Talk to me about the 2013 oil consumption problem.

[jonathan909]

We drive beaters - nothing less than 20 years old.  Newest vehicle I own is an '08 Nissan Titan, and it's a POS.  I hate new cars.

So the reason I'm asking is that I just met a neighbor who has one of these nightmare oil-burning 2013s.   I gather this really is a thing, complete with the class-action suit.  Owing to circumstances, though, I don't think whatever relief might be available under the suit applies to him.

So I'm asking as a wrench-puller:  How do you fix it?

[GeneralDisorder]

You replace the short block. The reman FB short blocks are like less than $1800 from Subaru. The FB's don't come apart like an EJ and if you try to get into changing rings you get to pull the rod caps and open up a can of worms and own the warranty yourself. The dealership changes the short blocks also. The reman blocks come with a 3 year / 36k warranty from SOA - though they do not technically sell these to individuals except at the parts departments discretion and warranty if you aren't a shop that can "professional installation" on it is a question mark. Depends how much the parts department likes you (directly proportional to how much money you spend with them annually). 

Used replacement engines for the FB25 cars are stupidly over-priced from the junk yards and you don't get anywhere near the warranty you get with the new Subaru blocks that have the updated rings.

GD

[jonathan909]

Now I'm just curious:  What's the difference between these FB blocks and the EJs that makes it such a can of worms?

And what's the actual source of the problem?  Rings?

Edited September 15, 2021 by jonathan909

[jonathan909]

I see... it's a ring thing, and the (relevant) difference between the EJ and FB is that with the latter you can actually get at all the rod bolts through the block, so the rods come out with the pistons (rather than unpinning the pistons from the rods).  This would seem to be a tractable problem for someone who's ever successfully torqued a rod cap in place.

So is there some magic here that I'm missing?

[Numbchux]

In the ever-present chase for fuel mileage, the rings were left too loose, and they burn oil. The replacement engines will get worse fuel mileage. We had many complaints at the dealership where I worked, as the advisors didn't make this clear enough up front.

The lawsuit brought the warranty up to 100k miles, I don't know if there was a time limit on that. Early warranty repair was to replace rings, but then they changed to using brand-new shortblocks, either to reduce labor cost, or problems, or both. Even still, it's no small job, and we saw more than a few comebacks due to oil leaking from the timing cover or cam carriers.

 

Running 5w30 (synthetic, of course) helps.

You can use a used engine from newer model with a few small changes. A friend of mine bought a 2011 Forester with a blown engine, not knowing it was an FB. And he ended up getting an engine from a 2015 or so and swapped it in. Sorry, I don't remember all the details, but it wasn't anything major. There must be some documentation on it.

[GeneralDisorder]

15 hours ago, jonathan909 said:

I see... it's a ring thing, and the (relevant) difference between the EJ and FB is that with the latter you can actually get at all the rod bolts through the block, so the rods come out with the pistons (rather than unpinning the pistons from the rods).  This would seem to be a tractable problem for someone who's ever successfully torqued a rod cap in place.

So is there some magic here that I'm missing?

Should be relatively straightforward but the fear is that there could be bottom end damage due to being run low on engine oil. And the price of the short block with the value addition of the warranty vs. the price of the rings, potentially rod bearings, and the labor generally makes it non-viable. The rod bolts require a special socket. Company 23 makes them. 

GD

[jonathan909]

E14 external Torx?  Unless it's unusually skinny, not all that special - I've got a (Snap-on) set of those things.  I think the excuse for buying them was a Grand Cherokee hatchback gas shock or something similarly stupid.

[GeneralDisorder]

33 minutes ago, jonathan909 said:

E14 external Torx?  Unless it's unusually skinny, not all that special - I've got a (Snap-on) set of those things.  I think the excuse for buying them was a Grand Cherokee hatchback gas shock or something similarly stupid.

Normal sockets don't fit as it's a special thin wall design. If they did fit then I doubt Company 23 would have a market to produce a plain old E14. 

GD

[jonathan909]

Kinda figgered it might be something like that.

[Numbchux]

20 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

but the fear is that there could be bottom end damage due to being run low on engine oil

 

Yep. Most models have a low oil level light, but the early Foresters do not, so it's not uncommon for people to drive them until they don't go anymore.

[Dinky26]

Correct me if I’m wrong here. 
Once those IDIOT LIGHTS come on it’s too late and the damage has been done?

[Numbchux]

2 hours ago, Dinky26 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong here. 
Once those IDIOT LIGHTS come on it’s too late and the damage has been done?

There is an oil pressure light, just like Subaru has used for 30 years. That is triggered at about 6psi. That's fine at idle, but if you have 6psi while driving down the highway, yea, you're about to have a rod come out.

 

All the FB cars except the first couple years of the Forester have an oil level light, as well. This comes on about at the low mark on the dip stick (pretty early, IMHO).

 

The first time my mom called me and said that her oil light came on on the highway in her 12 Impreza, I freaked. But it's the level light, and she adds about 1/2 qt, and moves on.

[Dinky26]

20 minutes ago, Numbchux said:

There is an oil pressure light, just like Subaru has used for 30 years. That is triggered at about 6psi. That's fine at idle, but if you have 6psi while driving down the highway, yea, you're about to have a rod come out.

Thanks for the clarification Numbchux. 
This was ALWAYS my illusion of paranoia, caution, misinformation, other makes failing, people really not knowing what they were talking about ect….

At least Subaru has done it right here.