EA81T Distributor NO Spark when installed in case, works when grounded outside of case

[NC83TurboGL]

I am trying to resurect a 1983 Turbo Wagon that was junked 25 years ago due to a bum distributor. The previous owner had tried to rig a non Turbo Hitachi distributor to work with no luck. I bought a reman Beck Arnley correct Turbo Hitachi to try to get the ignition system in order. After much testing I realized the Ignitor in the reman dist was no good. I swapped the used Ignitor from the original Turbo dist.

Now I have spark when the Distributor is grounded out of the case or inserted partially into the case. However when I insert the Distributor all the way and the drive gear is meshed I lose spark.

I thought ok I will try to replicate whatever grounding issue is happening when the drive gear meshes on the crank by clamping a ground onto the Dist Drive gear but when I do this I still get good spark.

I have cleaned all grounds.

Any insight or advice short of trying to round up another EA81T Distributor or Ignitor Module???

Any help greatly appreciated

[Step-a-toe]

this must be doing your head in. Your reman dizzy came from Rock I suppose, no warranty or outside return warranty period ? That module I believe, was continued on for the 85 and 86 EA82T and someone out there had one for sale when I asked - wanting US$150. An Aussie also said he had one or two but never came up with the goods. All the reason more that I have ventured to distributor less EDIS by Ford and the Megajolt E MK2 method - an adventure I am embarking on now .

It is like when you earth out body of dist to vehicle is like you are shorting something without blowing it 

[Step-a-toe]

OK, when you finally push it home, I wonder if the alignment of the two bits changes. If out of block, can you jiggle the shaft up and down to get any play? And if so, does this play change spark to no spark? I wonder if the heatsinking style brass spacers under the module are the same between old and new distributor. Do you still have old one ?

[Step-a-toe]

maybe a spacer washer under the brass heatsink spacers might resolve issue once ftited in ?

[NC83TurboGL]

53 minutes ago, Step-a-toe said:

this must be doing your head in. Your reman dizzy came from Rock I suppose, no warranty or outside return warranty period ? That module I believe, was continued on for the 85 and 86 EA82T and someone out there had one for sale when I asked - wanting US$150. An Aussie also said he had one or two but never came up with the goods. All the reason more that I have ventured to distributor less EDIS by Ford and the Megajolt E MK2 method - an adventure I am embarking on now .

It is like when you earth out body of dist to vehicle is like you are shorting something without blowing it 

Step-a-toe Thanks for your replies. Yes this definitely has me scratching my head. If I ground wire the distributor outside the case it always gives good spark no matter how much I try to move the shaft vertically or horizontally. Also there is No significant play in the shaft in any direction. The distributor was purchased off Ebay a while ago after much searching for one under $300 so no ability to return/exchange.

I feel like I should by some means be able to replicate the no spark condition with the dizzy outside the case and therefore trace what likely is a very odd grounding problem but thus far no luck.

It seems to be shaft related somehow as I can also get spark as long as the drive gear has not meshed.

Does anyone know if the shaft is supposed to be insulated from ground completely? I see no mention of any insulating washers or bushings, between the shaft the gear and the body in either my 83-84 factory shop manual or factory parts book.

[NC83TurboGL]

1 hour ago, Step-a-toe said:

maybe a spacer washer under the brass heatsink spacers might resolve issue once ftited in ?

Also the brass heatsink spacers look identical between old dist and reman, however the previous owner messed one up in his attempt to build a hybrid dist combining bits of a non turbo EA81 with the wrecked original dizzy 

[NC83TurboGL]

2 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

maybe a spacer washer under the brass heatsink spacers might resolve issue once ftited in ?

Also the brass heatsink spacers look identical between old dist and reman, however the previous owner messed one up in his attempt to build a hybrid dist combining bits of a non turbo EA81 with the wrecked original dizzy 

[Step-a-toe]

I started to play with installing a two wire module in place of the 4 pin. Not meant to physically interchange mount wise for starters.

When you look at wiring diagram , no earth seems to come into play on EA82

 

 

[Step-a-toe]

I hit something there. The whole thing, knock control module and ign module are all powered and earthed up via the coil from memory. I even forgot to hook up the knock module and drove around for months on 12 psi no problems, so the L can run and drive without box,

[Step-a-toe]

I once hooked up the EA82T series 1 dizzy along with knock sensor and control box to run on NA. It ran but lacked any real will to boogie. The turbo advance must really be pegged versus NA, so I can imagine an NA EA81 dizzy curve in anEA81 turbo would be knocking its little self out with too much advance.

[Step-a-toe]

the insulating issue - using my experience with this same system in EA82T , would say, not a thing.

many years ago people were grabbing EA82 dizzies, chopping the bearing end off the shaft below the drive cog, swapping EA81 drive cog, knock an ear off and installing in EA81. You could likely do same to a series one EA82T distributor?

[Step-a-toe]

does this each and every time you push dizzy home, works out of body every time ?

[Crazyeights]

I have had the distributor drive gear strip on the crank causing the distributor to stop rotating when you stuff it in all the way. Pull the cap and crank it over. Does it turn?

[Step-a-toe]

this happened to Silverbullet on ausubaru - on a freshly built twin carb twin port EA81. It drove him to successfully convert to EDIS and MJ.

good suggestion to check the basics

[NC83TurboGL]

8 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

does this each and every time you push dizzy home, works out of body every time ?

Yes, it does the same thing every time. Generates spark when in the bore but gear not meshed, NO spark once meshed. If completely removed from bore isolated from ground NO spark, if any part of housing and or shaft is grounded with the dizzy out of the case it always Produces spark no matter how I move the shaft.

[NC83TurboGL]

5 hours ago, Crazyeights said:

I have had the distributor drive gear strip on the crank causing the distributor to stop rotating when you stuff it in all the way. Pull the cap and crank it over. Does it turn?

The gear on the replacement dizzy is fine it meshes with crank and rotates correctly when pushed home in bore, but then Spark disappears. However to my knowledge what initially caused this 83 Turbo to get junked was the original distributor seized up and broke the drive gear off.

[Crazyeights]

I was not talking about the gear on the distributor. Check the distributor drive gear on the crankshaft as it may be damaged. You can get to it by removing the oil pump. Again, does the distributor turn when you crank over the engine?

Edited December 8, 2021 by Crazyeights

[NC83TurboGL]

2 hours ago, Crazyeights said:

I was not talking about the gear on the distributor. Check the distributor drive gear on the crankshaft as it may be damaged. You can get to it by removing the oil pump. Again, does the distributor turn when you crank over the engine?

Yes, the drive gear on the crank is fine the distributor turns properly with the engine when fully inserted. Fairly certain this is purely electrical not mechanical. Some crazy grounding problem I believe but I can't isolate what is changing.

[Step-a-toe]

what if you fit it in fully at a point where what ever adjustment you have to swivel dizzy in place, so not clamped down, but with the trigger components able to do a pass and normally give you one spark? Years back a mechanic mate was trying to get an old four pot Ford Cortina started. The only thing that I changed to get it running was to change his coil from hanging by all its wires and mount it in its coil bracket with that body grabbing stopper of the bracket digging into its oil filled body. Can't explain why it needed grounding.

Here, I don't understand why with dizzy out, spin by hand and no earth between dist body and ground that you get no spark. I bet you have tried wriggling the old wires once pushed home?

I hope you are young enough to shelve it for another 25years while we nut it out

[Step-a-toe]

I can only think that why you need earth to get spark when spin rotor while out is that thing that happens between the magnet trigger n gear ...

[Step-a-toe]

do you have circuit diagram at all ?

[NC83TurboGL]

20 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

what if you fit it in fully at a point where what ever adjustment you have to swivel dizzy in place, so not clamped down, but with the trigger components able to do a pass and normally give you one spark? Years back a mechanic mate was trying to get an old four pot Ford Cortina started. The only thing that I changed to get it running was to change his coil from hanging by all its wires and mount it in its coil bracket with that body grabbing stopper of the bracket digging into its oil filled body. Can't explain why it needed grounding.

Here, I don't understand why with dizzy out, spin by hand and no earth between dist body and ground that you get no spark. I bet you have tried wriggling the old wires once pushed home?

I hope you are young enough to shelve it for another 25years while we nut it out

Just to make sure I cleaned the coil bracket and it's mounting points and installed the coil in it's bracket bolted to the body. Still no change.

[NC83TurboGL]

20 hours ago, Step-a-toe said:

I can only think that why you need earth to get spark when spin rotor while out is that thing that happens between the magnet trigger n gear ...

I started to wonder whether instead of a grounding issue perhaps it is a magnetic issue. I was think somehow the gear or the crankshaft has developed a magnetic charge. But I don't the gear on the crank is ferrous metal, I think it is brass. Right now I am completely redoing the B/W + and Yellow - lead wires from the coil to the distributor. I don't think it will fix the problem but the insulation on each had a few worn through spots so it needs to be done anyway.

[Step-a-toe]

i have a few cranks within reach to check with a magnet - reckon not brass, but softer than dist drive gear. Keep up the idea of magnetic issue, I wonder , can you see any change in position of magnet and stator ipositions when you push body home in block? If you have those old heatsink spacers and made up slightly shorter ones, or add a washer to increase module height? I understand that there is a relationship to the ring part of the module to the other bits. Not sure what issues a cracked magnet produces but i do recall someone resolving with fit a one piece magnet after finding two halves in the Hitachi

 

[NC83TurboGL]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:12 PM, Step-a-toe said:

I can only think that why you need earth to get spark when spin rotor while out is that thing that happens between the magnet trigger n gear ...

I started to wonder whether instead of a grounding issue perhaps it is a magnetic issue. I was think somehow the gear or the crankshaft has developed a magnetic charge. But I don't the gear on the crank is ferrous metal, I think it is brass. Right now I am completely redoing the B/W + and Yellow - lead wires from the coil to the distributor. I don't think it will fix the problem but the insulation on each had a few worn through spots so it needs to be done anyway.