SRS Light Periodically On '14 Forester

[Daskuppler]

Hello Everyone,

 

I have a 14 Forester 2.5i Premium and recently the SRS light has started coming on.  Along with it, the passenger airbag turns on and off.  It seems to be related to the passenger seat but I'm not entirely certain.  I know nothing about the SRS system so I don't really know where to begin or what sensors are involved.  I have a code reader, which will read SRS codes (if I upgrade the firmware for $100). 

Any suggestions on where to begin?

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[idosubaru]

Read the codes.  I haven’t done one as new as 2014 but older models have a way of flashing the codes via the ABS light. Ground one pin and read the number of flashes. 

Read and post the codes. Guessing isn’t a good idea.

Why do you say it’s related to the passengers seat?

Steering wheel roll connector is most likely - when the light comes on does the horn still work?

[Daskuppler]

2 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

Read the codes.  I haven’t done one as new as 2014 but older models have a way of flashing the codes via the ABS light. Ground one pin and read the number of flashes. 

Read and post the codes. Guessing isn’t a good idea.

Why do you say it’s related to the passengers seat?

Steering wheel roll connector is most likely - when the light comes on does the horn still work?

I've not checked the horn, next time the light is on I'll check. 

 

As for my assumption that it is related to the passenger seat, when the light is on, the passenger airbag turns off, whether or not a passenger is present.  It only seems to occur when a passenger is in the seat as well.  I'll work on getting the code and post it here when I have it.

[Daskuppler]

The stored Code is: B1650 Occupant Detection System Malfunction.

There were also several ABS codes, but I think they may be left over from the alignment that was done not too long ago.  I cleared them and will check and see if they come back after driving for a little while.

[idosubaru]

Nice hit you were able to read them!

I haven’t seen any ABS or SRS codes on 2010+ Subarus except a couple wrecks I’ve rebuilt but that doesn’t count. So I’m not familiar. 

The car didn’t get rain or a spill or swimmers sitting in it like a recent previous poster did it?  Their lights came on and went out with some copious drying. The new seats loaded with AC, sensors, bidets, and heaters and aren’t as forgiving of getting wet as older seats. Lol

 Next: Recalls or TSBs.

Id call Subaru or check online and ask if there’s any related recalls or TSBs. I found a related TSB below, probably better to search for recalls using your VIN.

Here’s the TSB. Subaru sees this enough or otherwise found this update necessary some of these tests can be done with a basic multimeter:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10138780-9999.pdf

[Daskuppler]

25 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

Nice hit you were able to read them!

I haven’t seen any ABS or SRS codes on 2010+ Subarus except a couple wrecks I’ve rebuilt but that doesn’t count. So I’m not familiar. 

The car didn’t get rain or a spill or swimmers sitting in it like a recent previous poster did it?  Their lights came on and went out with some copious drying. The new seats loaded with AC, sensors, bidets, and heaters and aren’t as forgiving of getting wet as older seats. Lol

 Next: Recalls or TSBs.

Id call Subaru or check online and ask if there’s any related recalls or TSBs. I found a related TSB below, probably better to search for recalls using your VIN.

Here’s the TSB. Subaru sees this enough or otherwise found this update necessary some of these tests can be done with a basic multimeter:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10138780-9999.pdf

Thank you for the TSB, I'll look into it tomorrow.

No major water on the seat.  Maybe a little bit of moisture from small spills, but no drenching and no water under the seat.  I hate all of the fancy bits in the cars anymore.  The electric seats are nice, but I miss the days of using the key to turn the passenger airbag off haha

[Daskuppler]

I'm going to revive this thread now that my car is back from the dealership with a new block.

Has anyone replaced the seat before?  Is it hard?  Do you need special tools to deal with the airbag?  Any idea what part number I need for this?

 

Cheers

[GeneralDisorder]

You need to follow the tests outlined in the service bulletin - have you done the ohm test on the rear harness? 

GD

[Daskuppler]

11 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

You need to follow the tests outlined in the service bulletin - have you done the ohm test on the rear harness? 

GD

I have not, the dealership.looked at it while they were working on the engine and said it needed to be replaced and that it would be almost $2000.  I'll go through the TSB today.

[Daskuppler]

13 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

You need to follow the tests outlined in the service bulletin - have you done the ohm test on the rear harness? 

GD

I don't have the test harness or the SSMIII or SSM4. Can you troubleshoot this without that? I have code B1650 and the SRS light comes on intermittently.

The seat has never been wet, apart from upholstery cleaning.

All connectors are tight and all of the wires I can see are in good shape.

[idosubaru]

7 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

I have not, the dealership.looked at it while they were working on the engine and said it needed to be replaced and that it would be almost $2000.  I'll go through the TSB today.

It's my understanding they replace the seat bottom, or replace something in the seat bottom.  So swapping in a lower seat cushion is all you need.  Which means you can grab a lower seat cushion off of a seat with blown airbags and install it (which I've done before). 

The recall is for 2015-2018 Foresters with heated seats (i think) but surely yours is probably the same issue, the seats and seat air bags are all interchangeable 2014-2018 so they're very similar.  I've rebuilt these before and worked on a couple. 

The seats are super crazy easy to replace or swap the lower cushion.  

1. Unbolt each 14mm (or 12) bolt - two on the front rails and two on the rear.  Pop off the plastic covers to see the ones in the rear. 

2. Lean seat back and disconnect wiring to remove the entire seat

3. Remove plastic covers and theres 3 12 or 14 mm bolts on each side holding the top and bottom seat cushions together.   Remove those 3 bolts on each side, install another lower cushion and install in reverse. 

It's very easy and does not take long at all.

Of course diagnosing it would be smart but this issue is common, dealers usually have the parts in stock to do it around here. 

[Daskuppler]

2 hours ago, idosubaru said:

It's my understanding they replace the seat bottom, or replace something in the seat bottom.  So swapping in a lower seat cushion is all you need.  Which means you can grab a lower seat cushion off of a seat with blown airbags and install it (which I've done before). 

The recall is for 2015-2018 Foresters with heated seats (i think) but surely yours is probably the same issue, the seats and seat air bags are all interchangeable 2014-2018 so they're very similar.  I've rebuilt these before and worked on a couple. 

The seats are super crazy easy to replace or swap the lower cushion.  

1. Unbolt each 14mm (or 12) bolt - two on the front rails and two on the rear.  Pop off the plastic covers to see the ones in the rear. 

2. Lean seat back and disconnect wiring to remove the entire seat

3. Remove plastic covers and theres 3 12 or 14 mm bolts on each side holding the top and bottom seat cushions together.   Remove those 3 bolts on each side, install another lower cushion and install in reverse. 

It's very easy and does not take long at all.

Of course diagnosing it would be smart but this issue is common, dealers usually have the parts in stock to do it around here. 

When you  buy the seat cushion, I presume it comes with the occupant detection mat already installed.  Does this come with the airbags as well, or can they be moved over from the old seat to save some money?

[heartless]

5 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

When you  buy the seat cushion, I presume it comes with the occupant detection mat already installed.  Does this come with the airbags as well, or can they be moved over from the old seat to save some money?

the air bags are in the sides of the back rest, not the bottom part you sit on.

[Daskuppler]

8 hours ago, heartless said:

the air bags are in the sides of the back rest, not the bottom part you sit on.

That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.

[idosubaru]

15 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

When you  buy the seat cushion, I presume it comes with the occupant detection mat already installed.  Does this come with the airbags as well, or can they be moved over from the old seat to save some money?

Summary: Buy a lower cushion the color you want and with or without heated seats from a 2014-2018 Forester and you fixed the occupant detection issue. At least - assuming the used seats doesn't have the issue. 

1. If you can - find a 2017-2018 model that's already had it repaired.  You can search if recalls are done online using the VIN if you can find the VIN if it's already been done or not. 
2. Or buy a 2014-2016 since they're not listed on the recall and likely less prone to issues. 

The bottom seat is fully plug and play - it bolts in and out, the detection system, heating elements, electronics, wiring, are all in place within the seat. The bottom doesn't have airbags.  No other parts needed.   The air bags are in the top portion of the seat you lean back against, so that's why this is done, to retain the airbags:

18 hours ago, idosubaru said:

I

3. Remove plastic covers and theres 3 12 or 14 mm bolts on each side holding the top and bottom seat cushions together.   Remove those 3 bolts on each side, install another lower cushion and install in reverse. 

 

The upper portion is practically worthless if the airbag goes of so the lower seats are still good in wrecked vehicles and not in high demand.

*Remember this all assumes the issue is in the seat.  I think they replace the "rear harness" or something like that, but I'm not sure.  Does this mean the seat harness or does this mean the wiring that plugs into the seat harness?  I'd check that before proceeding.  Subaru has a TSB for it -you can skim it and see if there's any useful information in there.  I've swapped 2014-2018 lower forester seats - they're all plug and play interchangeable, so whatever that TSB says should be useful for your 2014 even though it's not indicated in the recall. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by idosubaru

[Daskuppler]

The dealership told me it was the occupant detection sensor and that they best they could do on the part was $690.

is it possible to just short the terminals so it always thinks there is a passenger?  I don't care if it goes off when no one is in the seat, I just want it to go off but don't want to spend $700 if I don't have too.  The junkyards are pretty void of these cars around here.

[brus brother]

FIRST, I like Idosubaru's suggestion to call SOA directly and inquire about TSB and repair. I know that issues like seat belts actually have a lifetime warranty and if you mention that, they might lean towards a "good will" gesture. That particular warranty does exclude electrical components... hmmm. What's the worse case? They say no?

Have you seen this you tube video on how to get the sensor itself repaired? LINK

Updated direct link with $100 price tag mentions B1650 code LINK

Fault codes: B1650        29 ODS Failure    Occupant Classification System Malfunction

BTW, this company seems to provide various other computer related reset services. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by brus brother

[Daskuppler]

10 hours ago, brus brother said:

FIRST, I like Idosubaru's suggestion to call SOA directly and inquire about TSB and repair. I know that issues like seat belts actually have a lifetime warranty and if you mention that, they might lean towards a "good will" gesture. That particular warranty does exclude electrical components... hmmm. What's the worse case? They say no?

Have you seen this you tube video on how to get the sensor itself repaired? LINK

Updated direct link with $100 price tag mentions B1650 code LINK

Fault codes: B1650        29 ODS Failure    Occupant Classification System Malfunction

BTW, this company seems to provide various other computer related reset services. 

I'll look into the linked company above.

 

As for dealing with SOA, this car has a rather extensive history at the dealership and on SOA's plate.  They have been downright refusing to help in any way whatsoever.  I have called multiple times, been to two different dealerships, had TWO engine blocks fail within 300 miles of install and oil consumption.  We got the finger on the oil consumption during the test and after when it was burning 1qt every 300 miles.  After getting two bad blocks, Subaru refused to provide any information on batch numbers, manufacture dates, etc.  They simply shipped one from a different warehouse and told us to pound sand.  I've spoken with the dealership manager and service manager where the work was done and we purchased the car.  I was able to get a whopping $50ish off the seat bottom through the dealership and SOA couldn't care less.  Not impressed.  When this whole series of events started, I thought GeneralDisorder was pessimistic and should work on vehicles other than Subarus.  At this time, I think he was being kind and generous with his "compliments" to Subaru.

 

Sorry for the rant, it's been a bad 3 months with the car.

[idosubaru]

Buy a used lower cushion and swap it out.  I have one but it’s not worth shipping or rendering my parts car without a seat.

Good call - you should be able to mimmick the sensor to always be “on” rather than “off”. I don’t know the functioning of the sensor to say how to do it though. But it’s probably a simple toggle mechanism or limit switch somewhere just on/off. there’s no circuits, ICs, or code embedded in the seat.  This sounds like a great solution  

Im not sure why this feature exists, maybe it’s so the bag doesn’t go off with a short person or pet in the seat who might get injured worse by the bag? But that doesn’t seem likely since it doesn’t take much to trip it and a pet can’t be restrained by seat belts.

Or maybe it’s to avoid the passengers side airbag blowing? I just rebuilt a totaled 2017 ans every single bag in the car went off except the passengers side airbag. Even the drivers wheel and passengers side curtain and passengers seat went off but not the passengers bag. 

That replacement block scenario is bizarre. I don’t know why that’s been so complicated but it seems like it’s gotta be something beyond Subaru Corp going on behind the scenes. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by idosubaru

[Daskuppler]

1 minute ago, idosubaru said:

Buy a used lower cushion and swap it out.  I have one but it’s not worth shipping or rendering my parts car without a seat.

Good call - you should be able to mimmick the sensor to always be “on” rather than “off”. I don’t know the functioning of the sensor to say how to do it though. But it’s probably a simple toggle mechanism or limit switch somewhere just on/off. there’s no circuits, ICs, or code embedded in the seat.  This sounds like a great solution  

Im not sure why this feature exists, maybe it’s so the bag doesn’t go off with a short person or pet in the seat who might get injured worse by the bag? But that doesn’t seem likely since it doesn’t take much to trip it and a pet can’t be restrained by seat belts.

That replacement block scenario is bizarre. I don’t know why that’s been so complicated but it seems like it’s gotta be something beyond Subaru Corp going on behind the scenes. 

I did a little research in the occupant detection sensor at it doesn't look like it's as simple as a short or not in the sensor.  It looks like it operates of of capacitance and the presence of a human more than just weight alone.  Until I can confirm how it really works, I'm hesitant to just short the circuit...I would hate to blow the ECU or deploy the airbags or something stupid.

SOA was unwilling to divulge any information but I suspect the bearing manufacturer had a bad batch since the failure was always due to a bad bearing.  Subaru did shut down any shipments on engines from the first warehouse where the first two blocks came from. Hopefully no one else falls victim to it.

[idosubaru]

48 minutes ago, Daskuppler said:

I did a little research in the occupant detection sensor at it doesn't look like it's as simple as a short or not in the sensor.  It looks like it operates of of capacitance and the presence of a human more than just weight alone.  Until I can confirm how it really works, I'm hesitant to just short the circuit...I would hate to blow the ECU or deploy the airbags or something stupid.

SOA was unwilling to divulge any information but I suspect the bearing manufacturer had a bad batch since the failure was always due to a bad bearing.  Subaru did shut down any shipments on engines from the first warehouse where the first two blocks came from. Hopefully no one else falls victim to it.

interesting feedback.

someone posted earlier about repairing the sensor does that look doable?

Do the testing instructions give clues to how to bypass it? GD mentioned ohms…

As already stated removing the entire seat is 4 bolts and disconnect the plugs. They drive fine without the seat, ive driven subarus without any front seats at all LOL. So you could remove the passengers seat for testing purposes and still use the vehicle.

A second person might help keep the lower metal tabs of the seat from scratching anything inside or outside. They are awkward to wiggle out. But I’ve done gobs by myself and it only takes a few minutes. 

[Daskuppler]

1 hour ago, idosubaru said:

interesting feedback.

someone posted earlier about repairing the sensor does that look doable?

Do the testing instructions give clues to how to bypass it? GD mentioned ohms…

As already stated removing the entire seat is 4 bolts and disconnect the plugs. They drive fine without the seat, ive driven subarus without any front seats at all LOL. So you could remove the passengers seat for testing purposes and still use the vehicle.

A second person might help keep the lower metal tabs of the seat from scratching anything inside or outside. They are awkward to wiggle out. But I’ve done gobs by myself and it only takes a few minutes. 

I've not looked into the resource Brus Brother provided.  I'll take a look at it first chance I get and see.  I guess the worst that happens is I ruin a broken sensor haha.

[idosubaru]

12 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

I've not looked into the resource Brus Brother provided.  I'll take a look at it first chance I get and see.  I guess the worst that happens is I ruin a broken sensor haha.

Hmm there is that. We have all be there before! not wanting to make it worse or ruin a chance of it being flaky enough to work right again. 

[Daskuppler]

On 10/3/2022 at 9:08 PM, brus brother said:

FIRST, I like Idosubaru's suggestion to call SOA directly and inquire about TSB and repair. I know that issues like seat belts actually have a lifetime warranty and if you mention that, they might lean towards a "good will" gesture. That particular warranty does exclude electrical components... hmmm. What's the worse case? They say no?

Have you seen this you tube video on how to get the sensor itself repaired? LINK

Updated direct link with $100 price tag mentions B1650 code LINK

Fault codes: B1650        29 ODS Failure    Occupant Classification System Malfunction

BTW, this company seems to provide various other computer related reset services. 

Looks like this service is only available to reset the module if the vehicle was in a crash, not for a bad sensor.

[Daskuppler]

Looks like I pay have located a bypass for this system.

at about 10 minutes into the video, the presenter shows his drawing and sets it up with success at the end.  I do not have the resistors so I will have to find some and give this a try.  I ordered a bunch of resistors from Amazon, they will be here Tuesday so I'll give it a shot.  The logic int he video is sound though.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Daskuppler