2013 Outback using oil

[craigmcd]

Hi All, 

My daughter’s 2013 Outback 4 cyl is using oil, and I would like to explain the symptoms and ask for advice. First, this is her third Subaru, so she is very familiar with the car. The mileage is 108,000. She bought it used 7 months ago, and it has a 12 month warranty. There is no smoke, no overheating, no hot warning light, no low water, no obvious oil leaking, but she sometimes faintly smells oil when getting out of the car. 

The oil light comes on, and she checks the oil, which is always low, but not all the way to the low dot. The first few times she did not bother to track it, but after awhile she noticed it happened more frequently. She drove 2000 miles and added about 620ml. The next time the light came on she had driven 1700 miles, and added 470ml. The next time she had driven 637 miles, the level was not to the dot, and she added 470ml. The last time she went 848 miles and had to add 400ml to top it off. Each of these times the low oil light had come on. The last two times, as noted, she added about 1/2 quart or so. She now carries a 5 qt jug and is trying to keep better records.

The car has normal decent power. She can pass quickly at 65 on a level road, and with a bit more effort can pass on a steeper mountain road. When she leaves work she immediately enters the local highway, and has to get up to 60 quickly. The car is cold (Colorado winter) and it does take some time to get up to speed, but improves when it warms up.

The guys where she bought the car have looked at it twice, and asked her to keep the records. The have done a couple little things, like exchanging the PVC. They offer the warranty, and I think want to avoid addressing bigger problems.

Any thoughts or direction I can give her. I have my suspicions, but would really like your input. Thanks, Craig

[idosubaru]

Oil control rings. Use thicker oil and keep topping it off. Or replace the engine or short block.

 harmless if you keep dumping oil in it. Though probabky not long term catalytic converter friendly if you live in an emissions state.  

Oil light on these is more like “the engine is being damaged light” rather than a “low oil light”.

Subaru offered an extended 100k warranty.  call or stop in.  you’re past that by 8,000 miles and maybe a year. They ocassionally go beyond the warranty as a courtesy though buying it recently used probably isn’t the greatest fit for them to cover for a variety of reasons. But it’s Colorado, high volume Subaru world - call or stop in and ask  

This is very common across all manufacturers, though the year ranges impacted vary as to when they rolled out low friction emissions trinket rings the last 15 years. Consumer purchases became the real test bed for emissions/fleet mileage requirements as those demands outstrip the design capability and market to support it. Google “BMW oil consumption”…or whatever manufacturer you want and you’ll see class action lawsuits, extended warranties, complaints of oil usage, etc. 
 

 

[craigmcd]

Thanks for the reply. Quick follow up. I believe this engine calls for 5W-30. When you say thicker oil, what would you suggest?

Second: Can you expand on the "engine is being damaged" light? I have always understood that when the oil light comes on it means low oil pressure or that the oil pump has failed. I believe in our manual it says to pull over immediately and tow it to the nearest dealer (which almost no one does). Audrey tops off the oil and the light goes out.

I appreciate the response. C

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, craigmcd said:

Thanks for the reply. Quick follow up. I believe this engine calls for 5W-30. When you say thicker oil, what would you suggest?

Second: Can you expand on the "engine is being damaged" light? I have always understood that when the oil light comes on it means low oil pressure or that the oil pump has failed. I believe in our manual it says to pull over immediately and tow it to the nearest dealer (which almost no one does). Audrey tops off the oil and the light goes out.

I appreciate the response. C

I thought they called for 0W, maybe that’s a couple years after yours. Use 10w-30, I’d probably try 20w-50 personally. Thicker oil is a wet band aid unless you’re lucky. It won’t hurt but may not help.

Subaru oil is too low when the light comes on. Maybe I’m conflating EJ/FB engines but I thought 2013 FBs were the same.

[GeneralDisorder]

Use 5w40 

The rings were not made to spec on that engine. 

But on the plus side they are low friction and will improve mileage. 

Add oil as needed and don't worry about it. Slight oil consumption is cheaper than the loss of fuel economy from full friction rings. 

Subaru should have increased the capacity and desensitized the low warning. But they didn't. Put oil in it and drive on. 

It will probably need a new catalytic converter earlier than usual.

GD

[el_freddo]

^ none of those things sound economical vs a slightly better fuel economy GD! False economics to me. Spend less on fuel only to spend a pot load more oil to keep it in the sump - then throw a replacement catalytic converter at it down the track at some point.

Being full synthetic oil no doubt, you won’t see any blue smoke as it seems to always burn clean out the exhaust pipe. If you switched to mineral (watch everyone cringe here) you’ll see the effects of the oil rings not doing a proper job. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[laegion]

2 hours ago, el_freddo said:

^ none of those things sound economical vs a slightly better fuel economy GD! False economics to me. Spend less on fuel only to spend a pot load more oil to keep it in the sump - then throw a replacement catalytic converter at it down the track at some point.

Being full synthetic oil no doubt, you won’t see any blue smoke as it seems to always burn clean out the exhaust pipe. If you switched to mineral (watch everyone cringe here) you’ll see the effects of the oil rings not doing a proper job. 

Cheers 

Bennie

I would think that the oil burning cleaner would mean less problems for the cat. Over the 3-5k between oil changes, I'm sure the gas savings adds up to a lot more than a couple quarts of oil. Even the Subaru synthetic.

[Numbchux]

On 4/8/2022 at 8:58 AM, craigmcd said:

Thanks for the reply. Quick follow up. I believe this engine calls for 5W-30. When you say thicker oil, what would you suggest?

Second: Can you expand on the "engine is being damaged" light? I have always understood that when the oil light comes on it means low oil pressure or that the oil pump has failed. I believe in our manual it says to pull over immediately and tow it to the nearest dealer (which almost no one does). Audrey tops off the oil and the light goes out.

I appreciate the response. C

They call for 0W20.

 

That's right in the heart of the oil consumption class action lawsuit that was filed against Subaru. Subaru extended the warranty to 100k in response.

 

There are 2 oil lights. A low oil level light, and a low oil pressure light (the older cars only had pressure, and interestingly the first few years of FB engined Foresters, most Forester owners just drove them until they blew up, whereas Impreza and Leg/OBK owners got the warning light). The level light comes on kind of prematurely, as the engine is usually less than a quart low. But this prevents catastrophic damage.

 

My mom bought her 2012 Impreza with about 20k miles on it, it's over 200k, now. It has a salvage title, so was not eligible for a free engine, so she keeps a quart of oil in the trunk, and a funnel tucked in next to the battery. I just found out this week that she's down to ~750 miles per quart, so I advised her to switch to synthetic 5W30. She has seen a P0420 a couple times, so the cat is probably not happy with the hundred + quarts of oil that has gone through it, 

[Numbchux]

5 hours ago, el_freddo said:

^ none of those things sound economical vs a slightly better fuel economy GD! False economics to me. Spend less on fuel only to spend a pot load more oil to keep it in the sump - then throw a replacement catalytic converter at it down the track at some point.

I just did some quick math (what can I say, slow afternoon at work...). My mom's 2012 Impreza uses a quart of oil about every 750 miles. When I worked at the dealership, we had many customers reporting a loss of 3-5mpg after receiving a new shortblock (with tighter rings). Over 750 miles, with fuel costing $3/gallon, a drop from 35mpg to 32mpg is about $6. Depending on the oil you're using, you could easily come out ahead.

If you're getting 4k miles to a quart, that difference jumps to $32.13. If you can find a quart of oil for $32, you're going something wrong.

 

So yea, it's cheaper to risk a little extra wear on your cat than replace your engine.

[el_freddo]

8 hours ago, laegion said:

I would think that the oil burning cleaner would mean less problems for the cat. Over the 3-5k between oil changes, I'm sure the gas savings adds up to a lot more than a couple quarts of oil. Even the Subaru synthetic.

Yes you are correct. I was just stating that if you were to switch oils you would be able to see where your oil usage is since there’s no leaks etc. 

4 hours ago, Numbchux said:

I just did some quick math (what can I say, slow afternoon at work...). My mom's 2012 Impreza uses a quart of oil about every 750 miles. When I worked at the dealership, we had many customers reporting a loss of 3-5mpg after receiving a new shortblock (with tighter rings). Over 750 miles, with fuel costing $3/gallon, a drop from 35mpg to 32mpg is about $6. Depending on the oil you're using, you could easily come out ahead.

If you're getting 4k miles to a quart, that difference jumps to $32.13. If you can find a quart of oil for $32, you're going something wrong.

 

So yea, it's cheaper to risk a little extra wear on your cat than replace your engine.

Just looked up a quart and it’s double what I thought - the best part of a litre. 

So in your mum’s case she’s using just under a litre of oil for every 750 miles/1200km. That’s the equivalent of an oil change volume burnt between oil changes if you’re doing it every 5k miles/8000km. 

While oil is definitely cheaper than an engine replacement it’s an extra visible cost that would certainly annoy me! Fuel prices fluctuate. Currently a litre of unleaded or diesel is about $AU1.89/L or $US1.41/L which = $US5.33/US gallon. Locally here it peaked at $AU2.20/L for both fuels. If you wanted premium unleaded add a minimum 20c extra per litre!

Now with this fuel cost it’s unusual due to demand post covid and Russia’s war in Ukraine. We’re “normally” bouncing between $AU1.20 to $1.50/L during peak times. 

A bottle of decent oil in 5L (1.32 US gallon) is about $AU50/$US37.87. 

Going by my calculations bouncing between your figures here from your Mum’s Impreza, google for conversions and the phone’s calculator (I should get a pen and paper!): 
- 35mpg = 6L/100km or 14.8km/L 
- 33mpg = 7.19L/100km or 13.9km/L
- 30mpg = 7.94L/100km or 12.7km/L 

So the fuel costs at 750 miles or 1200km look like this with fuel at $AU1.89/L: 

- 35mpg/ 6L/100km = $AU153.24/$US114.35
- 33mpg/ 7.19L/100km = $AU163.16/$US121.76
- 30mpg/ 7.94/100km = $AU178.58/$US133.26

At 1200km/750miles that puts a 2mpg loss at an extra $AU9.92/$US7.40 and 5mpg loss at an extra $25.43/$US18.97!! So yeah the larger loss of mpg well exceeds the cost of a bottle or two of oil over here and makes sense when analysing the financials involved. 

I wonder how those in the states required to pass emissions testing go with the oil consumption, or what the difference is between consuming oil and being hit with the higher mpg in the test results. 

It’s all quite interesting when breaking down the maths involved after all of the above. I’ve aimed to put it into terms that I can understand/compare to while keeping the stats for the majority on this forum. 

Cheers 

Bennie