Looking at an '04 LL Bean Outback

[Stevo F]

I've owned lots of Subaru's but never had an H6 before. Thinking of checking one out this weekend. It's got 167K miles, appears to have little rust, was told it doesn't use or leak much oil. Curious what I should be looking for when I check this one out (I already will check for torque bind on the test drive, excessive undercarriage rust, etc..) but anything in particular with the H-6 engine?

In general I'm hoping for a cheaper winter car where I don't have to worry about a timing belt and hopefully not headgaskets.

Thanks, Steve

 

[laegion]

1 hour ago, Stevo F said:

I've owned lots of Subaru's but never had an H6 before. Thinking of checking one out this weekend. It's got 167K miles, appears to have little rust, was told it doesn't use or leak much oil. Curious what I should be looking for when I check this one out (I already will check for torque bind on the test drive, excessive undercarriage rust, etc..) but anything in particular with the H-6 engine?

In general I'm hoping for a cheaper winter car where I don't have to worry about a timing belt and hopefully not headgaskets.

Thanks, Steve

 

bubbling in the overflow tank at idle when warm, indicating a bad head gasket. Oil leaks on the front cover or from one of the oil pan gaskets may indicate the PCV valve wasn't changed regularly.

The Moonroof tracks and motors have a tendency to get stripped out or the drains to get clogged.

Make sure it has subaru green coolant. Regular green isn't right for the H6.

Also, listen for chain slap as the tensioners can start going bad as early as 150k 

That's all I can think of at the moment. 

[Stevo F]

I just took a look at it. The engine seemed to run quietly and it drove pretty nice. The seller disclosed the the CV joint is noisy on turns which I did hear. I also noticed a bit of a shake under the car when letting off the gas and am guessing it has either worn u-joints or carrier bearing and may need a driveshaft.

I did notice that it appears the overflow tank was full which makes me concerned about headgaskets, or else maybe it just needs a radiator cap. I mentioned to the seller that there likely be bubbles in the radiator when removing the cap. He had to leave but said he would make a video of the radiator with the cap of in the morning when it's lighter. The coolant in the overflow tank is concerning to me though, but everything on the car seemed to work.

[lmdew]

Check the radiator level when cool.  See if it's full.  

[laegion]

I will say, after owning a '95 Legacy L Wagon with an EJ22 for the last 7 years...I am really enjoying my '03 Outback LL Bean...between the H6 and the heated leather seats and moonroofs I'm glad I bought one.

[1 Lucky Texan]

premium fuel needed in that engine.

 

shaking could be several things, but rear bushings for front lower control arms go 'fairly' early on some cars.

[Stevo F]

The seller lives near my office so after I drove the 60 miles home, I had a text from the seller “ So the results of our experiment are inconclusive. The coolant level was low by about 2 oz. Im going to replace the cap. There were no bubbles but the level was raising and lowering”.

He then wrote “I put a new cap on and the fluid level is still high so negligable air is in the system. Ill drive it tomorrow morning as its getting a bit too cold for me”

It sounds like he is thinking air is in the cooling system which is leaving the overflow tank full even when it cools down. I think I could deal with the little bit of shake and the noisy CV joint (also could use a couple of better front seats)  but I really don’t want to get into having headgaskets done, even though he’s come down on the price and I could probably get for $2,500 or less.

[Stevo F]

2 hours ago, laegion said:

I will say, after owning a '95 Legacy L Wagon with an EJ22 for the last 7 years...I am really enjoying my '03 Outback LL Bean...between the H6 and the heated leather seats and moonroofs I'm glad I bought one.

I let my ‘98 Legacy EJ22 wagon go last summer, after 8 years, and kind of miss having a wagon. I do like how the LL Bean drove.

[Numbchux]

Great cars, great engines. I have 3 of them on the road, planning to swap another into a Baja. I much prefer the VTD AWD that comes with the VDC models. It's a shame to have the nice premium car and engine in the LL Bean, and the crappy MPT AWD.

Only engine issues I've had are valve cover gaskets, oil cooler oring, coolant hoses (there are a few small ones between the water pump and oil cooler, they get oil contaminated and seep. Also metal lines in front of the oil pan and under the LH valve cover can rust through) and serpentine belt pullies (the bearings in these can seize with very little warning. Pull them off and give them a spin periodically. The bearing alone can be replaced on the factory pullies).

 

I use plain old green EG coolant and regular fuel.....occasionally if there's oxygenated premium for a decent price, I'll use that, but not very often.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

The H6's tend to blow HG's somewhere between 175k and 225k. At which point you just throw the engine away and get a JDM replacement - they are relatively inexpensive compared to replacing the HG's. 

Personally they are an avoid for me and anyone that asks my recommendation. Subaru already has a hard-on for discontinuing parts to make room in their warehouses and doubly so for anything they made relatively low numbers of (try to get a part for a Justy or an SVX). Stick with the basics (4 cylinder, non turbo) and you will be much better served for parts on cars that are approaching two decades old. 

Some of the H6 cars had VDC transmissions - which are exceptionally hard to find replacements for. You'll run into issues finding quality replacements for electrical stuff.... it's not worth the hassle to have a few more HP on a 20 year old station wagon IMO. And this situation will only get worse - going into ownership of one now is foolish in my opinion. Especially one that may have questionable HG's already. I wouldn't waste my time. 

GD 

Edited January 22, 2022 by GeneralDisorder

[Numbchux]

The 4-cylinders are more common, but these are not rare. I bet they made more EZ30s in 2001 than all the SVXs over the years, not to mention the fact that the EZ platform carried on with some changes until just a few years ago. I've had zero trouble getting new parts for mine.

[Ferret54]

Having owned a 2001 Outback, other than the known EJ25/4EAT problems, my biggest concern was the rear wheel rot. I can handle the mechanical parts, but I'm NOT a body guy. There is a small pocket on the 95-99 and 00-04 wagons that traps water, road crap and in the north winter salt. It rots right thru to the trunk, and more rot begins.

When we realized how bad it had become, my friends body shop buddy took the car for a few weeks, cut all the rot out and welded in smooth areas. No more pockets to catch crap and rot. That was 4 years before we sold that and his repair was still holding up.

When I see any wagon from that time, I have yet to see one myself without rot, or a duct tape type repair.

[laegion]

1 hour ago, Ferret54 said:

Having owned a 2001 Outback, other than the known EJ25/4EAT problems, my biggest concern was the rear wheel rot. I can handle the mechanical parts, but I'm NOT a body guy. There is a small pocket on the 95-99 and 00-04 wagons that traps water, road crap and in the north winter salt. It rots right thru to the trunk, and more rot begins.

When we realized how bad it had become, my friends body shop buddy took the car for a few weeks, cut all the rot out and welded in smooth areas. No more pockets to catch crap and rot. That was 4 years before we sold that and his repair was still holding up.

When I see any wagon from that time, I have yet to see one myself without rot, or a duct tape type repair.

It really depends where you are. Neither my '95 or my '03 have any kind of rust other than some surface rust on the undercarriage and exhaust. I'm in the Inland Northwest though and it's dry here.

[idosubaru]

On 1/22/2022 at 1:41 AM, Stevo F said:

The seller lives near my office so after I drove the 60 miles home, I had a text from the seller “ So the results of our experiment are inconclusive. The coolant level was low by about 2 oz. Im going to replace the cap. There were no bubbles but the level was raising and lowering”.

He then wrote “I put a new cap on and the fluid level is still high so negligable air is in the system. Ill drive it tomorrow morning as its getting a bit too cold for me”

It sounds like he is thinking air is in the cooling system which is leaving the overflow tank full even when it cools down. I think I could deal with the little bit of shake and the noisy CV joint (also could use a couple of better front seats)  but I really don’t want to get into having headgaskets done, even though he’s come down on the price and I could probably get for $2,500 or less.

Nope.  I wouldn't do it unless you're ready for an engine swap.  H6's swap exactly like H4's if you've ever done a subaru. 

Cooling system anomalies like you're describing are classic H6 headgasket sypmptoms. They can also be intermittent, so I wouldn't trust one week of it running with no symptoms/coolant loss.   It ran hot or smelled funny...someone topped the coolant level off...and thought it was "fixed"...it prompted them to sell when they're getting a whiff of looming potential issues/costs...but still think it's "fixed" because they topped it off or someone (a shop/friend) told them it was.  But it's not. 

Proceed cautiously

[el_freddo]

If you’re up for an engine swap try a low ball offer. If they think that’s offensive tell them to do some research on H6 blown head gasket symptoms - because that’s what you think the issue is with the car. 

Then negotiate from there if you’re still keen and the seller is willing to engage if they haven’t taken your lowball offer. Once you have the vehicle buy the JDM H6 unit like GD suggested and go from there. 

Then see if you can flog the original H6 off to a Porsche owner looking to upgrade or enhance their H6  It might not sell but it’s worth a try to get some coin back.

Cheers 

Bennie

[ThosL]

One good thing about products with the LL Bean label is they are like Craftsman tools, guaranteed for life!  So if it ever fails to give customer satisfaction, you can call their toll free 800 number and will find out how to get a full refund!

[1197sts]

My son just bought a 2001 LL Bean with the EZ30D. It has 229K on it and is overheating. It definitely looks like bad headgaskets after doing some troubleshooting. Other than that the car is pretty good mechanically. I have a lot of experience with EJ251's, but none with the H6. My plan is to put in a JDM engine, the question is what should I do the engine proactively before I put it in? I am thinking plugs, valve cover gaskets, oil cooler gasket, thermostat, belt tensioner and idler pulleys. I have read all about the issues with the timing chain tensioners, some say change the guides and tensioners, some say change everything, some say leave it alone. I am thinking it might be best to leave it alone, what would you recommend?

[1 Lucky Texan]

others will have better advice, just chiming in to say a coupla things;

about the only item not on your list that I MIGHT consider would be a crank angle sensor - just because of easy access I guess.....

you will want to be diligent about the torque converter not shifting outwards of course.

and for JDM, you will need to extend the brake booster's connection - probably a length of hose, some short piece of tubing to connect and a coupla hose clamps.

Edited January 30, 2022 by 1 Lucky Texan

[idosubaru]

18 hours ago, 1197sts said:

My son just bought a 2001 LL Bean with the EZ30D. It has 229K on it and is overheating. It definitely looks like bad headgaskets after doing some troubleshooting. Other than that the car is pretty good mechanically. I have a lot of experience with EJ251's, but none with the H6. My plan is to put in a JDM engine, the question is what should I do the engine proactively before I put it in? I am thinking plugs, valve cover gaskets, oil cooler gasket, thermostat, belt tensioner and idler pulleys. I have read all about the issues with the timing chain tensioners, some say change the guides and tensioners, some say change everything, some say leave it alone. I am thinking it might be best to leave it alone, what would you recommend?

Good list.  That is exactly what I would do to it.  Maybe radiator hoses depending on visual check.

A new radiator and hoses isn't a bad idea at some point particularly considering the lower availability of H6 parts. 

[1197sts]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I am planning on swapping intake manifolds, so the brake booster hose shouldn't be an issue. I actually am planning on doing the radiator just forgot to put it on the list. What are your thoughts on water pumps? I always change them on the EJ engines, do they hold up better on the H6?

[idosubaru]

3 hours ago, 1197sts said:

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I am planning on swapping intake manifolds, so the brake booster hose shouldn't be an issue. I actually am planning on doing the radiator just forgot to put it on the list. What are your thoughts on water pumps? I always change them on the EJ engines, do they hold up better on the H6?

Yes they hold up better in H6s. the labor to replace is extensive and cumbersome to do inside the engine bay - so it’s much easier to do now. 

I do H6 water pumps only if I’m already taking the timing covers off. If the covers are dry and I’m not removing them I don’t replace the water pump.  

Disclaimer - That was my approach 10 years ago when I did a lot of H6 engine work and swaps. I haven’t done many recently so it’s getting more prudent to consider replacing based on age. I’d still do the same today outside of any significant additional info like if the engine was suspected of sitting for a very long period of time or other gaskets seem deteriorated more than normal.

Their only, rare, failure mode is leaking at the weep hole slowly so it’s not typically a dangerous or a stranding event. While I’m not a shop or mechanic so I’ve only been around a couple dozen H6s, I’ve never seen a failed H6 water pump. But of course it does happen. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by idosubaru