Advice on Purchase of 1999 Impreza Outback Sport

[truebaru]

I've been trying to find a thread on this, but haven't been able to...

I'm a college student getting ready to move cross country. I currently own a 2011 Civic, but I'm looking for something that roomier and that is a little more fun to drive than my Civic. I found a MT 1999 Impreza Outback Sport with 115k miles where I live for a decent price. I'm seriously considering the car, but I'm worried about reliability across the country.

The EJ22 seems to be the most reliable Subaru engine, but from what I understand it still has head gasket problems. I've seen conflicting advice on whether these problems are self-induced or whether they only come when people rev out their engines regularly.

Any advice on whether I should steer clear from this car for my needs, where I value reliability highly?

Thanks!

Edited March 15, 2022 by truebaru

[laegion]

Head gaskets where never more of an issue on the EJ22 than any other aluminum engine in any other brand. The headgaskets typically are good unless it's been overheated. With good maintenance they'll go 300k+ so if it's in good shape it will be as reliable as any other 23 year old car.

The main question I would have about a car this old with so few miles is if it sat for long periods of time without being run which could cause gasket or other issues.

Any engine that gets driven like a race car when it's not designed for it is going to have a shorter life.

My first questions would be how many owners it's had. What was the maintenance like.

at 115k it should have already had a timing belt, water pump, and idlers done. When was it done and by whom. etc.

Also check the coolant overflow (at idle while running) after driving around for a bit and getting it warmed up to make sure there are no bubbles going into the overflow from the radiator. That's typically what you'll see with an EJ22 with a bad head gasket, also could be coolant in oil or oil in coolant; but from what I understand that is a rare issue with the EJ22.

However,  it's best to have a Subaru or import mechanic look it over for you. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by laegion

[truebaru]

@laegion Thanks for the informative reply. I'll be sure to get all this information before I decide one way or another!

[lmdew]

Great car.  Mileage will be less then the Honda.  Subaru AWD eats some of that mileage.  It's a trade.  I had a 98 OBS 325K on it when I sold it and it's still going.  I have a 2001 OBS now.  Both were lifted with Forester struts.  Great cars, easy to work on.  Ask if and when the timing belt was replaced and hopefully they did all the idlers and cam and crank seals as well.

[idosubaru]

13 hours ago, truebaru said:

I've been trying to find a thread on this, but haven't been able to...

I'm a college student getting ready to move cross country. I currently own a 2011 Civic, but I'm looking for something that roomier and that is a little more fun to drive than my Civic. I found a MT 1999 Impreza Outback Sport with 115k miles where I live for a decent price. I'm seriously considering the car, but I'm worried about reliability across the country.

The EJ22 seems to be the most reliable Subaru engine, but from what I understand it still has head gasket problems. I've seen conflicting advice on whether these problems are self-induced or whether they only come when people rev out their engines regularly.

Any advice on whether I should steer clear from this car for my needs, where I value reliability highly?

Thanks!

 

*Install new Subaru timing belt and lower cogged idler at a bare minimum.  Takes an hour, parts are roughly $125.  $400-$800 at a dealer or $200-$500 at a local shop. Even if they have "a new timing belt" I still always install a new Subaru belt and lower idler.  Because they usually don't change that idler which is prone to fail and aftermarket belts are known to fail early.  They bend valves if the belt breaks.  

That is all I'd want to ensure before a long road trip and moving. 

Ideally the following are checked or considered or addressed as well:

Brakes - clean and regrease the slides with Sil Glyde or some other high performance grease.  If you're headed east this would be wise too as that higher end grease performs better in our salty/chemically treated winter garbage out east. 

Check the drive belt and battery connections and age. Clean and tigthen battery posts and connections.

Spark plugs, wires, PCV valve, air fitler - general tune up stuff.  Use stock NGK plugs only and Subaru or NGK wires and Subaru pcv valve.  Very easy job on that vehicle. In the end a bad wire or plug will just give you a check engine light that's benign (you can keep driving) and you fix it when youi have time - so it's not a big deal or worry of a stranding situation.

12 hours ago, laegion said:

Head gaskets where never more of an issue on the EJ22 than any other aluminum engine in any other brand.

Not the case.  There are two distinctive EJ22's for this discussion. The 99-01 EJ22's are not the same as the earlier subaru fan favorites of 1990-1998 EJ22's which were one of the best engines Subaru ever made.  So that's why there's incorrect, or conflicting, statements. 

The 99-01 EJ22 heads are essentially Phase II EJ25 heads - the valves and springs are identical and even have the same Subaru part number, and the heads themselves are identical except for the exhaust ports. It's not like earlier Ej22's where the heads were completely different designs from the EJ25 and shared no parts.  These are, by design, the same head molds, just tweaked for different exhaust ports. 

I'd still recommend getting it if it passes other assessment/requirements, but be aware of a few things when you look at it or in the future as an active owner of that vehicle. 

If they have the original manufacturer installed headgaskets from the factory they are prone to external leaks.  Usually oil and it usually gets worse very slowly over a long period of time.  You can wait and plan a repair for 10's of thousands of miles or just ignore it if you're not worried about drips here and there.   The good news is this is of zero consequence for reliability.  The bad news is it could have leaked/be leaking or have been repaired. 

1. I'd be looking for signs of repair and who did it or if a Subaru gasket was used. 

2. I'd be looking for signs of cleaning - squeaky clean, as if to remove lots of oil.  Or clean in some areas and saturated in areas that are hard to clean.  That would be a sign it's currently leaking and was cleaned up for sale. 

3. It has no signs of leaks at all now or in the past and you just drive the thing 100,000 more miles - which is a very likely scenario. 

 

 

[idosubaru]

13 hours ago, truebaru said:

 

Any advice on whether I should steer clear from this car for my needs, where I value reliability highly?

Thanks!

Great car.  If it's an automatic the transmissions are great, of least concern.  Engine is great - keeping in mind what I wrote about earlier.  Have a look at the engine with those things in mind.  They easily see 200,000 miles.

If it's been maintained at a local dealer - I'd stop in and ask if they can let me see the maintenance history of a car I'm about to buy and give them the VIN.  They've done that for me a number of times.  

[idosubaru]

5 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

 

 

1. I'd be looking for signs of repair and who did it or if a Subaru gasket was used. 

 

 

 

You can pop the hood and see the head gasket protruding from the head to engine mating surface.  Just follow that seem until you see a part oft he gasket sticking out.  Does it look new?  Can you take a picture and post it here or a link to it so we can see?  We can give you some feedback if you take good pictures of the gasket or any fluids. There's bound to be some CV splatter, or benign seepage, so don't worry about seeign some fluids - we can help tell the difference or where it's coming from for you if you get a good pic up. 

[GeneralDisorder]

I personally don't like the phase II EJ22 - it's prone to massive oil consumption due to ring issues. Wouldn't be my choice. On the positive side you can install an EJ25 in it's place easily.

GD

[laegion]

On 3/15/2022 at 9:53 AM, idosubaru said:

 

Not the case.  There are two distinctive EJ22's for this discussion. The 99-01 EJ22's are not the same as the earlier subaru fan favorites of 1990-1998 EJ22's which were one of the best engines Subaru ever made.  So that's why there's incorrect, or conflicting, statements. 

The 99-01 EJ22 heads are essentially Phase II EJ25 heads - the valves and springs are identical and even have the same Subaru part number, and the heads themselves are identical except for the exhaust ports. It's not like earlier Ej22's where the heads were completely different designs from the EJ25 and shared no parts.  These are, by design, the same head molds, just tweaked for different exhaust ports. 

I'd still recommend getting it if it passes other assessment/requirements, but be aware of a few things when you look at it or in the future as an active owner of that vehicle. 

If they have the original manufacturer installed headgaskets from the factory they are prone to external leaks.  Usually oil and it usually gets worse very slowly over a long period of time.  You can wait and plan a repair for 10's of thousands of miles or just ignore it if you're not worried about drips here and there.   The good news is this is of zero consequence for reliability.  The bad news is it could have leaked/be leaking or have been repaired. 

1. I'd be looking for signs of repair and who did it or if a Subaru gasket was used. 

 

 

So you're saying the phase II EJ22 uses the same head gaskets as the EJ251? or the EJ25D?

Edited March 18, 2022 by laegion

[idosubaru]

3 hours ago, laegion said:

So you're saying the phase II EJ22 uses the same head gaskets as the EJ251? or the EJ25D?

No I didn't say that.  The gasket matches the bore of the cylinder.  Don't take what I said as a design engineering 101 class for Subarus.  That wasn't the point. 

[laegion]

4 hours ago, idosubaru said:

No I didn't say that.  The gasket matches the bore of the cylinder.  Don't take what I said as a design engineering 101 class for Subarus.  That wasn't the point. 

I assume you're saying that the Ej22 phase II head is similar to the EJ251 then since they are both sohc? I thought the issue with the ej251 head gaskets was the head gasket design/material? 

[idosubaru]

14 hours ago, laegion said:

I assume you're saying that the Ej22 phase II head is similar to the EJ251 then since they are both sohc? I thought the issue with the ej251 head gaskets was the head gasket design/material? 

Yes Sir. Sorry I didn’t mean to suggest they’re exactly the same. They have the same valves and springs part numbers. And sitting them side by side it looks like they took the EJ25 head casting molds and reduced the exhaust ports to one instead of 2. But it was just an illustration that the Phase I and II EJ22s are vastly different. I didn’t mean much more than that by that comment.

1. Phase II EJ22s have headgasket issues 

2. we know the best repair approach. 

Why it happens isn’t a discussion I like to enter online. Practically we know what to do as shown in #1 and #2 above    So why doesn’t matter much  

Subaru tweaked the headgasket designs to mitigate the issue, so that’s often assumed as the root cause. that’s correlation, not causation. Just because Subaru changed the head gasket design doesn’t mean that’s the root cause. Indeed it didn’t entirely solve it - they’re still more prone to head gasket failures at high mileages than other engines, so it’s a little short sighted to single them out as 100% the only causative factor.

Subaru would choose the easiest and cheapest way to mitigate. If it’s engine characteristics causing it, they’re not going redesign the block to replace everyone’s engines when a headgasket retooling can accomplish 90% of the intended result.

But again that’s just an example, it might be wrong or it entirely correct, but I wouldn’t buy the frequent commentary that it’s 100% head gaskets to blame. I feel like it’s more likely unforeseen engine characteristics lead to issues and redesigning the gaskets did a great job mitigating that. They ended up with better gasket tech - but the engine design forced it to happen and it’s still not as good as first Gen EJ22s 

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Unfortunately there is no updated gasket for the EJ222. Unlike the 2.5 where you can just buy the turbo gasket. For the EJ222 you have to buy like a cometic gasket, etc. 

As I said I really don't like that engine - seen way too many of them with bad rings. The piston re-design is to blame. And not being able to get a Subaru turbo MLS gasket for it..... it's an avoid for me. 

GD

 

[idosubaru]

15 hours ago, laegion said:

I assume you're saying that the Ej22 phase II head is similar to the EJ251 then since they are both sohc? I thought the issue with the ej251 head gaskets was the head gasket design/material? 

Yes Sir. Sorry I didn’t mean to suggest they’re exactly the same. They have the same valves and springs part numbers. And sitting them side by side it looks like they took the EJ25 head casting molds and reduced the exhaust ports to one instead of 2. But it was just an illustration that the Phase I and II EJ22s are vastly different. I didn’t mean much more than that by that comment.

1. Phase II EJ22s have headgasket issues 

2. we know the best repair approach. 

Why it happens isn’t a discussion I like to enter online. Practically we know what to do as shown in #1 and #2 above    So why doesn’t matter much  

Subaru tweaked the headgasket designs to mitigate the issue, so that’s often assumed as the root cause. that’s correlation, not causation. Just because Subaru changed the head gasket design doesn’t mean that’s the root cause. Indeed it didn’t entirely solve it - they’re still more prone to head gasket failures at high mileages than other engines, so it’s a little short sighted to single them out as 100% the only causative factor.

Subaru would choose the easiest and cheapest way to mitigate. If it’s engine characteristics causing it, they’re not going redesign the block to replace everyone’s engines when a headgasket retooling can accomplish 90% of the intended result.

But again that’s just an example, it might be wrong, but the frequent commentary that it’s 100% head gaskets to blame might be missing something too. Seems likely some unforeseen engine characteristics lead to issues, and redesigning the gaskets did a great job mitigating that. They ended up with better gasket tech - but the engine design forced it to happen and it’s still not as good as first Gen EJ22s 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by idosubaru

[laegion]

14 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Unfortunately there is no updated gasket for the EJ222. Unlike the 2.5 where you can just buy the turbo gasket. For the EJ222 you have to buy like a cometic gasket, etc. 

As I said I really don't like that engine - seen way too many of them with bad rings. The piston re-design is to blame. And not being able to get a Subaru turbo MLS gasket for it..... it's an avoid for me. 

GD

 

Strange, when I look the head gasket up on parts.subaru.com for the phase II EJ22 it shows this gasket: 

 

but the ones I used in my phase I looked like this: 

 

Maybe I have bad info; but I believed the issue was mainly due to using a composite gasket that deteriorated when coolant and oil sat on the gasket, and that an mls gasket like the one shown above was the fix for that issue?

[GeneralDisorder]

The issue with composite gaskets is they are too thick for the quench that Subaru needed to meet modern emissions. 

The image for the EJ222 gasket may be incorrect. AFAIK they look just like the 633 gasket used on the EJ251/EJ253, etc which is a single layer shim (SLS) gasket and has problems with the coating delaminating which causes oil leaks from the bottom of the head. 

GD

[laegion]

2 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

The issue with composite gaskets is they are too thick for the quench that Subaru needed to meet modern emissions. 

The image for the EJ222 gasket may be incorrect. AFAIK they look just like the 633 gasket used on the EJ251/EJ253, etc which is a single layer shim (SLS) gasket and has problems with the coating delaminating which causes oil leaks from the bottom of the head. 

GD

Yeah; the last part I remember seeing about the ej251. I was surprised to see that gasket pictured for the ej222; but usually that site's images are correct...I'm not going to order one just to find out though. lol. Curious though...