1st or 2nd gen Legacy for $5000?

[Roadtriplegacy]

I'm looking to get a manual car for <$5000 for a 3000+ mile road trip and I like the 1st and 2nd gen Legacy. I'm looking to get a comparison between the two and which one would be better for this purpose, in Northern CA so luckily no rust.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

[laegion]

I've never driven a 1st gen '90-'94 Legacy, but from what I understand they are extremely similar mechanically to the 2nd Gen '95-'99 Legacy, Body and interior wise there are pretty big changes between the two. I've owned a '95 Legacy for 7 years now and I have to say that I really like the car. It's simple and light and easy to work on. It doesn't have a lot of power but the low weight helps to make up for that. 

It might help if you give an idea of what kind of roads/terrian and weather you're planning on seeing on your trip.

One thing that comes to mind is that 2nd gen legacies are OBDII, which can be more convenient when it comes to diagnostics.

If you're going for a manual you will probably see a lot of cars with the 2.2l EJ22, stay away from the Phase II EJ22 engine, it's not as reliable. I believe '98 was the first year for the Phase II, or maybe produced in '98 for the '99 model year. Someone will know the exact year.

Also, be aware of the EJ25D, from '96-'99 here in the U.S. It can be a good engine but only if the headgaskets have been changed by someone who knew what they were doing. Although this one is less common to see paired with a Manual except in a few models or if someone did a swap.

I'm sure there are others who will comment with much more info about the differences between the two generations that I can.

I don't know what used car prices for these models are like in your area, but I know up here in the PNW one can find a very nice 90's Legacy for $5k. I would watch out for anything with too low of miles though because any car that's sat around that much could have issues just from not being run or driven regularly; but it depends on how it was stored.

Good Luck with your search! It sounds like you're going to have quite an adventure.

If you have any specific questions about the 2nd Gen Legacy, I may be able to answer those. I've done an engine swap on mine and almost all of my own work on it except welding.

Edited March 24, 2022 by laegion

[laegion]

2 hours ago, Roadtriplegacy said:

I'm looking to get a manual car for <$5000 for a 3000+ mile road trip and I like the 1st and 2nd gen Legacy. I'm looking to get a comparison between the two and which one would be better for this purpose, in Northern CA so luckily no rust.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

Also, I highly recommend cars101.com if you want to compare trim level and model year info on subarus.

[moosens]

First gen rules. 
 

Second gen - more issues than first gen by far.

 

Second gen feels more comfy , but to me is heavier and less nimble. I’ve had manual shift of both gens. Second gen I like the feel of as for the clutch and shifter. 
 

I still have a first gen wagon but it’s an automatic. My FWD five speed was the best. Sold it with I think 351k and it’s still going in the next state over. 

Best of luck with the purchase. 

[heartless]

for me, a 95 model year would be the ideal.. has OBDII for diagnostics, but still relatively simple, and non-interference, so no problems if a belt breaks or jumps time.. just realign, and good to go.
After 96 is going to be interference - meaning valves hit pistons if timing goes out.. which typically means major head work..
there is a bit of a grey area surrounding the 96MY, and when the interference phase II was actually introduced.. so for my money, 95 is the way to go.

[laegion]

4 hours ago, heartless said:

for me, a 95 model year would be the ideal.. has OBDII for diagnostics, but still relatively simple, and non-interference, so no problems if a belt breaks or jumps time.. just realign, and good to go.
After 96 is going to be interference - meaning valves hit pistons if timing goes out.. which typically means major head work..
there is a bit of a grey area surrounding the 96MY, and when the interference phase II was actually introduced.. so for my money, 95 is the way to go.

I agree, the non-interference, dual port exhaust, phase 1 EJ22 is ideal, and in '95 and '96 you could get it in the outback with a manual. Of course the Legacy L always had that option with a manual, but it depends on if the OP is doing any backroads or overlanding style travel...hopefully they specify a bit more.

[Roadtriplegacy]

I'm looking to do as many fun twisty backroads as I can along the way, and my destination is Pikes Peak with a high mountain road so I would like it to handle well. I figure I'll probably have budget left over from the $5000 to put towards handling upgrades, I've heard swap bars, bushings, and new shocks/struts would improve it a ton. 

As for performance I might address the head gaskets before the trip, and head porting might be possible? CA so no turbos unfortunately, but other exterior modifications that can be replaced by oem for the test would work. 

I am mechanically experienced so I'm hoping $5000 will be enough for the car, repairs to get it reliable, and then possibly upgrades if I have enough left over. Interior bed and living arrangement would come before upgrades though.

[Roadtriplegacy]

16 minutes ago, laegion said:

I agree, the non-interference, dual port exhaust, phase 1 EJ22 is ideal, and in '95 and '96 you could get it in the outback with a manual. Of course the Legacy L always had that option with a manual, but it depends on if the OP is doing any backroads or overlanding style travel...hopefully they specify a bit more.

Meant to quote this post, replied in the previous comment.

[laegion]

5 minutes ago, Roadtriplegacy said:

I'm looking to do as many fun twisty backroads as I can along the way, and my destination is Pikes Peak with a high mountain road so I would like it to handle well. I figure I'll probably have budget left over from the $5000 to put towards handling upgrades, I've heard swap bars, bushings, and new shocks/struts would improve it a ton. 

As for performance I might address the head gaskets before the trip, and head porting might be possible? CA so no turbos unfortunately, but other exterior modifications that can be replaced by oem for the test would work. 

I am mechanically experienced so I'm hoping $5000 will be enough for the car, repairs to get it reliable, and then possibly upgrades if I have enough left over. Interior bed and living arrangement would come before upgrades though.

If you're going to be doing suspension upgrades then you can go with any legacy and put Outback struts on it to get the same ride height as an outback. There are also spacing blocks to bring the subframes and some components down lower to keep the angles on the axles ideal; but I've been running my '95 Legacy L wagon with Outback struts for something like 5 years and haven't noticed any significant extra wear. However if you do lift a legacy, I do recommend getting outback rear trailing arm mounts because they re-center the rear wheels which could be necessary if you plan on running any bigger tires.

I highly recommend either going with a Legacy Outback or putting outback struts on a legacy if you're going to be doing that much offroad/backroads. While the stock ride height on the Legacy can get you a lot of places (I took mine over a lot of stuff most wouldn't before lifting it) but it will feel much more confident off-pavement with that extra 2".

Like Heartless said; I very much recommend going with a model that has the EJ22 Phase 1. It's waaaay easier to work on as the spark plugs are on the top of the heads. On the EJ25D that was the only 2.5l available before the '00 model year, has dual overhead cams so you have to contend with the frame rails to get at your spark plugs, and there is just more engine in general in the way with the extra cam, and you still have the same number of valves as the sohc ej22. That coupled with the head gasket failures, even sometimes on new gaskets...makes the EJ22 a clear choice imho. 

Also, the EJ25D wasn't introduced until '97 so it wasn't even an option in the Gen1 Legacy.

[Roadtriplegacy]

1 hour ago, laegion said:

If you're going to be doing suspension upgrades then you can go with any legacy and put Outback struts on it to get the same ride height as an outback. There are also spacing blocks to bring the subframes and some components down lower to keep the angles on the axles ideal; but I've been running my '95 Legacy L wagon with Outback struts for something like 5 years and haven't noticed any significant extra wear. However if you do lift a legacy, I do recommend getting outback rear trailing arm mounts because they re-center the rear wheels which could be necessary if you plan on running any bigger tires.

I highly recommend either going with a Legacy Outback or putting outback struts on a legacy if you're going to be doing that much offroad/backroads. While the stock ride height on the Legacy can get you a lot of places (I took mine over a lot of stuff most wouldn't before lifting it) but it will feel much more confident off-pavement with that extra 2".

Like Heartless said; I very much recommend going with a model that has the EJ22 Phase 1. It's waaaay easier to work on as the spark plugs are on the top of the heads. On the EJ25D that was the only 2.5l available before the '00 model year, has dual overhead cams so you have to contend with the frame rails to get at your spark plugs, and there is just more engine in general in the way with the extra cam, and you still have the same number of valves as the sohc ej22. That coupled with the head gasket failures, even sometimes on new gaskets...makes the EJ22 a clear choice imho. 

Also, the EJ25D wasn't introduced until '97 so it wasn't even an option in the Gen1 Legacy.

Thanks, I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the EJ22, they both have 4 valves and I'm not worried about the 30 hp gain for all the loss in reliability and serviceability. Though offroad capability will be very nice, I'm also looking for road-holding capability and cornering. Would the outback components be preferred for that as well? 

[laegion]

34 minutes ago, Roadtriplegacy said:

Thanks, I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the EJ22, they both have 4 valves and I'm not worried about the 30 hp gain for all the loss in reliability and serviceability. Though offroad capability will be very nice, I'm also looking for road-holding capability and cornering. Would the outback components be preferred for that as well? 

I did notice a little more body roll after going with the outback struts; but hardly worth worrying about. My '95 handles quite well for a mid 90's economy wagon; far better than any SUV. The only time I've had any complaint about the EJ22 horsepower is when fully loaded and ascending a steep hill on the highway. I just downshift to 3rd (mine is an automatic, which in this generation is arguably better offroad) and let it rev a little higher and it makes at a reasonable speed. It won't be making any hill climb records but it does the job.

Edited March 24, 2022 by laegion

[GeneralDisorder]

95 to 98 Brighton or L wagon with the automatic would seem to be the best choice for you. The newer and lower mileage you can find the better. 

Don't worry about the "interference" engines - if you do a timing belt kit with quality Japanese components the potential for a belt to fly off or break is essentially zero if the job is done right. Replace any plastic cam sprockets, and replace the harmonic balancer as well. They are much too old at this point and can't be trusted. Get these parts from the dealer. Use a timing kit from Aisin or piece it together with OEM or Japanese brand components ONLY. Replace the radiator (Denso or Koyo), and get new radiator and heater core hoses from the dealership ONLY. Use the wire clamps or use embossed clamps - cheap clamps will chew up the hoses. Use a dealer or TAMA thermostat ONLY. Replace the PCV valve and any cracked hoses and clean out the ports and nipples and fittings for the PCV system - get these parts from the dealer ONLY..... starting to see a trend here? Subaru parts in the aftermarket are almost always complete $hit. Anything you CAN get from Subaru, you absolutely SHOULD get from Subaru. They currently and for the last 5 years have a HARD ON for parts being marked NLA (No Longer Available) in their system. Anything more than 10 years old is in danger of parts shortages. Heed my warnings on this and what parts you NEED to get from Subaru and you can likely keep the car going another 10 years if you act soon. Won't be long before I'm telling people to avoid these chassis because they are time bombs with no support. 

Change all the other fluids and check the brakes, etc. 

It's not unusual for the power steering pumps to leak and you can get a rebuild kit from the dealer parts department. 

For handling you can use WRX suspension on these cars as well. There are coil-over's that allow ride height adjustment - even slight amounts of lift - while offering much improved handling. 

GD

[idosubaru]

1998 or earlier EJ22 all the way.  Install all new timing components.

If it isn’t high mileage and wasn’t previously mistreated that’s about the easiest, most reliable, inexpensive 100,000 miles you can get.

Id look for one that gives you the best sense of its maintenance history.

If you can do an engine swap then you can buy any 1998 or earlier EJ25 and swap an EJ22 in it - they’re plug and play. That increases your potential cars to look at when shopping.

[Numbchux]

The Japanese economy was booming in the '80s, and crashed in the early-'90s, and that really shows in the cars. The 2nd gens were just reheated 1st gens, as they did not have any money for real devolopment. IMHO, they feel like tin cans, and the interior feels very cheap and poorly made (little things like the gauge clusters being largely front-lit, instead of back lit).

They were forced to spend some money on the ECU and fuel injection system to comply with OBDII for 1996, which makes diagnosing those engines a lot easier. But I still think I'd prefer 1st gen to 2nd.

That said, I MASSIVELY prefer a 3rd gen Legacy (specifically, the Outback based on it. I have 6 of them, 7 including the Baja). I have an '01 Forester (last year of the late '90s generation) with just under 100k miles on it and in phenomenal mechanical condition, it will be sold soon. Getting out of a '99 Outback and into a '00 feels like getting out of a Corolla and into a Lexus LS.

 

 

But the biggest thing. These things are all in the neighborhood of 25 years old. How it was stored/used/cared for will have about 50x more affect on how reliable it will be going forward, than what it was like new, or any generalization any of us can make. $5k is a decent budget, even in this crazy market. Look for a nice clean example that's been loved and maintained. Inspect it thoroughly (or have it inspected), and you'll have years of use to come.

[idosubaru]

6 hours ago, Numbchux said:

The Japanese economy was booming in the '80s, and crashed in the early-'90s, and that really shows in the cars. The 2nd gens were just reheated 1st gens, as they did not have any money for real devolopment. IMHO, they feel like tin cans, and the interior feels very cheap and poorly made (little things like the gauge clusters 

Yeah the Gen 2s look far nicer and less dated so they have much greater appeal to get over their marginally worse reliability than Gen 1 which were real beasts, but that has been lost to time anyway. 

Like you said they are extremely old so time and history and unknown and sitting for lengths of time is a killer. Takes compelling circumstances to choose them over newer ones.  We are tainted by rust too, for non rust areas maybe it could still be a reasonable option? Either way you’re right - it would be wise to include newer stuff when searching, there’s no practical reason to ignore them.

[GeneralDisorder]

Very much agree on the first gen being a much better car than the second gen. Sadly parts availability for the chassis (not the engine itself) is poor and without the OBD-II diagnostics you are asking a lot of a new owner to properly diagnose one. Good choice for the guys like myself that fear nothing as regards fuel injection and diagnostics - difficult for those that can't just buy a diagnostic scan tool for $25 on Amazon. 

The first gen - you can get a plug and play LINK ECU board for it and have a full stand-alone engine management with very little effort - it just blows his budget completely. But it's sooooo choice and make all your sensor and engine diagnostics about a million times easier. 

GD