Inner tie rod end replacement

[ThosL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NteheE_cO4

 

This is a fairly lucid video on changing the inner tied rod end, but there were a number of aspects of the job that scare me that make the job beyond my tool and aptitude level.

 

What is the book time on doing this job for professionals?  I went to a mechanic today after getting the tie rod end tool at Auto Zone who has done some excellent work for me in the past but he is too busy, doesn't charge enough. I'll try to check in with another mechanic on the job.

[Liftedlego96]

Dont be scared! Dive rite in. Its probably not as hard as you think. Im not sure how long it takes a machanic but me myself in the garage taking my time mabey 2 hours. The trickier part is the alignment. Not hard just abit tricky if its your first go at it. 

[idosubaru]

3 hours ago, ThosL said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NteheE_cO4

 

This is a fairly lucid video on changing the inner tied rod end, but there were a number of aspects of the job that scare me that make the job beyond my tool and aptitude level.

 

What is the book time on doing this job for professionals?  I went to a mechanic today after getting the tie rod end tool at Auto Zone who has done some excellent work for me in the past but he is too busy, doesn't charge enough. I'll try to check in with another mechanic on the job.

1 hour labor, 1 hour alignment. 

It's really easy but the press fit end getting stuck and lock nut and removing it without a special tool (or buying/renting the tool) can be troubling if you're not well experienced with tight fasteners.  I can't see yours but that lock nut and the end joint press fit - can be crusty rusty in the northeast and cause a bit of a wrestling match without good tools and torch. 

I'd inspect the rack boot really well first or have a new steering rack boot on hand just in case - removing a quarter century old boot might render it unusable to reinstall. 

That's the most dangerous part on the entire vehicle, I'd use Subaru only for tie rods.  I would quite literally install a used Subaru OEM before an aftermarket.  If you get a Subaru one too it's probably easier to ensure alignment is the same by counting turns...assuming the parts are the same/equivalents. 

I've replaced subaru inner tie rods without removing the outer tie rod. 

Loosen the lock nut, turn the inner tie rod out so it comes out of the outer tie rod (thereby skipping the need to remove it).  Remove boot.  Use inner tie rod tool to swap tie rods.  Literally don't have to remover any bolts or nuts - just the boot and tie rod itself. Count the number of turns of the tie rod and install the new one to the same depth. 

 

[ThosL]

I have the part; will check with Frank at the shop, who is the manager to see how much he'd charge for the job.  I had the alignment done, free re alignment within 60 days; they flagged that part.

[lmdew]

1+ 

Loosen the lock nut, turn the inner tie rod out so it comes out of the outer tie rod (thereby skipping the need to remove it).  Remove boot.  Use inner tie rod tool to swap tie rods.  Literally don't have to remover any bolts or nuts - just the boot and tie rod itself. Count the number of turns of the tie rod and install the new one to the same depth. 

I center punch the nut and outer tie rod.  Loosen the nut and then do as above.  Once it's out, before I move the nut I take a bit of safety wire and measure from the nut to the end of the tie rod, bend it 90 degrees over the end of the tie rod.  Now you have a tool to put the nut on the new tie rod where it needs to be.  

Once it's all back together and you have driven it a bit do a quick alignment check.  Take some mason's line and tie it to the rear sway bar bolt.  Wrap the line around the outside of all 4 tires about 6" off the ground - as high as possible without hitting the body.  Tie the line off tight on the opposite side of the sway bar.  

With the toe set you should have about a 1/8" gap at the rear of the front tires.  Now take it and get a 4 wheel alignment!  I've gotten very close with the string.

[ThosL]

I went to the mechanic who had the tools today; a lift in a heated facility, a vice, cut off tool etc. which I don't have.

A picture of the separated inner tie rod end:  

[ThosL]

The tire alignment facility could not get the bolt to turn to accurately adjust alignment.   The nice black mechanic was able to do the bare basics; but the front alignment was so far off when he was done that the car was really not drivable.  I went back and when a bay opened up after an hour or two wait he was able to get it closer so the car could be driven.  I'm looking forward to getting the alignment done tomorrow.   I paid $150 for the job.

 

[lmdew]

Threads look bad.  How's the outer Link?

[ThosL]

Nut would not turn, so the alignment facility tagged it as needing replacement; other threads on unit were probably further damaged when mechanic put it in vice to separate inner from outer which he had trouble doing.  He put in the Moog unit I got.

Mechanic did not know how to approximate alignment, vehicle was not really drivable when I left the shop and had to come back.

Edited December 9, 2021 by ThosL

[idosubaru]

3 hours ago, ThosL said:

Nut would not turn, so the alignment facility tagged it as needing replacement; other threads on unit were probably further damaged when mechanic put it in vice to separate inner from outer which he had trouble doing.  He put in the Moog unit I got.

Mechanic did not know how to approximate alignment, vehicle was not really drivable when I left the shop and had to come back.

Glad they got it done, too bad on alignment but at least that's a little more straight forward and should go smoothly minus the time, schedule, waiting, etc. 

Torch - that nut comes off in 15 seconds. 

It wasn't a Subaru part so couldn't retain alignment anyway, that was your choice.  Aftermarket dimensions can vary and can't be expected to retain alignment.  Imdew and myself both described how it's done before the car went to the shop.  Take them a Subaru part and explain to them what we told you or just read/show them the very easy/normal/typical directions we wrote.  They'd be glad to learn a new skill.  We try to help....

On 12/7/2021 at 9:46 PM, idosubaru said:

 If you get a Subaru one too it's probably easier to ensure alignment is the same

If the shop doesn't know how to retain alignment on a tie rod swap then you may want to avoid them for future suspension work (and more). 

If they don't have a torch and can't retain alignment they sound very limited for a northeast subaru shop. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by idosubaru

[ThosL]

I'll ask them why they don't use torches; Town Fair tire, generally good.  

Is the Moog not a good brand for the front end parts?

[Numbchux]

Moog is just another sticker on Federal Mogul parts. Suspension companies buy and sell from different suppliers. Some are better, some are not. But there's no consistency.

[ThosL]

Before and after on alignment:  

Last time:  https://i.imgur.com/UH27Cgk.jpg

Today, different shop:  https://i.imgur.com/WJkLK8y.jpg

[Lightning Racer]

14 hours ago, ThosL said:

Is the Moog not a good brand for the front end parts?

It's bad from my limited experience of one Moog part (one for one bad is 100% bad for me). I put a Moog front lower control arm into my dad's 2005 Outback, and immediately noticed that the camber was way off with the camber bolt in the same position. It couldn't be corrected to even close with the stock camber bolt. The lateral dimension of the part must have been way off. Here's a mechanic's long term experience with Moog parts:

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Lightning Racer

[ThosL]

Rock Auto has a very efficient search algorithm.  

Only Moog, Mevotech and AC Delco for part providers.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,2002,forester,2.5l+h4,1378739,steering,tie+rod+end,7428

You are going to have a few lemons with every car parts provider.   If you get them from Subaru, you will probably pay 2-3 times as much.

[Numbchux]

48 minutes ago, ThosL said:

Rock Auto has a very efficient search algorithm.  

Only Moog, Mevotech and AC Delco for part providers.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,2002,forester,2.5l+h4,1378739,steering,tie+rod+end,7428

You are going to have a few lemons with every car parts provider.   If you get them from Subaru, you will probably pay 2-3 times as much.

That Moog one is $22+shipping

OEM is $35+shipping https://www.subarupartsdeal.com/parts/subaru-tie-rod-complete-gear-box~34140fc000.html

 

10 times the quality, for less than twice the price.

[Lightning Racer]

12 hours ago, ThosL said:

Rock Auto has a very efficient search algorithm.  

Only Moog, Mevotech and AC Delco for part providers.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,2002,forester,2.5l+h4,1378739,steering,tie+rod+end,7428

You are going to have a few lemons with every car parts provider.   If you get them from Subaru, you will probably pay 2-3 times as much.

2-3 times as much would have been worth it for me, especially seeing that video later and realizing that it's a common thing with Moog parts. Spent more than that messing around, getting it aligned twice with a weaker camber modifying camber bolt (wouldn't have needed an alignment at all with a good part). I should have just taken it off and thrown it in the bin and gotten the Subaru part. In fact, I might still do that at some point next time I visit my folks, just to do it right.

[ThosL]

If you want it perfect, you're going to have to replace all the "substandard" parts which will keep you busy for a long, long time.  Ball joints, make sure they are all OE and in good shape for the duration; all tie rod ends etc..  Not worth my trouble and if I had known that the nut could have been turned with a torch, would have done it myself and saved all the pain and aggravation.

[asternay]

On 12/8/2021 at 1:42 AM, Liftedlego96 said:

Dont be scared! Dive rite in. Its probably not as hard as you think. Im not sure how long it takes a machanic but me myself in the garage taking my time mabey 2 hours. The trickier part is the alignment. Not hard just abit tricky if its your first go at it. 







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Thanks for the information!

Edited June 7 by asternay