dealer head gasket longevity?

[bork]

My kid is looking for a used subie & I keep asking the seller if any maintenance records? Hoping to find head gaskets already changed out at a dealer. Am I thinking right? Would a change of head gasket at a dealer be a long term fix? How long?

[lmdew]

Depends on the quality of the job!

[bork]

I saved this to my pc file. I don't know who quoted it? But do most of you agree with the statement below? 05-09 would only leak oil externally? So I might be ok buying a 05-09 with 250k miles on it and not worry about coolant getting in oil and ruining engine? Especially if no record of HG change.

Quoted by unknown

"the whole thread and what everyone has said is pretty bunk. we are talking the 05-09 here, and they leak oil, not coolant, this is WIDELY known. While we are at it, and an educational, here we go.
89-94 EJ22 really had no head gasket issue, the early EJ22 was the BEST engine Subaru ever made, this era included the 91-94EJ22T, the BEST OF THE BEST Subaru right there in the "T" version
95-99 EJ22 not really issue
92-97 EG33, not an issue until after 300k, about the 2nd best engine subaru ever made
3.0, they eventually showed some issue of headgasket, but a good engine all the same
EJ25 to 99 DOHC leaked exhaust gases, into the coolant chamber via a bad design block/head/headgasket-the E25D (dohc) is about the WORST Engine Subaru made, albeit maybe the Justy engine and the 360 engine……
00-04 EJ25 sohc leaked coolant out the block and would run low and overheat if not kept an eye on and run low
05-09 leaked oil, out the bottom. keep oil in them, you are mostly good run oil low, not good
10+ I am not really sure I don't like the new ones and don't usually deal with them at least not yet.
85-94 EA82- it sucked, it had 2 timing belts, and the headgaskets eventually gave out after 100k-not a good engine at all for MANY reasons, including having 2 t belts, and bad gaskets, and low power..
81-87 EA81, not much of a head gasket issue, these are about the third best engine Subaru EVER made"

[idosubaru]

7 hours ago, bork said:

I saved this to my pc file. I don't know who quoted it? But do most of you agree with the statement below? 05-09 would only leak oil externally? So I might be ok buying a 05-09 with 250k miles on it and not worry about coolant getting in oil and ruining engine? Especially if no record of HG change.

Let’s ignore that quote.  It’s widely known original factory installed 05-09 HGs leak oil and get worse over time.

 

7 hours ago, bork said:

 So I might be ok buying a 05-09 with 250k miles on it and not worry about coolant getting in oil and ruining engine? 

No Subaru since 1994 mixes coolant and oil, don’t need to worry about that.  It can happen but it’s an outlier.

250,000 is a decent chunk of miles.  Choose wisely.

 

[idosubaru]

Already done HG depends on quality of the job as already stated. Subaru Dealers seem to have a good track record with HG.

If you find one done at a dealer you can ask the local dealers about that VIN number.  They can often tell you what’s been done to it. 

[GeneralDisorder]

Dealers still use the 633 gaskets rather than the superior 642 or 770 and in general their technician level of competency is rather poor. Subaru and other dealers don't want to spend any more on training than they need to. Monkeys that swap entire assemblies are much easier to train and cheaper to pay than a REAL technician that can diagnose, disassemble intricate parts, and reassemble correctly. 

It's absolutely a false sense of security to believe in the superiority of the job just because it's a "dealership". Personally I wouldn't put any more faith in it than a proper independent job especially if no part numbers are listed. 

GD 

[heartless]

i had a 2002 Forester - EJ251 - that had 214K when I bought it.. i did find (after purchase) that it did have the hg done at about 85k.  Just recently sold it on with 267k and to be honest, i think she was starting to lose coolant again.. during periodic checks of fluids (about once a month) the overflow bottle would be nearly empty - radiator was always full tho..

Just picked up a 2004 Forester with EJ251 & about 185k... no idea if gaskets have ever been done.. so far fluids are staying steady.

Both cars were reasonably clean for their ages, and appeared to be well maintained over the years.

General appearance can be quite telling - wear and tear on upholstery, engine bay, general condition of the exterior and so on.. interiors will tell you more than anything else.

a local to me independent shop that i occasionally use called me one day with the offer of an Outback - dont remember exactly what year - current owner did not want to pay to fix it.. I went to look at it.. the interior was just FILTHY - sticky goo in the cup holders, with change & other debris stuck in it.. mileage was kinda low for its age, which is why the shop owner called me to offer it.. he knows i like my Subarus. =) after a quick inspection of the car i told him thanks but no thanks.. that car had been seriously abused and i wanted no part of it.

[Numbchux]

7 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Dealers still use the 633 gaskets rather than the superior 642 or 770 and in general their technician level of competency is rather poor. Subaru and other dealers don't want to spend any more on training than they need to. Monkeys that swap entire assemblies are much easier to train and cheaper to pay than a REAL technician that can diagnose, disassemble intricate parts, and reassemble correctly. 

It's absolutely a false sense of security to believe in the superiority of the job just because it's a "dealership". Personally I wouldn't put any more faith in it than a proper independent job especially if no part numbers are listed. 

GD 

This is usually true. The dealership I worked at actually did use 770 gaskets, and had a couple really good techs. But, having plenty of issues meant high turnover (myself included) and some pretty novice guys in the shop.

But, having worked in auto parts here for about 15 years, I have dealt with most of the local independent shops, too. And there's only a couple that I would trust to torque a lug nut correctly, much less do head gaskets.

 

What I'm saying, is either one could go either way. About the only thing you can verify with 100% certainty, is to ask for the repair invoice that shows the part number of the gaskets that were used. If they knew enough to use the correct gasket, that's a very good sign.

[Numbchux]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:17 PM, bork said:

I saved this to my pc file. I don't know who quoted it? But do most of you agree with the statement below? 05-09 would only leak oil externally? So I might be ok buying a 05-09 with 250k miles on it and not worry about coolant getting in oil and ruining engine? Especially if no record of HG change.

Quoted by unknown

I disagree with that so much, I deleted it when I quoted your post.

 

EJ22t is definitely not the best Subaru engine ever made.

I've owned several high mileage 00-04 Ej25s. Never had coolant leak out the block. They all leaked oil externally. These use the exact same head gasket as the 05-09.

 

Now, of course, we're talking about ~20 year old engines. There are soo many variables in maintenance and care that have a bigger effect on the future running than any design changes. For example, I have an '02 Outback H6 that's been clearly beat up, neglected, and left for dead, and it has a dead cylinder, at 130k miles. And my daily is a '00 EJ25 with 355k on it, that runs beautifully.