Christmas Tree oh Christmas Tree

[owen.alex]

Alright everyone. Tonight, my friend and I were cruising, and I suggested we go in a little off-road excursion just for fun. In my 2005 2.5 Legacy Outback, I attempted to get over some snow. Key word being attempted. I failed. She got stuck, so we tried digging her out and setting a blanket in front of and behind the tires multiple times to give he traction. This did not help. Everything we did just caused her wheels to spin. What especially sucked was that we were ten feet into the snow. We could legitimately see the gravel behind us 10 feet away, and the pavement another 20 feet beyond that. So, my friend called someone who lives in town and he came and gave us a tow in his Jeep Cherokee 4x4. We got out, but not without some surprises. I've had the battery and brake lights on for forever (6 months at least) so I wasn't worried about those. What I was worried about though were the check engine light and the cruise control light blinking. I looked in my owner's manual and couldn't find anything for why the cruise was blinking, and assumed I'd need a reader for the CEL to be able to pin down what was wrong there. When I didn't find anything in the manual about the cruise, I went online and found that the CEL and blinking cruise often come on together when A: there is either bad gas in the car, or B: the Traction Control Unit (TCU) is confused. I know it couldn't be bad gas because I'd drive 200 miles today already on the same tank, so I started looking at the TCU as the cause of the issue. My friend has had a similar thing happen to him in his 2010 Ford Fusion when he beached himself on snow, and he suggested an easy fix was to turn my traction control off and then on again, just to reset it. Unfortunately, I can't do that as I cannot seem to figure out a way to turn my traction control off like he can. My question for you guys is does this even seem right? I live in a small town, there is no Subaru dealership near me, and I'm still not entirely sure that the TCU is why the CEL turned on. Do you guys have any ideas? I think I can get my hands on a reader this Sunday and run some diagnostics, but until then, what are my option? All I know for sure is that the blinking cruise simply seems to indicate that there is something wrong enough with the car that it won't allow me to set the cruise. Back when it was just the brake and battery lights on, I could still set cruise, but not anymore. I will be the first to admit that this was a stupid idea and I was lucky I didn't need a tow truck to come get me instead. Thanks for any help guys. I appreciate it a lot.

Edited January 12, 2022 by owen.alex

[brus brother]

Take a deep breath.

Once the CEL is on, the cruise control becomes disabled.

Oftentimes, the CEL will clear after a number of drive miles/cycles where the car isn't experiencing "unusual" circumstances.

Once the CEL is off, the cruise should return.

Clearing codes is easy BUT get the code reader and determine what the fault is first. BTW, if you clear the code yourself, unlike letting the code reset naturally, there will be a learning period for the engine so don't set the mental alarm anew if there is rough running. Let us know if you need the procedure to facilitate the learning.

Now, as far as your Evel Knievel impersonation goes...

Edited January 12, 2022 by brus brother

[laegion]

5 hours ago, owen.alex said:

Alright everyone. Tonight, my friend and I were cruising, and I suggested we go in a little off-road excursion just for fun. In my 2005 2.0 Legacy Outback, I attempted to get over some snow. Key word being attempted. I failed. She got stuck, so we tried digging her out and setting a blanket in front of and behind the tires multiple times to give he traction. This did not help. Everything we did just caused her wheels to spin. What especially sucked was that we were ten feet into the snow. We could legitimately see the gravel behind us 10 feet away, and the pavement another 20 feet beyond that. So, my friend called someone who lives in town and he came and gave us a tow in his Jeep Cherokee 4x4. We got out, but not without some surprises. I've had the battery and brake lights on for forever (6 months at least) so I wasn't worried about those. What I was worried about though were the check engine light and the cruise control light blinking. I looked in my owner's manual and couldn't find anything for why the cruise was blinking, and assumed I'd need a reader for the CEL to be able to pin down what was wrong there. When I didn't find anything in the manual about the cruise, I went online and found that the CEL and blinking cruise often come on together when A: there is either bad gas in the car, or B: the Traction Control Unit (TCU) is confused. I know it couldn't be bad gas because I'd drive 200 miles today already on the same tank, so I started looking at the TCU as the cause of the issue. My friend has had a similar thing happen to him in his 2010 Ford Fusion when he beached himself on snow, and he suggested an easy fix was to turn my traction control off and then on again, just to reset it. Unfortunately, I can't do that as I cannot seem to figure out a way to turn my traction control off like he can. My question for you guys is does this even seem right? I live in a small town, there is no Subaru dealership near me, and I'm still not entirely sure that the TCU is why the CEL turned on. Do you guys have any ideas? I think I can get my hands on a reader this Sunday and run some diagnostics, but until then, what are my option? All I know for sure is that the blinking cruise simply seems to indicate that there is something wrong enough with the car that it won't allow me to set the cruise. Back when it was just the brake and battery lights on, I could still set cruise, but not anymore. I will be the first to admit that this was a stupid idea and I was lucky I didn't need a tow truck to come get me instead. Thanks for any help guys. I appreciate it a lot.

Maybe it's just me...but I feel that having the "battery and brake lights on for forever (6 months at least)", should be just as concerning as these new developments.

[heartless]

you can also go to pretty much any of the large chain auto parts stores and get the codes read for free. they will NOT reset them, but they will tell you what is present and give you a printout if you ask for it. Get those codes and post them here in the order the car presented them. And yeah, Cruise light flashing just means it has been disabled by the vehicle until the other things are addressed, or reset.

Very probable that something got moisture where it should not have and that is where the light show is coming from.

Also, just to clarify here.. TCU is Transmission Control Unit on a Subaru, not traction control.. .that would come up as VDC - Vehicle Dynamics Control.

And both battery AND brake lights on? Battery light is not really something to ignore.. Battery light on is an indicator that your charging system is not functioning correctly - I would also have a charging system check done while at the parts store - again, most of the large chains will do this for free.

Brake light is not quite as worrisome and could be something simple, like your parking brake handle very slightly raised... but, check your brake fluid level.. make sure it is where it should be. the light will come on if the fluid level drops too low. If the level is low, you need to top it up, and then try to figure out WHY it was low - ie: leaking somewhere?

Warning lights in the dash are typically not something you should just ignore.. they are there for a reason - you need to find out what the car is trying to tell you and then fix the issue.

[Numbchux]

Agreed.

You need an Alternator

Read the codes and diagnose, cruise will return.

You have a 2.5, unless it's been swapped.

You likely need transfer clutches (ASSuming you have an automatic. I'm guessing this is why you got stuck).

[el_freddo]

If your brake fluid is low this could also indicate the need for new brake pads, check these too before going all in on a brake fluid top up - otherwise you could overflow the reservoir when you put the new pads in depending on how you do your pad changes. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[owen.alex]

3 hours ago, laegion said:

Maybe it's just me...but I feel that having the "battery and brake lights on for forever (6 months at least)", should be just as concerning as these new developments.

I was for a while, but I asked around, found that it was a loose connection with my battery and that at some point it may just die on me, so I've just been carrying a new battery with me wherever I go for the last few months. Believe me I was concerned at first, but not any more.

[owen.alex]

3 hours ago, heartless said:

you can also go to pretty much any of the large chain auto parts stores and get the codes read for free. they will NOT reset them, but they will tell you what is present and give you a printout if you ask for it. Get those codes and post them here in the order the car presented them. And yeah, Cruise light flashing just means it has been disabled by the vehicle until the other things are addressed, or reset.

Very probable that something got moisture where it should not have and that is where the light show is coming from.

Also, just to clarify here.. TCU is Transmission Control Unit on a Subaru, not traction control.. .that would come up as VDC - Vehicle Dynamics Control.

And both battery AND brake lights on? Battery light is not really something to ignore.. Battery light on is an indicator that your charging system is not functioning correctly - I would also have a charging system check done while at the parts store - again, most of the large chains will do this for free.

Brake light is not quite as worrisome and could be something simple, like your parking brake handle very slightly raised... but, check your brake fluid level.. make sure it is where it should be. the light will come on if the fluid level drops too low. If the level is low, you need to top it up, and then try to figure out WHY it was low - ie: leaking somewhere?

Warning lights in the dash are typically not something you should just ignore.. they are there for a reason - you need to find out what the car is trying to tell you and then fix the issue.

Thank you so much! You are correct about the battery light. I went into an advanced auto parts (the only autoparts chain in our town) and they said either the battery isn't charging or there was a loose connection. They had me go home, charge my battery and come back the next day where they found that it was a loose connection, so I've just been carrying an extra battery and an extra few charges wherever I go for the last few months. 

Regarding the TCU, thank you for clearing that up. Maybe I'll check on that too. But I will definitely go over the advanced auto later today and see if they can read me some codes. I thought they only did battery diagnostics since it was advertised in their window. Thank you for all the help!

[owen.alex]

3 hours ago, Numbchux said:

Agreed.

You need an Alternator

Read the codes and diagnose, cruise will return.

You have a 2.5, unless it's been swapped.

You likely need transfer clutches (ASSuming you have an automatic. I'm guessing this is why you got stuck).

I've replaced the alternator multiple times with this car, ever time thinking that it wasn't charging the battery. The last time I had it diagnosed I found that there was just a loose connection, so I've been carrying extra charges and a battery with me wherever I go. You are also correct, I have a 2.5. I was tired when I got home at midnight and wrote this, lol. Thank you for the help.

[owen.alex]

7 hours ago, brus brother said:

Take a deep breath.

Once the CEL is on, the cruise control becomes disabled.

Oftentimes, the CEL will clear after a number of drive miles/cycles where the car isn't experiencing "unusual" circumstances.

Once the CEL is off, the cruise should return.

Clearing codes is easy BUT get the code reader and determine what the fault is first. BTW, if you clear the code yourself, unlike letting the code reset naturally, there will be a learning period for the engine so don't set the mental alarm anew if there is rough running. Let us know if you need the procedure to facilitate the learning.

Now, as far as your Evel Knievel impersonation goes...

Thank you! I definitely will come back here and let you know what I've found. I have top go into work today and am planning on getting my codes read after work. Hopefully I learn some things. 

[1 Lucky Texan]

superb posts above.

If you think there could have been any large rocks under the snow, make sure the transmission pan isn't dented.

[owen.alex]

22 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

superb posts above.

If you think there could have been any large rocks under the snow, make sure the transmission pan isn't dented.

I would but I didn't bottom out. My tires just got stuck on ice and started spinning. I never scraped. Lucky 7.5 inch clearance I guess, lol.

[owen.alex]

Thank you for everyone who put in their input! Today while I was driving home from work, I planned to stop off at advanced auto parts to get it read with an obd2, On the way the check engine light turned itself off. I assumes this means I am all good now? There is no blinking cruise control light either now.

[GeneralDisorder]

CEL is just from wheel spin - the car is pissed about differential wheel speeds. Should clear on it's own in a few miles. 

Battery light is an indication that the voltage is higher at the battery or the alternator - this lamp is in series with the field flash circuit and comes on when there is a higher voltage potential at one or the other. Either the battery is bad (which can damage the alternator) or the alternator is bad. Cheap alternators are junk. See this a lot. 

Brake lamp is on because the alternator's bridge rectifier and smoothing caps are not generating a smooth DC current. You have AC ripple on the charging circuit and this is defeating diodes in the gauge cluster causing the brake warning lamp to illuminate. Or you are low on brake fluid (pads are worn). 

GD

[heartless]

14 hours ago, owen.alex said:

Thank you for everyone who put in their input! Today while I was driving home from work, I planned to stop off at advanced auto parts to get it read with an obd2, On the way the check engine light turned itself off. I assumes this means I am all good now? There is no blinking cruise control light either now.

probably fine, but the codes will be stored in memory.

And Yes, Advance can do code reads for you. As mentioned, they wont clear them, but they can read them and probably give you a printout.

Bad battery can kill an alternator... flip side of that, Bad alternator can kill a battery.. the two work hand in hand to keep things working right.

FIX that bad connection!! don't put it off, Find it, Fix it!  That bad connection is probably the reason you have had to put so many alternators in.. (altho i do agree with GD on the aftermarket alts being junk, lol)

[1 Lucky Texan]

in case you didn't know, an app for your smartphone and an ELM327 BT adapter or similar from Amazon can let you read codes and do more. Cheap-ish too. (some free apps, and ,adapters under 30-40 bucks.)

[idosubaru]

Clear the terminals, clamps, and battery posts, and tighten them. 

Carrying around a new battery is a good way for it to be a total !(%)*( by the time you install it.  Just install the new battery, they don't store well outside of a controlled charging environment. 

Alt output should be tested.  

CEL was caused by wheel spin or snow/mud packed up in the wheel sensor that has now fallen/dried off. 

You were probably high centered on the snow, it can look like it wasnt when it mostly definitely was.  It takes less than you think to high center a vehicle in snow/mud.

You tires may also be old - old tires are horrendous in the snow due to the way rubber materials degrade over time.  Cheaper tires degrade faster.  I'm surprised how little is known about this in car world.  If your tires are cheap and more than 2 years old or great and 4-5+ years old, they're going to be poor performing in snow.

[heartless]

16 hours ago, idosubaru said:

You tires may also be old - old tires are horrendous in the snow due to the way rubber materials degrade over time.  Cheaper tires degrade faster.  I'm surprised how little is known about this in car world.  If your tires are cheap and more than 2 years old or great and 4-5+ years old, they're going to be poor performing in snow.

agreed!
the rubber compound (blend of materials) used to make the tires is a huge factor.. Cheap or expensive.
Touring tires are not going to do as well on snow/ice... the compound is too hard - this is what makes them last so long. They are great in the summer, or in places that dont see a lot of snow, but not so great in winter. snow tires are a softer compound, having more flexibility, but will also wear faster.

Also, how much you drive the vehicle will be a factor in how long your tires hold up.. the rolling friction of going down the road does play into this. Tires that sit will dry out much faster than tires that move.