Has anyone had success with Subaru on engine failures at 100K+ miles?

[ThosL]

https://www.smart-service.com/blog/subaru-warranty/subaru-head-gasket-will-subaru-pay-for-repair/

 

This seems to be an epidemic with many of the Subarus from the late 90s into the 2000s, head gasket failure as well as other common problems that lead to that such as the low quality radiators that make head gasket failure more common.  Why haven't class action lawsuits had more success since these problems are so well known?

[laegion]

2 hours ago, ThosL said:

https://www.smart-service.com/blog/subaru-warranty/subaru-head-gasket-will-subaru-pay-for-repair/

 

This seems to be an epidemic with many of the Subarus from the late 90s into the 2000s, head gasket failure as well as other common problems that lead to that such as the low quality radiators that make head gasket failure more common.  Why haven't class action lawsuits had more success since these problems are so well known?

Because other than faulty head gasket design on a few motors (ej25d and ej251) they don't have a higher failure rate than other manufacturers.

[1 Lucky Texan]

the problem is getting long in the tooth now. If there ever was a CALS, I don't remember it.

I bet you can pick almost any car maker though, and search google with its name plus the phrase 'class action law suit' and find several. My Brother-in-law's Hybrid Camry suffered a seized engine DURING an excess oil use test! Personally, I think it's sad that there are basic issues like head gaskets, wheel bearings, piston ring lands and other areas that should have decades of good engineering experience behind them - that still suffer early failures. Other makes have stuff like this come-up too. Yes, the 2016 CAFE standards are very tough, but some of these issues aren't related to that.

 

[idosubaru]

19 hours ago, ThosL said:

https://www.smart-service.com/blog/subaru-warranty/subaru-head-gasket-will-subaru-pay-for-repair/

 

This seems to be an epidemic with many of the Subarus from the late 90s into the 2000s, head gasket failure as well as other common problems that lead to that such as the low quality radiators that make head gasket failure more common.  Why haven't class action lawsuits had more success since these problems are so well known?

Goodness this issue was discussed to death many years ago.

What part of “it’s covered under manufacturers warranty, recalls and extended warranty” should they sue over?

warranty, recalls, and manufacturers extended warranties, happen for multiple reasons including to mitigate litigation.

Edited October 16, 2021 by idosubaru

[heartless]

honestly.. sounds like someone just likes to stir the pot..

If it was an ongoing issue with new cars, then maybe i could see the idea of a CAS - but the vehicles in question are OLD! Some over 20 yrs old.  My 2002 Forester, with nearly 270K miles, will be 20 yrs old next year - if the headgasket were to fail at this point, do I really have a case for a lawsuit? Short answer, No, i do not, for multiple reasons, not the least of which is age.

And as others have said.. in general, not really any worse with Subaru than with other manufacturers... At least my Subaru is not going to explode if I get rear-ended... LOL

[ThosL]

On 10/16/2021 at 3:46 PM, idosubaru said:

Goodness this issue was discussed to death many years ago.

What part of “it’s covered under manufacturers warranty, recalls and extended warranty” should they sue over?

warranty, recalls, and manufacturers extended warranties, happen for multiple reasons including to mitigate litigation.

It just strikes me as a serious issue that should have been addressed instead of dragging on for years.  Often the only motivation for companies to address the problem is an economic fear of downside losses that their shareholders and future customers will hold them accountable for.  

[1 Lucky Texan]

Oh, I strongly suspect it did and still is affecting Subaru's reputation. LG has a suit against them for refrigerator compressors, yet Folks are buying them left and right and they populate Consumer Reports list-tops in ratings.

In Texas, therre is a very popular ice cream company that KILLED someone with bacteria and lied about it. Folks could not WAIT for the product to return to the shelves......

forgive and forget I suppose.

[heartless]

12 hours ago, ThosL said:

It just strikes me as a serious issue that should have been addressed instead of dragging on for years. 

it WAS addressed... by extending warranties for the vehicles affected AND changing the gasket design.
the sheer volume of affected cars out there coupled with the fact that the failures did not typically happen until somewhere between 75 & 100k is why it appears to have dragged on for years.  That, and many people did not have a problem, or ignored the early warning signs and did not take advantage of replacement warranties...

Let it go.. this is not something to carry on about anymore. Geez...   these vehicles are getting seriously long in the tooth now..

[idosubaru]

On 10/18/2021 at 4:58 PM, ThosL said:

It just strikes me as a serious issue that should have been addressed

Yes agreed. This was discussed *decades* ago. You’re way too late. Now you should be looking into technology gadgets and lack of repair/support, 0W oil, low friction oil control rings plaguing most manufacturers the last few years. 
 

New car consumers are culpable too. They want new styles, reliable, aesthetic high tech, gas mileage, environmental friendly , performance improvements every year and it better be cheap compared to the same new styling and tech by another manufacturer. New car consumers pay for that - not reliability.  They can talk about it but they’re not serious about it beyond low grade consumer reports rankings. Manufacturers have to support new tech, EPA, electric cars, gas mileage and all these additional devices that weren’t an issue before - and they can’t expect to charge commensurate increases in prices. They have to research, design, make, support all these extras systems for no more money. The days of new car consumers being happy with paying a fair cost for a decent new are gone. The market has entirely changed over that decades and half (or more) of it is driven by new car consumers buying habits and expectations. 
 

Fortunately for manufacturers consumers also became less versed in cars and have less ability and time to do their own work, diagnosis, or planning. New car Dealership profit has drastically shifted from new car sales to service abs used cars. They don’t make money on new cars like they used to in the 80s and 90s.  A new car is simply access to your service and repair dollars now, or your relatively nee trade in they can sell certified  

You can expect tech, styling, performance, advertising, and feel to get more focus and funding than mechanical and reliability.  It’s not sexy and doesn’t sell no matter how much new car people “say” it does - new car buyers don’t pay for it at scale. Companies know this.

Do companies loose if reputation is hit - yes.   Do they loose a lot more if they don’t cater to new car buyers buying habits?  Absolutely.

[heartless]

i know i am probably in the minority, but i DON'T want all that fancy tech (more crap to go wrong) and I don't want 4 dr pickups.... styling, eh.. as long as it isn't too ugly, i don't really care - and tbh, a lot of the newer cars are ugly to me..

what i DO want is reliability and decent fuel mileage. Interior comfort is also a factor for me.. I am short (5'4") so having controls within easy reach is kind of important. Hands free phone is about all i want in the "tech" department, lol.  I don't want lane assist, or rear cameras... but then again.. I am from an era where learning to drive right was a thing - paying attention to the road and the other drivers around you was/is important.

[1 Lucky Texan]

CAFE rules are forcing some changes in aerodynamics (my guess), and that seems to mean less visibility. My wife's '21 CR-V would be pretty tricky in reverse without the back-up camera.

But I agree in general, it may be the electronics that 'totals' a car in the future, sending more to an early grave in the wrecking yard.

[ThosL]

Sorry that I brought up an old issue I had not heard how the company addressed the issue apparently as well as they could.  There just aren't that many branded vehicles that keep running at 200-300K miles.  

[heartless]

9 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

CAFE rules are forcing some changes in aerodynamics (my guess), and that seems to mean less visibility. My wife's '21 CR-V would be pretty tricky in reverse without the back-up camera.

But I agree in general, it may be the electronics that 'totals' a car in the future, sending more to an early grave in the wrecking yard.

uh... they can improve aerodynamics while still maintaining visibility... it is more about "styling", and the option to have a back up camera now that is driving that nonsense.

and backing up with nothing but side mirrors is not that difficult, really.. yes, it DOES require one to be sure about what is behind them, but it can be done. heck, i do it all the time and I dont have a visibility problem.. old habits die hard, LOL (semis dont have backup cameras or center rear view mirrors.. you learn quickly to back up without them. same difference towing a boat or a camper trailer.. )

[jannhall]

I have never reached a 100k mileage on my car. I do replace mine every four years. I feel like a car with a higher mileage requires high maintenance. 

[ThosL]

4 hours ago, jannhall said:

I have never reached a 100k mileage on my car. I do replace mine every four years. I feel like a car with a higher mileage requires high maintenance. 

I hope you have been getting top dollar for your used car when you go to sell. How do you sell it? Do you trade it into for a new car at the dealer? The car donation options do not get the charities much in market value from what I have heard.

[heartless]

6 hours ago, jannhall said:

I have never reached a 100k mileage on my car. I do replace mine every four years. I feel like a car with a higher mileage requires high maintenance. 

and it is your trade ins that the rest of us are buying.. LOL

Seriously tho... over a 100K used to be a death sentence years ago.. but this has not been the case for a very long time, yet the mindset remains...

I bought my first Subaru with 150K on it.. the lowest mileage one ever I think was 114K... the 2002 Forester had 214K when we purchased - the highest mileage purchased..
I have NO problem buying a Subaru with over 100K on it.. barely broken in is my motto
After making sure all maintenance is up to date, I get a good car that will most likely get at least another 100K, if not more.

Edited October 21, 2021 by heartless

[Turbone]

It seems like lately, the dealerships dont want your trade-ins. If you do want to trade it in, they give you well below Blue Book value. When my wife bought a new Subaru the end of last year we chose to do a private sale rather than trade in. We got about $3k for a 05 OB with around 250k on it, never would have gotten that much from the dealership

[heartless]

1 hour ago, Turbone said:

It seems like lately, the dealerships dont want your trade-ins. If you do want to trade it in, they give you well below Blue Book value. When my wife bought a new Subaru the end of last year we chose to do a private sale rather than trade in. We got about $3k for a 05 OB with around 250k on it, never would have gotten that much from the dealership

that has pretty much always been true tho.. the wont give you squat for your trade in, but they can make a bundle off of it later. I have NEVER been offered blue book value for a trade in, and dont know anyone that has been... unless it was a relatively rare & desirable model..

Most people will take what is offered because they do not want to hassle with advertising and dealing with people and their expectations of a used car

a lot depends on the local market, too, as to how much you will get for a given model..

around here, fords & chevys are a dime a dozen, Subarus, not so much, so yeah.. they can command a slightly higher price

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by heartless

[Stelcom66]

The last time I bought something under 100k was my former 2002 Forester in 2011, with about 98k. Sure there's maintenance to be expected at 100k and above, but the last time I had a car payment was in 2009. 

Back in 1975 it was a huge deal watching my '67 Chevy Caprice hit 100k miles. Back then it wasn't all that common. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Stelcom66

[Turbone]

1 hour ago, heartless said:

that has pretty much always been true tho.. the wont give you squat for your trade in, but they can make a bundle off of it later. I have NEVER been offered blue book value for a trade in, and dont know anyone that has been... unless it was a relatively rare & desirable model..

Most people will take what is offered because they do not want to hassle with advertising and dealing with people and their expectations of a used car

a lot depends on the local market, too, as to how much you will get for a given model..

around here, fords & chevys are a dime a dozen, Subarus, not so much, so yeah.. they can command a slightly higher price

 

Way back in 99-00 I traded in a 2nd gen wagon with less than 200k on it at a local dealer. I had already bought a few cars from them and they gave me $2500 for the trade in! I bought a 92 Mazda 2600i 4x4 used with just over 100k on it

[1 Lucky Texan]

The way the market is, I'm sure they want trade-ins. But, their 'model' is still, make money on the used car lot.

[heartless]

13 hours ago, Stelcom66 said:

 the last time I had a car payment was in 2009.

LOL, the last time I had a car payment was in 1991.
has been used cars, paid in cash, ever since. After divorce, i swore i would never do it again.. and I havent..  (made payments on a car, or gotten remarried, LOL)

[GeneralDisorder]

5 hours ago, heartless said:

LOL, the last time I had a car payment was in 1991.
has been used cars, paid in cash, ever since. After divorce, i swore i would never do it again.. and I havent..  (made payments on a car, or gotten remarried, LOL)

Exactly. If I can't buy it outright I don't buy it. Same philosophy with my business. Only debt I have is my commercial property and I'm paying that down as rapidly as possible.

And to heck with all the new stuff - anything made after 2004 (in terms of Subaru) is dead to me. 

Just watched a video of some guy that bought a Tesla and saved about $13k in fuel costs over the 75k miles he's had it..... no mention of the cost to purchase said Tesla, or the environmental cost of manufacturing said Tesla. 

Everyone wants to Recycle and forgets entirely about the REDUCE and REUSE that is much more important. We can't just keep making things and replacing them every year or two. What happened to durable goods you could hand down to the next generation? 

GD

[heartless]

7 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

What happened to durable goods you could hand down to the next generation? 

This!! ^^^^^

when i met my partner (over 20 yrs ago now) he had a 1970s, harvest gold refrigerator.. was a good 10 yrs after we met that it finally gave up the ghost, say about 2010-ish. After doing some researching, we bought an Amana to replace it.. supposed to be a good product, had great reviews.. had the freezer on the bottom like I wanted.... We just had to replace that one this year because it failed... barely over 10 yrs... while the previous one lasted 40-ish years.. HUGE difference. Makes me wonder how long the new one will last - 6yrs? 8?

as for the Subarus.. his is a 2006 LL Bean Outback (H6) that he bought in 2014 - been a decent enough car.

we just picked up a 2004 Forester - 185K to replace the 2002 with 267K and failing undercarriage.. remains to be seen how long it will last.. but at least we have a parts car on hand with a good motor, LOL  So far, it seems like a good purchase... runs and drives very nicely.. handles well, clutch is good.. shifts nice and crisp, even has decent tires on it. Been so long since i drove a stick, i had forgotten how much fun they could be, LOL

As for the Tesla - not only is there the ridiculous manufacturing costs, but what about the electricity used to charge it? how many tons of coal or natural gas get burned to make the electricity?? Sure, he saved in gasoline costs.. but what are the TRUE costs of owning that car? Contrary to popular belief, they are not as "environmentally friendly" as they are made out to be... none of the electric cars are.

[1 Lucky Texan]

They have been, and likely still are in many places, heavily subsidized by taxpayer dollars. G'mint picking winners in the market place.

1/2 the total electric cars sold go to California. State an local subsidies and generally battery-friendly climate.

I don't consider myself anti-electric anything. I have a lot of battery powered tools and batt lawnmower. But let the market decide.