Oil Consumption '14 Forester (I know the Usual Problems, Not Looking for an Explanation)

[Daskuppler]

Hello Everyone,

 

I have a 14 Forester which is affected by the oil consumption TSB/Recall (if you can call it that).  I had the local dealership test it for about 30,000 miles ago and they said it didn't burn a drop of oil; yet on every oil change I need a quart of oil to make it to a 5k interval and have since 25k on the vehicle.  I argued with the dealership for a while and that went nowhere.  I am now burning 1qt every 750 miles.  My last road trip took 5qts of oil just to get home.  Is there anything that can be done to slow the consumption?  I have tried pretty much every brand of oil in regular and high mileage, ow-20, 0w-40, 5w-30, and topping off with 10w-30.  Nothing helps, not even Subaru's oil which "didn't burn anything" when they performed their test.  Castrol is worse, but nothing really improved the situation.

 

The car is now over 100k and I am rather dissapointed in the car.  M family loves Subaru and this won't really change anything, but this car has had every issue but the CVT issues.  Does anyone by chance have a contact with SOA that may be willing to help cover the cost of a replacement engine? Or labor, or something?  The car is still new by Subaru standards but burns oil like it has 300k on it.  Any suggestions?  Now is definitely not the market to buy another car.

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[1 Lucky Texan]

manufacturers consider something like a quart in 900-1200-- miles a problem. A qt in 3000-5000 would not meet warranty-levels of concern I don't think.

you might try a new PCV valve. You might send a used oil sample to Blackstone. maybe a leaky injector is diluting the oil or ?????

but 750, yeh, you could call SOA,  explain to a regional rep that you already documented a concern in the past, and now experience a very high level of usage. Maybe you can get another test done but, at this age, who knows what Mother Subie will do??? I'd prepare myself for disappointment.

Edited June 7, 2022 by 1 Lucky Texan

[GeneralDisorder]

I am continually amazed at (and derive exceptional levels of profit from) Name Branditis as I've come to call it.

Lets get this straight:

1. Subaru is a Corporation. Not a person except in the eyes of the law where it is a special person which has no body to imprison nor soul to save as the saying goes. Corporations are ONLY interested in profit. 

2. Profit is nowhere to be seen in fixing your 2014 Forester - especially if people such as yourself continue to "love" a corporation (a statement I would consider profoundly uneducated in the least) despite being handed a bag of $hit and being told to suck it. 

I think you should re-evaluate your brand alignment. In fact I would suggest you make every attempt to disregard brand entirely and judge each product on it's individual merits and known historic statistics with regard to reliability and cost of ownership. 

Honestly anything made in the FB era is hot garbage and that includes the CVT's, etc. I would look at Toyota who is eating Subaru's lunch in pretty much every category. 

GD

[el_freddo]

And how long until Toyota loyalists should go suck a bag of $hit?? 

Toyotas are build well like many Japanese brands are, but they can be considerably more expensive (over here) with the “Toyota tax”, even second hand they’re above the rest in used car prices compared to their competitors vehicles in the same category. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[GeneralDisorder]

It's not about being a loyalist to any brand. And Toyota's hold their value in the US as well - at least some of them anyway. Avalon's are cheap because no one looks at them. Camry's and 4-Runner's are expensive. 

Like I said though - do you research. Every make has problem children. Every model has problem years. Don't buy the first generation of anything. Stick with older stuff that has been proven. 

GD

Edited June 19, 2022 by GeneralDisorder

[Numbchux]

Maybe try a different dealership. Also, spend as much time on the freeway as possible during the consumption test.

I know when I worked at the dealership, we would have claims denied (by Subaru), and then a few days later, SOA customer service would call us and have us Goodwill a repair. So a call to them would certainly be an option. Quick google search turns up 1 (800) 782-2783

[Daskuppler]

On 6/7/2022 at 9:13 AM, 1 Lucky Texan said:

manufacturers consider something like a quart in 900-1200-- miles a problem. A qt in 3000-5000 would not meet warranty-levels of concern I don't think.

you might try a new PCV valve. You might send a used oil sample to Blackstone. maybe a leaky injector is diluting the oil or ?????

but 750, yeh, you could call SOA,  explain to a regional rep that you already documented a concern in the past, and now experience a very high level of usage. Maybe you can get another test done but, at this age, who knows what Mother Subie will do??? I'd prepare myself for disappointment.

I didn't even think about the oil analysis.  I'll get one run.  I'll check the PCV valve as well, they are cheap replacement.  I don't expect much from Subaru, but it's worth a shot. 

 

I just ordered the Blackstone analysis kit, I'll post the results here when I get them back.  It's at the end of the oil change interval so it's good timing.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Daskuppler

[Daskuppler]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:39 PM, GeneralDisorder said:

I am continually amazed at (and derive exceptional levels of profit from) Name Branditis as I've come to call it.

Lets get this straight:

1. Subaru is a Corporation. Not a person except in the eyes of the law where it is a special person which has no body to imprison nor soul to save as the saying goes. Corporations are ONLY interested in profit. 

2. Profit is nowhere to be seen in fixing your 2014 Forester - especially if people such as yourself continue to "love" a corporation (a statement I would consider profoundly uneducated in the least) despite being handed a bag of $hit and being told to suck it. 

I think you should re-evaluate your brand alignment. In fact I would suggest you make every attempt to disregard brand entirely and judge each product on it's individual merits and known historic statistics with regard to reliability and cost of ownership. 

Honestly anything made in the FB era is hot garbage and that includes the CVT's, etc. I would look at Toyota who is eating Subaru's lunch in pretty much every category. 

GD

Have you met a Toyota driver?  I'll pass.  They are overpriced, overrated, and most people who drive them are a$$holes.  My statement is in regards to the fact that Subaru has a history of making quality vehicles.  All manufacturers make lemons.  I get your point, this was not Subaru's best run of vehicles and quality has suffered.  However, this did absolutely nothing to address the issue at hand. 

[idosubaru]

If you don’t agree with their oil consumption test results then ask them nicely to do it in a way that you can verify the fill and final check with them. Because it never happens when you change it. Stand outside the bay door, watch through a window, or better yet go to another dealer.

How many stars do they have on Google reviews, Social media, etc?

Subaru does warranty things out of warranty sometimes. Though if you weren’t able to get it right for 100k then I doubt you’ll have success this time?

I have plenty of “bad dealer stories” and yet I also know enough that I could get a proper test done and the current dealer I use would work with me. Or I know a couple others I could go to if needed  

Its a little surprising you’re this well versed in cars/subarus but couldn’t figure it out before 100,000 miles.

It makes me think where you live is full of argumentative litigious Ahats and the dealer has to protect themselves (the outskirts of the sorry a$$ city of Baltimore has these types of issues), you’re abrasive and hard to work with, or that dealer is so bad you should have never went there to begin with. 

You’re accusing the dealer of lying - work more closely with them, be nicer, or go somewhere else. Expecting more good results from a place you accuse of lying is absurd. 

[GeneralDisorder]

On 6/9/2022 at 3:09 PM, Daskuppler said:

Have you met a Toyota driver?  I'll pass.  They are overpriced, overrated, and most people who drive them are a$$holes.  My statement is in regards to the fact that Subaru has a history of making quality vehicles.  All manufacturers make lemons.  I get your point, this was not Subaru's best run of vehicles and quality has suffered.  However, this did absolutely nothing to address the issue at hand. 

You don't seem to get my point at all. Your perception of a "Toyota Driver" is irrelevant. It has no factual basis in reality, and is not a comment on the suitability of the product, it's quality, or reliability. It's entirely non-sequitur. This type of thinking will make you poorer. Are you ok with that? 

You are aware that Toyota owns a controlling interest in Subaru right? You pretty much already are the guy in the Toyota that you think is an A$$hole..... Trust me everyone that drives anything but a Japanese car sees you exactly the same as a Toyota, Mazda, or Infinity driver. 

While each year and model does need to be judged somewhat on it's individual merits, the whole Subaru product lineup has gone in the trash starting gradually in about 2005 and accelerating to terminal velocity after about 2010. The FA/FB engines are junk with worse problems than the EJ's, and the CVT transmission problems have cost of ownership far in excess of their fuel economy benefits over the life of the product ($8,000 transmission replacement buys a lot of fuel). 

And now Subaru has dropped the STI - about the only thing they had that was unique - and Toyota is eating their lunch with the Corolla GR. 

Once all the manufacturers go near fully EV Subaru will be left in the dustbin of history. Gone is the boxer engine, gone is the symmetrical AWD (all EV's with wheel motors already have this), and now they are going to lose what little credibility they had left with the long heritage of the STI and it's huge following. Honestly I think Toyota means to turn them into a puppet brand where they just badge engineer a Toyota as a Subaru and milk any remaining brand loyalty out of the husk before they toss it. 

GD

Edited June 19, 2022 by GeneralDisorder

[el_freddo]

2005… about the time GM got their grip on the company. Coincidence? 

I dunno about this huge push for EVs - over here certainly none of our electricity network grid is even close to ready for mass uptake of that type of transport! 

Time will tell what happens, it’s a balls up atm and with the cost of living going through the roof the chance of ppl moving over to EVs is slim. I know I’m out of the running for one, not that it would meet my needs other than commuting to work and back again. And don’t believe the “zero emissions” marketing or EVs! Out of sight, out of mind. Coal fired power stations will be what’s powering the EV movement while solar, wind and tidal infrastructure play catch up. 

Interesting times ahead. This work should have started 20 years ago! 

My 5c for off topic chat! 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Daskuppler]

Update to this fiasco.

 

Mother Subaru obviously said no, no surprise there. 

I was following my wife driving the car today and could visibly see the stumble in the engine as it lagged, then there was a puff of black smoke from the tailpipe.  Since this is not the time to buy a new vehicle, where is a good place to buy a used engine? Are these worth rebuilding? Are there any non turbo performance options for an easy engine swap?

[GeneralDisorder]

Used engines are a huge gamble for those years. They all had bad rings so unless you can verify from the VIN that the engine block was replaced under the oil consumption campaign..... not worth the gamble. 

Honestly a new short block from Subaru is only about $1800 retail. Best option by far. Do a head gasket job and swap in a new block. Typical cost is about $6500. 

Rebuilding is WAY not economically viable given the costs of labor. And there are zero performance options. Not a thing for NA powered Subaru's. Wouldn't be a good idea if there were - glass transmission and all.

And then you have to consider what happens when the CVT goes out. Just did one on a 13 Outback. 134k - total catastrophic failure. Wouldn't move forward or back. Replacement cost about $7500 with a Subaru reman. 

GD

Edited June 19, 2022 by GeneralDisorder

[GeneralDisorder]

F

Edited June 19, 2022 by GeneralDisorder

[Daskuppler]

38 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Used engines are a huge gamble for those years. They all had bad rings so unless you can verify from the VIN that the engine block was replaced under the oil consumption campaign..... not worth the gamble. 

Honestly a new short block from Subaru is only about $1800 retail. Best option by far. Do a head gasket job and swap in a new block. Typical cost is about $6500. 

Rebuilding is WAY not economically viable given the costs of labor. And there are zero performance options. Not a thing for NA powered Subaru's. Wouldn't be a good idea if there were - glass transmission and all.

And then you have to consider what happens when the CVT goes out. Just did one on a 13 Outback. 134k - total catastrophic failure. Wouldn't move forward or back. Replacement cost about $7500 with a Subaru reman. 

GD

Thanks for the input.  I've done heads on the older blocks (early 2000's) are these much different?  Or should this be done by a shop due to required tools and such?  I can't imagine much has changed. 

I just looked up the part on Subaru parts, the short blocks are now $2255 plus $100 shipping and handling.

[GeneralDisorder]

Yeah everything has been increasing in price. 

Biggest difference is these engines rely heavily on RTV sealant. Parts of the head gasket require it, the entire timing chain cover system requires it, etc. It is labor intensive to clean all the old sealant off and it must be applied correctly - if it's not done properly on the HG's you will get oil in the radiator and milkshake in the oil. 

The early FB engines including your '14 Forester also had some unfortunate engineering issues with the machining of the front timing cover. We have had several occasions where we have had to get shim kits and re-shim the cam sensors after doing HG's on these early engines after they exhibit stalling, idling problems, misfiring, etc and start throwing bunch of codes after we take them apart and put them back together:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2014/SB-10052498-5734.pdf

Starting to see why we don't like this junk? 

GD

[Daskuppler]

3 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Yeah everything has been increasing in price. 

Biggest difference is these engines rely heavily on RTV sealant. Parts of the head gasket require it, the entire timing chain cover system requires it, etc. It is labor intensive to clean all the old sealant off and it must be applied correctly - if it's not done properly on the HG's you will get oil in the radiator and milkshake in the oil. 

The early FB engines including your '14 Forester also had some unfortunate engineering issues with the machining of the front timing cover. We have had several occasions where we have had to get shim kits and re-shim the cam sensors after doing HG's on these early engines after they exhibit stalling, idling problems, misfiring, etc and start throwing bunch of codes after we take them apart and put them back together:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2014/SB-10052498-5734.pdf

Starting to see why we don't like this junk? 

GD

I'm not disagreeing with you. This car has been troublesome to say the least. I certainly miss the older cars and engineering.

[Daskuppler]

So, with a recent development of a metallic chatter (i thought it was something else), could my oil consumption be related to bad valves/seats?  I didn't see a TSB regarding any known problems.  The blue smoke is definitely in puffs, not consistant and most prevalent at high RPMS and taking off from idle (there is also a big stumble from the motor taking off from idle).

[GeneralDisorder]

3 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

So, with a recent development of a metallic chatter (i thought it was something else), could my oil consumption be related to bad valves/seats?  I didn't see a TSB regarding any known problems.  The blue smoke is definitely in puffs, not consistant and most prevalent at high RPMS and taking off from idle (there is also a big stumble from the motor taking off from idle).

Can you post a video of the noise in question? 

Valve guides can drop and stem seals can leak - it's certainly something we do see. Generally doesn't make noises though....... More prevalent on the later EJ engines - 2006 to 2012 engines seem to drop guides on the regular. We have seen some of the early FB25's that bend/burn exhaust valves due to this behavior. Just replaced the engine in a 2013 Outback that suffered a burnt valve from severe oil consumption (bad rings). Rebuilt the heads and replaced the short block with a reman from Subaru. The reman engine lasted 13,000 miles and then threw THREE rods. Subaru replaced the engine for free on that one. The customer elected to install a low mileage CVT transmission which unfortunately came with the pilot stub cut off the torque converter by the junk yard so he had to buy an additional $700 TC for it. We just delivered it back to him after it lost all the front control arm bushings and both rear wheel bearings at 164k. Super nice guy and doesn't deserve the grief that POS has put him through. 

GD

[lmdew]

Yes, I'll keep my 2000 Impreza.  Wife has an 06 Forester that got a new Subaru Short Block before we bought it.  5 speed trans.

 

[Daskuppler]

On 6/20/2022 at 6:24 PM, GeneralDisorder said:

Can you post a video of the noise in question? 

Valve guides can drop and stem seals can leak - it's certainly something we do see. Generally doesn't make noises though....... More prevalent on the later EJ engines - 2006 to 2012 engines seem to drop guides on the regular. We have seen some of the early FB25's that bend/burn exhaust valves due to this behavior. Just replaced the engine in a 2013 Outback that suffered a burnt valve from severe oil consumption (bad rings). Rebuilt the heads and replaced the short block with a reman from Subaru. The reman engine lasted 13,000 miles and then threw THREE rods. Subaru replaced the engine for free on that one. The customer elected to install a low mileage CVT transmission which unfortunately came with the pilot stub cut off the torque converter by the junk yard so he had to buy an additional $700 TC for it. We just delivered it back to him after it lost all the front control arm bushings and both rear wheel bearings at 164k. Super nice guy and doesn't deserve the grief that POS has put him through. 

GD

 

I'm not sure the noise would be picked up over all of the road noise while driving.  So far it is not present at idle or without load on the engine.  It's going to a local Subaru only shop to see if they can provide some insight as to cost of repairs and required repairs.

[Daskuppler]

Subaru's official response:

Hi Andrew:

 

The vehicle is well beyond the terms of the warranty and our obligation to the vehicle has concluded. Subaru of America will have no further involvement. 

[Daskuppler]

Does anyone have any input on best procedure to break in the new block? From what I can tell Subaru keeps it pretty simple... Keep it under 4,000roms and try to avoid a constant speed/rpm for any length of time for the first 1k miles.

 

Nothing mentions anything about an oil change, do they still need to be done at about 500 miles and again after break in?  Anything else to keep in mind? Is there a best oil to use for break in? What do you guys run after the fact?  Is Amsoil still good? I have 4 vehicles and a motorcycle so I can certainly just the subscription if it's worth it.

[GeneralDisorder]

We prefer the Amsoil 5w40 Euro full SAPS for Subaru engines. They don't consume it as easily and it provides excellent high pressure protection for Subaru's narrow rod bearings. 

As far as break-in...... we don't believe in it AT ALL. First off there should be NO metal to metal contact with the exception of some ring seating that takes place..... on the first revolution of the engine it is "breaking in" and on the second it is "wearing out"...... that has been our experience. We build high performance Subaru engines, we heat cycle them a few times, and then they drive about 50-100 feet over to the dyno bay where our tuner drives them on the rollers for about 5-10 miles and then goes to full power at WOT. 

"Break-in" is a CYA on the part of the engine builder. If the engine fails they are hoping that the customer being "gentle" with it will result is less collateral damage. Break in is something that has not been applicable to internal combustion engine construction since the 1970's and at this point is absolutely an "old wives tale". 

What "limitations" are placed on your driving habits of a brand new vehicle? None right? Exactly.......... 

And we have been doing this for ~40 years combined experience with ZERO customer complaints. Take it or leave it. 

GD

Edited July 9, 2022 by GeneralDisorder

[Daskuppler]

20 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

We prefer the Amsoil 5w40 Euro full SAPS for Subaru engines. They don't consume it as easily and it provides excellent high pressure protection for Subaru's narrow rod bearings. 

As far as break-in...... we don't believe in it AT ALL. First off there should be NO metal to metal contact with the exception of some ring seating that takes place..... on the first revolution of the engine it is "breaking in" and on the second it is "wearing out"...... that has been our experience. We build high performance Subaru engines, we heat cycle them a few times, and then they drive about 50-100 feet over to the dyno bay where our tuner drives them on the rollers for about 5-10 miles and then goes to full power at WOT. 

"Break-in" is a CYA on the part of the engine builder. If the engine fails they are hoping that the customer being "gentle" with it will result is less collateral damage. Break in is something that has not been applicable to internal combustion engine construction since the 1970's and at this point is absolutely an "old wives tale". 

What "limitations" are placed on your driving habits of a brand new vehicle? None right? Exactly.......... 

And we have been doing this for ~40 years combined experience with ZERO customer complaints. Take it or leave it. 

GD

Thank you. Sounds good!