Whining noise in 1st and reverse?

[Liftedlego96]

I have a 96 legacy l sedan with alittle over 150k miles on it. Ever since I bought it it has had a whining noise when in 1st and in reverse.  Not sure if it's common or not? Also it's a 5spd manual. It doesn't seem to be getting worse or effecting anything but I would like to know the cause and if it may become an issue in the future. Thanks ahead of time for any info. 

[lmdew]

You might want to drain the gear lube, inspect it and the drain plug.  Plug will have fuzz but no part #'s.  Also put your finger in the trans and feel around on the bottom once drained.

I'd suggest Amsoil gear lube when you fill it back up.  It might give  you a longer life.  

[Liftedlego96]

Yah? Possibly trans/dif issue? I was hoping that wouldn't be it but accepted it as a possibility. It's my daily so I baby it. But it's also a bit of a project. I was thinking about swapping the engine and drive train to something with a little more power/more suitable for offroading. It's got an ej22e and I love the practicality of it but after putting 04 forester struts and 205/65/16s on it I feel like more power would be best. Specially if I want to put bigger all terrain tires on it this spring. I haven't done much digging on gear ratios and don't know what it has but I'm sure there is a better option if I want to do alittle offroading regularly.

[lmdew]

Get an old GL with H/L Transfer or a Jeep!

[laegion]

I wouldn't ditch that motor...it's actually kinda desirable because of how reliable and easy to work on they are.

I dunno about what people in this forum think of the idea; but before I bought my '03 Outback I was planning on bolting on some stock turbo parts from an early 2000's 2.0l WRX as they will bolt onto the dual port ej22. I only managed to get as far as 2002 WRX 2-pot front rotors and calipers.

Another possibility ( but expensive and difficult to get here) is getting a manual transmission with a low gear in it. Sadly they were not available here; but there are places in Australia that sell parts and kits.

Personally I would never recommend building a '95-'99 legacy (maybe others but these are the ones I've researched most) with a manual transmission for offroad. The gearing in the MT is not low enough to creep. The auto of that era (4eat) is far better offroad (unless you're comparing to an MT with gear reduction) because the 4eat auto has a better transfer clutch for offroad and because the torque converter allows you to creep better even with a slightly higher first gear ratio.

I have a '95 Legacy L with '99 Outback struts and 205/65R16 and it goes quite well on and off-road; but I have to take things slower and pick my lines more carefully than I did with my Suzuki Sj410 with spring over axle conversion on 32" ATs or my '94 K2500 on 33" MTs.

I'm not sure what kind of terrain you're off-roading in but personally the only thing I'd change about my '95 would be to add skid plates and get some better tires in the same size.

Edited January 17, 2022 by laegion

[laegion]

6 hours ago, Liftedlego96 said:

Yah? Possibly trans/dif issue? I was hoping that wouldn't be it but accepted it as a possibility. It's my daily so I baby it. But it's also a bit of a project. I was thinking about swapping the engine and drive train to something with a little more power/more suitable for offroading. It's got an ej22e and I love the practicality of it but after putting 04 forester struts and 205/65/16s on it I feel like more power would be best. Specially if I want to put bigger all terrain tires on it this spring. I haven't done much digging on gear ratios and don't know what it has but I'm sure there is a better option if I want to do alittle offroading regularly.

When was the last time the gear oil was changed...if it's getting thin it would be normal to hear more gear noise. Most likely it's just got miles and some wear. I don't know of this is universal but I've always noticed with MTs the lower gears are usually slightly noisier than the others. Maybe a function of tooth count or maybe the angle the gears are cut at or both. I've never seen inside one of those so I don't know.

[Liftedlego96]

I think I'll stick with my legacy ha an old GL huh? I'm interested.  If I pull the motor it will not be wasted. I have no idea about the gear oil. I've only had the thing for 8 months or so but I've taken a liking to it. Thanks for all the insight. 

[laegion]

8 hours ago, Liftedlego96 said:

I think I'll stick with my legacy ha an old GL huh? I'm interested.  If I pull the motor it will not be wasted. I have no idea about the gear oil. I've only had the thing for 8 months or so but I've taken a liking to it. Thanks for all the insight. 

They are awesome little cars...I've been through and over many things I'd never expect a car, even lifted, would make it through. There are even some things I like more about it than my '03 outback...like how light it is...and easier to work on.

[Liftedlego96]

They really are extremely easy to tinker on. Now that I've thought it over, I don't see myself doing any crazy offroading with it and it's not made to be a speed demon so I think I'll just leave the original ej22e in it and if I need a new trany or dif then so be it but no sense in doing anything too wild with it. I like the lift though. So a few more upgrades just to help with handling  would be nice. It's still pretty fuel efficient even lifted so it's just an interesting daily driver ha

[el_freddo]

If you’re after better gearing over your way, drop a forester box and rear diff in with the 4.111:1 diff ratio. Run the same tyres as the forester for factory gearing, or larger for the height and rolling advantage when offroad. 

Pontoontodd seems to be developing a low range that will be a game changer, just need to wait for it to come out, in the mean time save your coin! 

Cheers 

Bennie

 

[Liftedlego96]

5 minutes ago, el_freddo said:

If you’re after better gearing over your way, drop a forester box and rear diff in with the 4.111:1 diff ratio. Run the same tyres as the forester for factory gearing, or larger for the height and rolling advantage when offroad. 

Pontoontodd seems to be developing a low range that will be a game changer, just need to wait for it to come out, in the mean time save your coin! 

Cheers 

That's a good idea. But would it still be ideal for my daily? I don't want it to be geared in a way that makes it impractical.  Might keep my 96 as my daily and find another 2nd Gen legacy that I can fully outfit for offroading. Frankenstein it with a forester ha

[heartless]

not that much a fuel mileage difference between forester and legacy.. I have had both

the 95 Lego automatic I had, i put forester struts in and ran the 15" forester wheels.. got around 27-28mpg out of it on average.
the 02 Forester, pretty stock, also automatic, ran around 25-27mpgs, depending on the season.

i think i am getting slightly better with the 04 Forester, but it is a 5spd, lol

[laegion]

7 hours ago, heartless said:

not that much a fuel mileage difference between forester and legacy.. I have had both

the 95 Lego automatic I had, i put forester struts in and ran the 15" forester wheels.. got around 27-28mpg out of it on average.
the 02 Forester, pretty stock, also automatic, ran around 25-27mpgs, depending on the season.

i think i am getting slightly better with the 04 Forester, but it is a 5spd, lol

Wow...that's way better than I get with my '95. Did you drive a lot of highway miles?

[laegion]

16 hours ago, Liftedlego96 said:

They really are extremely easy to tinker on. Now that I've thought it over, I don't see myself doing any crazy offroading with it and it's not made to be a speed demon so I think I'll just leave the original ej22e in it and if I need a new trany or dif then so be it but no sense in doing anything too wild with it. I like the lift though. So a few more upgrades just to help with handling  would be nice. It's still pretty fuel efficient even lifted so it's just an interesting daily driver ha

Have you looked into tires that are just slightly bigger than stock Outback size? I figure with this ride height, plus slightly bigger tires with much better offroad tread, and skid plates one could get plenty of interesting places.

[laegion]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6kGnhiL6r2tnxPbJ6

[heartless]

3 hours ago, laegion said:

Wow...that's way better than I get with my '95. Did you drive a lot of highway miles?

not freeway, no.. but we do live in the country, so yeah, lol, lots of 55mph zones. Plus, relatively "flat" country.. rolling hills, nothing real steep - its all farmland around here
city mileage wont be near that, no.

[Liftedlego96]

On 1/18/2022 at 4:14 AM, laegion said:

Have you looked into tires that are just slightly bigger than stock Outback size? I figure with this ride height, plus slightly bigger tires with much better offroad tread, and skid plates one could get plenty of interesting places.

Not sure what stock tire size is for the outback but I'm running 205/65/16s and there isn't a whole lot of room in the wheel well for a larger tire. I'm sure I could go alittle bigger but not much. I think the forester trans and dif are my next upgrades. From there skid plates and upgraded sway bars just to keep it stable on the road when I'm not offroading. 

[laegion]

17 hours ago, Liftedlego96 said:

Not sure what stock tire size is for the outback but I'm running 205/65/16s and there isn't a whole lot of room in the wheel well for a larger tire. I'm sure I could go alittle bigger but not much. I think the forester trans and dif are my next upgrades. From there skid plates and upgraded sway bars just to keep it stable on the road when I'm not offroading. 

Swaybars? I haven't heard of many people upgrading swaybars on their legacy's but I'm sure it would help with road performace. I guess I've never really felt mine needed an upgrade.

the stock tire size for a 96-99 Outback is a 205/70r15 which is the same overall diameter is the 205/65/16. That's why I went with that size myself.

From my experience with previous 4wd vehicles I think a good offroad tread pattern would add a lot of grip. I've been thinking about the new Yokohama Geolander AT since I'm mostly on-road but they are much more aggressive offroad than the All-season's I have been running.

Another thing you could do to increase approach and departure angles is modifying the bumper covers...although this is one thing I like the L over the Outback for...it seems the L has more clearance there already due to not having as large or low hanging pumper covers. Although I'd have to compare them side by side to see exactly how much or how little difference it actually makes.

I've read of people fitting at least slightly larger tires especially with another inch of lift or so beyond the stock Outback ride height...like 215/70r16 or something similar...about 1/2 - 1" larger in diameter without cutting...but there could be rubbing at steering lock.

[Liftedlego96]

I

5 hours ago, laegion said:

Swaybars? I haven't heard of many people upgrading swaybars on their legacy's but I'm sure it would help with road performace. I guess I've never really felt mine needed an upgrade.

the stock tire size for a 96-99 Outback is a 205/70r15 which is the same overall diameter is the 205/65/16. That's why I went with that size myself.

From my experience with previous 4wd vehicles I think a good offroad tread pattern would add a lot of grip. I've been thinking about the new Yokohama Geolander AT since I'm mostly on-road but they are much more aggressive offroad than the All-season's I have been running.

Another thing you could do to increase approach and departure angles is modifying the bumper covers...although this is one thing I like the L over the Outback for...it seems the L has more clearance there already due to not having as large or low hanging pumper covers. Although I'd have to compare them side by side to see exactly how much or how little difference it actually makes.

I've read of people fitting at least slightly larger tires especially with another inch of lift or so beyond the stock Outback ride height...like 215/70r16 or something similar...about 1/2 - 1" larger in diameter without cutting...but there could be rubbing at steering lock.

Yah the sway bar thing interested me. They make larger diameter sway bars and bushings and links to go along with it. Just to stiffen things up abit. My legacy is alittle "swoopy" when I get going highway speeds and I think it would help. Plus the stock sway bar links are solid. With no articulating ball type joint it's kind of janky. The bolts are some what angled stressing out the link. The control arm is pretty angled now that I have forester struts in. I'd like to reduce the stress some how. I also was recently looking at that make of tires for the spring when I take my snow tires off.

[el_freddo]

I reckon you’ll find that boatiness is from sagged springs. Put a fresh set of springs in and it’ll transform your ride quality. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Liftedlego96]

5 hours ago, el_freddo said:

I reckon you’ll find that boatiness is from sagged springs. Put a fresh set of springs in and it’ll transform your ride quality. 

Cheers 

Bennie

I'm not so sure that is the issue. 2 months ago I installed brand new 04 forester struts. But mabey I need a better quality strut? I know both sway bars have some play so starting there may be cheaper and help narrow it down abit.

 

14 hours ago, laegion said:

 

[heartless]

KYB for struts - anything else is going to be too soft, and yes new springs DO make a big difference.. Match the spring to year strut you are using

see for yourself here: https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/168389-strut-top-nut/?tab=comments#comment-1395227

springs on the old strut in that image were shot and not supporting things like they should have been.

[Liftedlego96]

I should have said strut assembly, my bad. The springs and hardware were all brand new. But mabey you are right and I need a good quality spring. Still going to upgrade the sway bar and go from there. The links need to be renewed anyway and the bushings don't look much better, might as well upgrade. 

[heartless]

lol, not the bar that needs upgrading..just doing the links and bushings will make a huge difference

and there are NO "good" assemblies on the market for Subarus.. You buy the strut, spring and tophats separately..

KYB for struts,
KYB or OE for tophats
OE or King Springs  for springs..

if going all brand new and just want to change assemblies, which i have done, you will also need all the rubber bits (spring pads, boots, etc), spacer washers, etc that go along with it.

for mine, i went with the KYB Forester struts and KYB Legacy tophats, and OE Forester springs with the various bits and pieces purchased from reputable online Subaru parts sites.

total cost is not cheap - i did all 4 at one time, but well worth it in ride quality and handling.