heartless Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 2004 Forester - EJ251, manual.. this has happened the last two times i have put gas in.. get gas, and the engine is difficult to start, and runs roughly for a minute or so once it is started. Once it settles in and runs nice, it is fine.. no more starting issues, no more rough running until i get gas again... is 2004 one of the ones that had the fuel pump cap issues? could this be a symptom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Dunno about the cap issue but try starting with your foot flat to the floor and see if that gets it started. This cuts the injector pulses off during cranking, and if the trick works something is causing a flooded engine event. Cheers Bennie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 9, 2022 Author Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) i did have to hit the gas pedal to get it to start yesterday, then had to hold it about 1/3-1/2 to keep it running until it straightened up. not sure if it matters or not, but both times gas level in the tank was around the 1/4 tank mark... Edited June 9, 2022 by heartless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 the cap/o-ring problem is not too bad to inspect for, I just dunno if the Forester's design is similar. I may not know exactly what the issue is here - but can't help wondering a coupla things; suppose the input of fuel is disturbing some debris in the tank that collects on the 'sock' - but temporarily ???? any whooshing of air when the gas cap is loosened/removed? and sense if air is moving in or out? I'd be tempted to try 2-3 tankfuls with Techron (maybe seafoam?) or similar gas treatment, maybe some odd check valve is sticking somewhere???? maybe scan the ECU and see if a code is pending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Sticky IACV comes to mind but the occurrence when filling with fuel does not as this issue doesn’t discriminate with fuel levels… Haven’t changed or played any plumbing under the bonnet recently? I’m wondering if it could be some fuel being pushed through the vac lines or an emissions venting system that’s potentially flooding the engine. Mind you I can fill all of our Subarus to the brim and none have an issue with starting afterwards. It’ll be interesting to know what the issue is once it’s sorted! Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 have not messed with anything underhood recently. slight air movement when popping the fuel cap, and it does "lock" like it is supposed to i kind of wondered the same about possible grunge, but it is just odd that it started suddenly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 eh, the debris thing is a stupid guess really, imagine how much anything like that would slosh with normal turning/braking.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Brothers 99 Legacy with a 2.2 installed is doing the same thing. No CEL. Runs fine otherwise. Strange. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 44 minutes ago, lmdew said: Brothers 99 Legacy with a 2.2 installed is doing the same thing. No CEL. Runs fine otherwise. Strange. did his start acting like this suddenly as well? next time i get gas i am going to try something... rather than locking the handle (lowest position), i am going to run it a bit slower, see if that makes any difference have never had a car do this before, so quite puzzled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) try a squirt of starting fluid immediately - when it's running rough? at least we'd know if it was fuel-related...? or, next time you feel it would fail, do a few OFF to ON (not START) key cycles. wait for a 3 count at ON, then go to OFF, back to ON, 3 count, etc. - quickly. That runs the fuel pump and should fully pressurize the rails....? you said you can detect a little air movement...wonder what would happen NOT at fueling, but say right now you removed and replaced the gas cap? would it start smoothly? Edited June 13, 2022 by 1 Lucky Texan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said: ..wonder what would happen NOT at fueling, but say right now you removed and replaced the gas cap? would it start smoothly? interesting thought.. will have to give it a try & see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 lol, not like I know what any of the results would mean.... between the purge valve and the evap 'drain' valve (connected to the carbon canister) the fuel tank should not have any pressure differential with ambient air so, I think the air moving effect you get when removing the cap 'could' be a clue....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 more searching online seems to point to the purge valve; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP5gPigl6NQ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 The purge valve was a common issue in the early turbos - a mate of mine recommended that I move the purge control valve from under the intake manifold to somewhere easily accessible for replacement. So I’d agree that this could be the issue on both vehicles mentioned in this thread. Good thought @1 Lucky Texan! Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Check evap canister, valves (such as purge valve mentioned), and lines. Don’t top off the gas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 evap canister, sure, but this is not a turbo model, just an NA, so is a purge valve even on my car? if so, where would it be located? and i dont "top off" when i get gas, pump until it kicks off, and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 purge valves have moved around with model years, but yeah, you have one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 And I always fill until the brim because extra fuel in the tank - more time away from the servo for me, plus it’s the most accurate way to keep fuel records knowing the tank is full to the same level every time. I’ve not had an issue with this method of filling in my brumby, L series or my sister’s Gen3 Liberty. And it’s not like I’m only driving a block or two before the car is shut off and left to sit. Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 19 hours ago, heartless said: evap canister, sure, but this is not a turbo model, just an NA, so is a purge valve even on my car? if so, where would it be located? and i dont "top off" when i get gas, pump until it kicks off, and done. I think your car should have a purge valve. Look it up on Subaru website or ebay or image search. It'll be on the intake manifold or possibly the evap canister. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 likely underhood on an 04, I think earlier models had it on the charcoal canister? 2 wire connector and 2 small evap hoses. maybe near strut tower/firewall? I saw some folks mention it could be near the alternator? sorry, that's all I got from quick search. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 pouring down rain with tornado watch right now, so poking around will have to wait i did try loosening the fuel cap before leaving the house today (no air hiss, either), and it started just fine, but that was on a cold start... want to try it again with warm engine... would have done today, but like i said.. rain. =P aside from this issue (only a problem when getting gas), the car runs perfectly - every start outside of getting gas is fine, no problems, starts right up, idles fine, drives fine - no issues at all otherwise. have been driving this car since September with no problems until it suddenly started this weird thing at fill ups. just strange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 12 hours ago, heartless said: …with tornado watch right now That’s the first time I reckon I’ve ever heard or read that phrase! I hope you’re all safe! Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 all good, thanks, Bennie. watch just means to be prepared, conditions are right for possible tornadoes - warning is when a funnel cloud has been spotted and it is time to take cover. had been really hot on Tuesday, then a cold front moved in, producing thunderstorms... perfect weather for a tornado... hot air mixing with cold, strong winds, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 8 hours ago, el_freddo said: That’s the first time I reckon I’ve ever heard or read that phrase! I hope you’re all safe! Cheers Bennie tornadoes are the yanks answer to funnel web spiders 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 ok, tested opening the cap with everything fully warmed up... no air sucking, no problem re-starting partner offered to top up the tank since we had to get gas for the lawn mower as well... was about half a tank at the time... interestingly enough, no problem starting that time. the previous 2 fills, with the starting issue, happened when around a 1/4 tank left ... so... how much is left in the tank when filling seems to be a factor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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