2010 Legacy Overheating

[Danimal08]

I have a 2010 Legacy 2.5 with 170k miles. I’ve had it for about 3 months and it recently started overheating. But only sometimes and in under different circumstances. The first time it happened I was sitting in a parking lot running the AC. I’d been there for about 20 minutes and the AC started blowing warm and the coolant temp light started flashing. I shut it off for a few minutes and it was fine. I stopped at a drive thru on the way home and ate in the parking lot with the car running and had no issues. A week or two later I was driving home on the highway, 60-70mph, when the AC started blowing warm again and the temp light was flashing. By the time I got pulled over, the light was on and the car was steaming. The reservoir cap had popped off and was spewing coolant. I sat for about 20 minutes and started driving again and it was fine until I got to town. The light started flashing again. I pulled over and waited a few minutes and drove home with no problems. The next morning I topped off the coolant and had no issues for a a few days. It happened a few more times but I’ve always been able to let it cool for a bit and go on. But today it started again and I was only able to drive a few minutes at a time before it started getting hot. I’ve had other vehicles overheat before but I’ve never had it come and go like this. Again, I can drive it for days at a time whether it be highway or stop and go traffic and not have a problem. And then it starts seemingly out of nowhere. Has anyone had similar issues or have any ideas?

[heartless]

sounds like classic head gasket failure to me.

do a search here about it, and you will find it is relatively common on certain engines.

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

are you topping-off the coolant in the radiator or in the overflow bottle?

[Danimal08]

I had to add a little to the radiator but mostly just the reservoir 

[heartless]

8 hours ago, Danimal08 said:

I had to add a little to the radiator but mostly just the reservoir 

to make sure there are no air pockets in the system, get the nose up in the air (jack or ramps) and run it for a bit to full operating temp.. let it cool, while still up, and then check the radiator - top up as needed..

set it back down, make sure the overflow is at the correct level..

run car again, to full operating temp, and check the overflow bottle... I am going to bet you will see bubbles coming up in there, which are exhaust gases getting into the cooling system... classic headgasket failure

 

[Danimal08]

I’m gonna try to get the air out when I get home today. Although I’m expecting to have to replace the head gasket

[idosubaru]

You could have had a leak.  

After all those limping along overheating events you may have a leak or headgasket issues or both.  

You can do this now too - proper approach first overheat event would have been:

1. top off radiator and overflow tank

2. Monitor coolant level daily or every couple days to see if it’s loosing coolant *without overheating*.  That would indicate a leak. 

You want to determine if it’s:

A:  overheating when it gets low on coolant

B:  randomly overheating. 
 

if you just wait for it to overheat you have no idea if it’s due to A or B. Monitor coolant level over time. 
 

It can always be low after running hot due to the coolant put the overflow. That doesn’t tell you anything meaningful. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by idosubaru

[Ferret54]

We HAD a 2011 Outback .... had 165K on it when I bought it for our daughter. Did a lot of work including wheel bearings, front bushings, struts etc. Engine was Head Gaskets and timing components. It DID have slight bubbles in radiator.

 

Skip ahead 18 months and 30K later, while on the interstate and in single lane for over 10 miles due to construction, the top of the radiator blew off where the top hose attaches. She had to drive a few miles before she could pull over. Needless to say, after that, engine was TOAST ..... I never tore down a more overheated engine .... even the plastic/composite intake was melted at the heads. Our experience ....

 

My advice.... headgaskets and new radiator at the least. The boards are FULL of high mileage Subarus with cracked or broke radiators. Only other one I had was a cracked side tank on a 98 Forester at just over 200K . But I HAVE had other Subaru's with More mileage on them than those 2 and no radiator issues. and I have owned 14 Subaru's since 1979.

[Danimal08]

I hadn’t noticed it leaking before. The only time I’ve had to replace coolant was the one time it actually got hot and the reservoir started overflowing. I’ve read several boards with similar issues now so I’m counting on changing the head gaskets. What puzzles me is that I can always tell when it’s about to start overheating because my AC starts blowing warm. I’m not sure how it’s related

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, Danimal08 said:

I hadn’t noticed it leaking before. The only time I’ve had to replace coolant was the one time it actually got hot and the reservoir started overflowing. I’ve read several boards with similar issues now so I’m counting on changing the head gaskets. What puzzles me is that I can always tell when it’s about to start overheating because my AC starts blowing warm. I’m not sure how it’s related

It's common for A/C to quit working when a car is overheating.  I've never even thought about it but I assume it's by design (A/C cuts off to protect engine) or the heat load is too much for the A/C condenser to operate properly.  

Probably head gaskets but i'd still monitor for coolant loss and see if you can determine if it's external or internal. 

[Danimal08]

The plan for now is to do what idosubaru suggested. I’m driving my backup currently because yesterdays episode has me scared to drive it to work. Trying to minimize any damage to the engine. Is the head gasket a tough job? This is my first Subaru and I’ve only had it a few months. I’ve changed heads on my older vehicles but don’t know what I’m getting into here 

[Danimal08]

Okay, so I was top off the coolant today to monitor levels and when I popped the lid on the overflow I noticed there’s a black film and little black flecks coating the inside of the tank. I’d imagine that’s confirmation of the head gasket?

[ThosL]

You could pull out the thermostat;  could even put the heater on full blast, should suck some heat off the engine.  Just don't use crap like Blue Devil or other fixes that don't work.  Do your research.

[idosubaru]

18 hours ago, Danimal08 said:

The plan for now is to do what idosubaru suggested. I’m driving my backup currently because yesterdays episode has me scared to drive it to work. Trying to minimize any damage to the engine. 

Smart.  

18 hours ago, Danimal08 said:

 Is the head gasket a tough job? 

I don't know.  I do almost exclusively Subaru but I have done a couple other manufacturers head jobs.  There's two heads and they're horizontal so they're not easy/veritically mounted right on top like some and there's twice as many as a vehicle with one head.  But there are no special tools required and nothing is tricky like some vehicles have impossible to access bolt/cranks due to cramming those transverse mounted engines against strut towers.  So it depends what you're comparing it too.   

Most people pull the engine, it's tricky to do in the engine compartment but can be done if you unbolt the motor mounts (2 14mm nuts - easy) and jack up each side as you're working on it to tilt it so the head is somewhat "up".  Lift drivers side, work on it, lift passengers side and work on it.  It's certainly nice to not pull the engine for some people. 

Use Subaru gasket, resurface the heads, clean and lubricate and probably torque the head bolts.  Install a Subaru timing belt ($70) and lower cogged idler ($30) from Subaru, check the timing tensioner for oil around the seal (if it's wet replace the tensioner) (or just get a complete timing kit with all new pulleys and tensioner).  New valve covers are smart while it's apart.  Then you're good for another 100k with minimal maintenance.  Then add a bottle of Subaru's coolant conditioner - they "require" it.  Although I don't think GD even uses it when he does a HG job. 

16 hours ago, Danimal08 said:

Okay, so I was top off the coolant today to monitor levels and when I popped the lid on the overflow I noticed there’s a black film and little black flecks coating the inside of the tank. I’d imagine that’s confirmation of the head gasket?

Overflows are old and dirty I don't like to assume to much from them.  A rubber seal on a radiator cap can degrade and get flakey and end up with black particulate matter in the overflow...etc. 

11 hours ago, ThosL said:

You could pull out the thermostat;  could even put the heater on full blast, should suck some heat off the engine.  Just don't use crap like Blue Devil or other fixes that don't work.  Do your research.

That's a horrible suggestion.  These engines usually don't respond well and can still overheat without a thermostat.  Also the coolant flow often gets disturbed and you loose cabin heat anyway when they start overheating because it's not cycling through properly - basically the same thing that makes the thermostat trick not work also makes the cabin heat not work. 

Also I've pulled heads that were driven for a couple months with bad headgaskets like that and they will wear the metal on the head down like water wears down rocks.  You'll have a smooth, valley of warn metal where the head gasket breech is if you drive it long enough like that.  Right by the combustion chamber will be wide and it'll chamfer down to a rounded point.

Avoiding additives and blue devil is a good idea. 

The Subaru Coolant Conditioner works 100% of the time on initial overheats of factory installed gaskets....but this isn't an initial overheat and I didn't want to mention it unless we confirmed an external coolant leak - that's the only condition for which this will work.  If it's leaking internally it's a waste of time, effort, and coolant. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by idosubaru

[forester2002s]

1 hour ago, idosubaru said:

...and probably torque the head bolts.

Unfortunate spelling mistake?

probably = properly ?

[idosubaru]

3 hours ago, forester2002s said:

Unfortunate spelling mistake?

probably = properly ?

Indeed!  

‘Probably’ Hahahhaa. Lol

[ThosL]

I'll defer to the expert.

 

If the head gaskets need to be changed out what is the likely price range on that job for this vehicle?

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, ThosL said:

I'll defer to the expert.

 

If the head gaskets need to be changed out what is the likely price range on that job for this vehicle?

It’s a bad fit for EJs and really any vehicle with significant value which a 2010 Subaru  should be.  

price varies on geographic area,shop, parts used, what’s included. $2,500-$3,500 would be an average.

[ThosL]

On 10/6/2021 at 10:40 PM, idosubaru said:

It’s a bad fit for EJs and really any vehicle with significant value which a 2010 Subaru  should be.  

price varies on geographic area,shop, parts used, what’s included. $2,500-$3,500 would be an average.

Those are scary high prices for many customers.

Statistics are that the great majority of the working population is making a lot under $20/hour.  So how many hours do they need to work to pay in order to save the vehicle? Practically I would be looking at any and all alternatives to maxing out credit cards or blowing much of my savings.  

I'd look for a competent mechanic, explaining my situation.  Is there an affordable option? You have single people, family people, the disabled and many other groups of people needing good transportation.  

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, ThosL said:

Those are scary high prices for many customers.

Statistics are that the great majority of the working population is making a lot under $20/hour.  So how many hours do they need to work to pay in order to save the vehicle? Practically I would be looking at any and all alternatives to maxing out credit cards or blowing much of my savings.  

I'd look for a competent mechanic, explaining my situation.  Is there an affordable option? You have single people, family people, the disabled and many other groups of people needing good transportation. 
 

Yes we all know that. The person that started this thread sounds like he’s doing the job himself - so shops rates don’t matter here. If he has concerns or questions he would ask. 

[heartless]

yeah, shop prices are going to vary dramatically depending on location.

East coast, or major metropolitan area, yeah.. $2500-3500 is probably a good estimate. Rural midwest, it might be a little lower, but probably not by a lot.

head gaskets are a major job.. just to pull the heads is going to take time - ie: labor.. intake has to come off, various things disconnected, moved out of the way..

then clean up of old gaskets, inspection to make sure everything is ok.. head work to make sure it is flat/not warped.. valves inspected, possibly lapped while the head is out if needed..

lots of work for the job means lots of labor and at going shop rates ($80-100/hr around here), it adds up quickly.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

We are currently at $2,750 for the job. Add $400 if you want radiator and hoses along with it. We are cheaper than most of our nearby competition and we include more value-adding parts such as the complete 105k service with the HG job. 

There's a lot that goes into the pricing structure - overhead these days is crazy. I am fortunate to not be renting my property and thus not subject to commercial property rent increases in the last few years. By far the largest expense is payroll and taxes. 

As I frequently have to point out to people - driving is a privilege - not a right. It has to be earned. Either by spending money or spending your time. Doing the job yourself has it's own inherent risks associated with it including the prospect of the vehicle being in a non driveable state for sometimes a week or several weekends or more depending on your skill level and time you have available to perform the task. 

Weather you pay to have the job done or not is a DIRECT reflection on what your time is worth. If you make $13 an hour delivering pizza then your time is worth X. If you make $60 an hour as a commercial electrician then your time is worth Y. If taking a week out of your pay to do this job would cost more than having us do it (or even the same or slightly less if you also take into consideration warranty and turn-around time) then the choice is obvious. 

So you ask yourself - what marketable skill do you have and does that put you in a position to fix it yourself or pay us to do it? Of course there are other considerations such as physical ability to do the work, some technical skills and reading comprehension are required, etc. 

GD

[heartless]

Well said, GD!

for me.. with a job this complicated, I would gladly pay someone like GD to do the job for me and know it was done right.

Do I have the skill set? yeah, maybe... the tools? most likely... the time? most definitely.  but, there are things about this job that I feel are worth paying someone (that is competent) to do it for me.

[ThosL]

I have a couple local mechanics that charge $50-$90 an hour.  I had an ignition coil blow today, was not sure what it was and one of the mechanics ordered a unit that I could have gotten myself and saved some money but that was not an option.

The key for people may be to not get risky vehicles, Subarus are well known for head gasket failures which can easily be a cause for junking a car.  If Subarus are premium performance cars then the answer may be getting lower maintenance vehicles.  Maxing out credit cards, burning through life savings on a repair, or taking desperate measures are painful decisions people should not have to make.

People just don't have the money for major repairs in many cases.  We're not talking about pizza delivery drivers here folks.  We're talking about the vast majority of the population working in the service job economy.  The average weekly income these days is under $1000 a week before taxes.  So with rent, healthcare, food, and all the other costs of living, a car that suddenly costs thousands of dollars more, can create dire circumstances for people.  

There usually is an affordable solution, checking around for a Saturday mechanic who does good work, looking for a mechanically sound less expensive vehicle; maybe using public transportation or  other non car options for a while, carpooling.  When I have had vehicle breakdowns I've walked to work, no big deal for me, but would have been for others.

Edited October 15, 2021 by ThosL

[heartless]

14 hours ago, ThosL said:

The average weekly income these days is under $1000 a week before taxes.

uh, yeah.. WELL under that figure.. 
my last job, I brought home about 600 every 2 weeks.