it? 

[dirty_mech]

I read one of those threads more and a suggestion came to mind: Take the spacers off a junkyard 2000-2004 Outback and use those?? 

I haven't studied the grundle of an Outback recently but it wouldn't surprise me if the factory subframe was identical to the Legacy just with added spacers.  It might be a straightforward solution but I hear unbolting the subframe is actually a lot of work.  Wish there was an easy fix.

[1 Lucky Texan]

I had to put the scissor jack above the rear knuckle to push it down just doing like-for-like swap on my Outback.

[dirty_mech]

3 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

I had to put the scissor jack above the rear knuckle to push it down just doing like-for-like swap on my Outback.

So that's just for a like-for-like swap on an Outback?  Well maybe it's not so uncommon then.  I could certainly try that trick if you don't foresee any issues.  It's 1.75" FFS!

Edited May 5, 2021 by dirty_mech
misread

[dirty_mech]

Just trowled the OEM parts on the Subaru parts website, and I can't seem to find the OEM Outback spacers for a 2000.  All the diagrams are identical, no different parts that I can see besides the strut assemblies themselves.  Still a lot of sources indicate that there is a difference with regards to spacing.

[dirty_mech]

Found this video on replacing the subframe of a 2000 Outback.  I couldn't identify any spacers on the subframe when it was being examined or uninstalled.  Add that to the lack of different parts in the official diagrams, and now I'm confused.  Maybe the 2000 Legacy and 2000 Outback subframes actually are identical, and the scissor jack trick is just necessary to install the rear struts?
 

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/80192/how-to-safely-align-lower-strut-bolt-on-2001-outback

[dirty_mech]

Thanks for the help Texan.  That info helped me get the job done besides being worried that I was missing something.  I used the scissor jack like you recommended, although I positioned it at a different location (pictured) and also used a jack from the bottom.  After getting the rear struts in, I tested them by standing on the back bumper and jumping up and down.  They didn't bottom out like I was fearing they would, which gave me a lot of relief.  After that, the front struts went in without any jacks or substantial effort on my part.  The biggest remaining issue was the alignment, especially on the front axle where camber was so excessive that you could see the tilt in the tire.

The real test for me was getting the alignment done.  I was worried that they would come back and tell me they couldn't do it because larger struts were preventing them from making proper adjustments.  However they were able to perform the alignment without issue, apparently.  There's a couple values in my alignment datasheet (attached) which were out of spec, and I might call them tomorrow to ask about that, but everything seems good so far.  Possibly a tiny bit of wobble in the steering wheel around 45ish miles an hour, and it might drag a tiny bit to the right, but it doesn't seem noticeably different from before I changed my tires a month ago and is otherwise a complete success.  I even had time to install the new cat while I was at it yesterday evening, which shouldn't be scraping the ground so much with the extra 2-3 inches I've gained.  It seems to be more than just the height difference between the old and new struts, possibly because Outback struts are stiffer but also because I went with Monroe quick struts which are reportedly stiffer than the OEM style KYBs. 

With this lift, the winter tires, the countless dents and missing trim strips, I think my Subaru might officially be a trashwagon.  Well, I might need a brush guard to make it official, but it definitely is on the way!  I've attached additional photos so you can see the results.  Confirmed: You can straight swap the struts on a 2000 Legacy with Outback struts and no additional parts, and I am guessing that is true for the entire 2000-2004 generation.  I'll let you know if I develop any problems down the road.  If anyone can offer an opinion on the slightly imperfect results of the alignment, I'm all ears. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by dirty_mech

[1 Lucky Texan]

you got it done so, movement forward is always good.

the alignment numbers aren't horrible and they corrected the rear left quite a bit closer to in range, just couldn't quite get there.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by 1 Lucky Texan

[idosubaru]

If they could adjust the rear without replacing those rear bolt and bushings that always seize - have a party!  Or they’ve already been replaced.

I wouldn’t worry about that front caster. Front camber and toe is good. But I’m no alignment expert.

I’d ask about the rear left toe and why that couldn’t be brought in range  

Ideally you talk to the guy that did it and they remember your car. The people checking out or answering phones won’t know, it’s gets lost in the transmission or the guy won’t recall which one yours is of the 37 alignments he did this week. Definitely ask, but depending how big and busy the shop is getting accurate info isn’t always as easy as it seems. 

[dirty_mech]

So it turns out the reason they couldn't get the rear left toe into spec is because they've maxed out the adjustment on the cam bolt.  The tech said I will either need to get an enlarged aftermarket cam bolt or an adjustable lower control arm.  He described this kind of control arm as being adjustable in the same way as a tie rod end, with a section that is threaded.

Does anyone have any familiarity with aftermarket parts like these to fix alignment specs?  I've tried looking a bit but so far no dice.

 

[idosubaru]

I think those control arms are the same part number control arm, bushings, and bolts right and left - which makes it seem a little odd that one side can be aligned and the other can't. 

Are you positive the bushing isn't deteriorating?  Those bushings are commonly problematic, happens all the time. 

I'd probably look into whiteline, you'd want one of these rear adjusters.  I think Eibach may carry stuff too.  

https://whitelineperformance.com/products/kta124-control-arm

 

[dirty_mech]

My Subaru actually got T-boned a few years back on the left side directly on the rear axle by some dumbass turning left without looking.  It wasn't a huge impact but it was enough to shove my car sideways and definitely threw off the alignment.  That could explain why the left side is having issues while the right side is not, although I can't speak to the exact mechanism.  Slight warpage of the frame or subframe, perhaps?

I'm actually pretty sure that I replaced the bushings on that lower control arm last winter when I was trying to eliminate suspension noise, but I will double check.  I might have just replaced one but not the other.  Looks like replacing bushings would be a good bit cheaper than adjustable control arms.  I'll investigate that option further if the bushing option doesn't pan out.  A shame there isnt simply a slightly larger adjustment bolt, it's so damn close.  I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's a bushing once again.

Edited May 18, 2021 by dirty_mech

[idosubaru]

edit

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by idosubaru

[idosubaru]

Could you fabricate it to accept a larger adjustment bolt? 

12 hours ago, dirty_mech said:

My Subaru actually got T-boned a few years back on the left side directly on the rear axle

I'd guess a control arm, link, or strut is bent.  Often hard to measure or tell as the form/shape/curves mask visible deformation and they're hard to measure unless you're lucky and have a nice tram gauge.  But the alignment machine may have measured and pointed in that direction for you?  

[dirty_mech]

On 5/18/2021 at 12:32 PM, idosubaru said:

I'd guess a control arm, link, or strut is bent.  Often hard to measure or tell as the form/shape/curves mask visible deformation and they're hard to measure unless you're lucky and have a nice tram gauge.

Could be!  My problem is too much negative toe, meaning the front of the tire points away from the centerline of the vehicle too much The lower control arm in that picture (the one with the visible adjustment bolt) might be bent in a way that makes it too short to bring the front of the tire towards the centerline.  This could be due to the previous impact.  

I am tempted to remove that control arm and hit it with a sledge hammer or 45lb weight plate while it is sitting on the ground to make it a bit longer.  That could solve my issue.  

I'll measure it before and after to see if it gets any results. 

[idosubaru]

Now you’re talking. A porta- power in the right spot might gain that small amount needed?!