Where is my fuel pump hiding?

[forester2002s]

From a 2002 Factory Service Manual:

The following color codes are used to indicate the colors of the wires used.
Color code Color
L Blue
B Black
Y Yellow
G Green
R Red
W White
Br Brown
Lg Light green
Gr Gray
P Pink
Or Orange
Lb Light Blue
V Violet
SA Sealed (Inner)
SB Sealed (Outer)

[lmdew]

Great info.  Get the schematic, find the 3 elements of a circuit - Load, Ground and Power.  Then you are ready to troubleshoot the system.  If you are not checking the circuit with the load hooked up, you meter can lie to you.  Loadpro fixes that.  Find Opens, Shorts and High resistance in minutes.

[mrfixiter]

 

Well ladies and gentlemen, there seems to be some issue with me copying and pasting quotes from pg 1 to pg 2. All the formatting is messed up. I will try to reconstruct the content ASAP

mrfixiter

Edited August 24, 2022 by mrfixiter

[mrfixiter]

I think my previous post was too long and it was displaying improperly so I'll keep this short:

Quote

if you go to the beginning of the wiring section, it will tell you how the connectors are viewed & labeled, and how to tell a male from a female in the drawings.

Years ago, I remember seeing something like that in the manual but I've been searching through all the pdf's in my library and I've not been able to locate it. Any ideas which pdf contains this info?

 

12 hours ago, forester2002s said:

From a 2002 Factory Service Manual:

The following color codes are used to indicate the colors of the wires used.
Color code Color
L Blue
B Black
Y Yellow
G Green
R Red
W White
Br Brown
Lg Light green
Gr Gray
P Pink
Or Orange
Lb Light Blue
V Violet
SA Sealed (Inner)
SB Sealed (Outer)

Most excellent. Thank you.

Quote

I've had intermittent fuel pumps caused by the fuel pump relay.

It's high up under the dash on the drivers side.

Larry

Let's hope it doesn't come down to that!

 

Quote

Great info.  Get the schematic, find the 3 elements of a circuit - Load, Ground and Power.  Then you are ready to troubleshoot the system.  If you are not checking the circuit with the load hooked up, you meter can lie to you.  Loadpro fixes that.  Find Opens, Shorts and High resistance in minutes.

In other words, "Keep it simple." I have to remember that.

Thanks for your replies.

mrfixiter

[heartless]

1 hour ago, mrfixiter said:

Years ago, I remember seeing something like that in the manual but I've been searching through all the pdf's in my library and I've not been able to locate it. Any ideas which pdf contains this info?

should be the very first couple of pages of the wiring section - "General Description" - "How to use this manual".

if you dont already have it bookmarked.. add this site to your collection: http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/

[mrfixiter]

52 minutes ago, heartless said:

should be the very first couple of pages of the wiring section - "General Description" - "How to use this manual".

if you dont already have it bookmarked.. add this site to your collection: http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/

Yes sirree! It's right there on page 2.

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[jonathan909]

9 hours ago, lmdew said:

If you are not checking the circuit with the load hooked up, you meter can lie to you.  Loadpro fixes that.  Find Opens, Shorts and High resistance in minutes.

I know you're a fan of these things, and I'm not saying that it's a bad tool.  I'm saying that $80+ is a lot of money to pay for a resistor.

[mrfixiter]

1 hour ago, jonathan909 said:

I know you're a fan of these things, and I'm not saying that it's a bad tool.  I'm saying that $80+ is a lot of money to pay for a resistor.

It is a lot of money to pay for a load resistor but if you do this for a living and charge top dollar for your time, then you're paying for the convenience. For most of us DIY'ers, we do this at our leisure and the extra time spent doesn't matter much. I think a 12V light bulb tester would work well for the weekend mechanic.

mrfixiter

[jonathan909]

Not necessarily.  The point is that you have to draw enough current to reveal the kind of faults that this gimmick is designed to spot, and a simple light may not do so.

[lmdew]

Problem is most folks don't load the circuit.  They unplug the connector... read voltage and buy the part thinking it's failed.  $80 may be a bit but it's cheaper than a lot of parts.

If it saves you one time, most likely you've paid for it.

[jonathan909]

Yeah, but it's a lot more expensive than having a few old power resistors lying around - and a clue what the hell you're doing.

[heartless]

2 hours ago, jonathan909 said:

Yeah, but it's a lot more expensive than having a few old power resistors lying around - and a clue what the hell you're doing.

and a lot of people dont - aren't techy enough to know how to use the resistor.

for me, the 80 bucks would be worth the cost. I am good with a lot of things, but I am not an electronics tech. and considering a fuel pump is gonna cost at least $150, probably more.. well worth the cost for the load pro if the problem is not the pump itself - that would be at least $70 saved..

[jonathan909]

This is an important point, because it extends well beyond this case and the (admittedly relatively modest) 80 bucks we're talking about.

If you don't know enough about electricity to understand how to put a load resistor in a circuit - and when, and why, and what its rating should be - then you're not going to understand what the Loadpro is doing.  And if you don't understand why it's telling you what it is, then you're simply relying on magic to solve your problems for you.  And at that point, you're not only demonstrating questionable competence in what you're doing, but showing that you're vulnerable to any slick sales pitch offering to sell you solutions to problems that you just don't understand.  This is not a recipe for a well-informed populace.

Again, I want to stress that I don't have a problem with this product.  $80 isn't an outrageous price to pay for a well-designed, useful tool, though my guess is that you'd get much greater value out of the "Fundamental Electrical Troubleshooting" book that they sell, packaged with the probe, for an additional $35.  Hell, I might even find it handy myself... but that's because I understand it and why it's useful, and would not just be buying it out of fear that without it I'm not smart enough to conjure the magic that it contains.

I've seen much worse cases.  In the electronics biz, there's a very successful line of products named "Tracker" from a company called "Huntron".  It's a little benchtop box with a little video screen, a couple of pushbuttons, and a pair of probes that promises to find the faults in your circuits.  When they appeared on the market about 45 years ago they offered magic to people who didn't (and don't) understand electronics (well enough).  At the time an engineer friend dubbed them a symptom of "the new charlatanism"; I agreed then and still do.  But the company has persisted and the product line grown, from the original Tracker at around $1000 to models much more expensive, e.g. $10K-$15K.  What is it?  A ridiculously oversimplified version of the oscilloscope that any competent technician has on his/her bench - and treats like an extension of their body - with a low-voltage ("filament") transformer added.  If you search "diy huntron tracker" (or similar) you'll find out how trivial it is - a five-buck addition to your existing 'scope, assuming you don't already have the transformer in your junk box.  Are there cases in which it can be useful?  Yeah, a few - many years ago a friend gave me one, because I'm an incurable pack rat I didn't just throw it out, and there have been a couple of unusual cases over the years in which it's helped a bit, if only because I would have had to walk further to get to the shelf where I keep transformers (Hint:  Ever use a unijunction transistor?  Probably not).  But I've had epic arguments with guys who dropped that $10K+ and had convinced themselves that they were now the Exhalted Possessors of the Magic when it was clear that they didn't have a goddamn clue in a carload what they were doing.

So I've got no beef with the Loadpro.  If someone gave me one I'd probably even use it.  But please don't buy one if you don't understand exactly what it's doing, because it really doesn't contain any magic.

Edited August 25, 2022 by jonathan909

[heartless]

8 hours ago, jonathan909 said:

If you don't know enough about electricity to understand how to put a load resistor in a circuit - and when, and why, and what its rating should be - then you're not going to understand what the Loadpro is doing.

I understand plenty about electricity, but i do not "understand" resistors and their ratings. About all i know about resistors is they impede the flow of electricity... but ratings, and how & when to use them? sorry, no clue. I am a generalist, not a specialist.
One does not need to be an electronics tech wizard to understand what is going on, however. Seems to me, you are expecting everyone to be like you, and know this kind of stuff, when the simple fact is many dont. And to be perfectly honest, one does not need to understand all the little nuances to be able to use something like a Loadpro.

Now, can we please get back on topic?

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by heartless

[jonathan909]

The topic naturally moved from location to basic testing, so we haven't suffered much drift.

You're contradicting yourself.  You say that you "understand plenty about electricity", but if you don't get Ohm's law (which is all we're talking about here), then you haven't the most basic grasp of the subject.  This is not about "little nuances" or my unreasonably lofty expectations.  It's the first thing a ten-year-old interested in playing around with batteries and lights learns, so it certainly falls within what one can reasonably be expected to know in order to competently troubleshoot problems of this nature.

Edited August 25, 2022 by jonathan909

[mrfixiter]

While I'm waiting for another opportunity to resume my troubleshooting, I was wondering, where do you go looking for a reliable, used, OEM Subaru fuel pump?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[jonathan909]

Lots of Pick'n'Pulls in CA (i.e. 19).  Any near you?

https://www.picknpull.com/locations

Edited August 25, 2022 by jonathan909

[mrfixiter]

50 minutes ago, jonathan909 said:

Lots of Pick'n'Pulls in CA (i.e. 19).  Any near you?

https://www.picknpull.com/locations

 

No Pick 'n' Pulls nearby but I did search for salvage yards in my area and found one 30 minutes away which does have the part. The next question is, how can I make sure the fuel pump in the salvaged car is an OEM pump?

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[jonathan909]

Honestly, I've never bothered to check.  They don't seem to fail that often, so I just figure that the odds are that it is.  I'm sure there are some Subaru markings, perhaps the Fuji Heavy Industries "swoop" logo or something.

[1 Lucky Texan]

www.car-part.com or maybe LKQ

check ebay

check craigslist for someone 'parting out' a compatible soob.

post WTB in classifieds here, and maybe over at www.subaruoutback.org ...?

Edited August 25, 2022 by 1 Lucky Texan

[mrfixiter]

35 minutes ago, jonathan909 said:

Honestly, I've never bothered to check.  They don't seem to fail that often, so I just figure that the odds are that it is.  I'm sure there are some Subaru markings, perhaps the Fuji Heavy Industries "swoop" logo or something.

Now I'm really wondering if they're that reliable, I'd better make sure that the old one is defective!

Thanks for your reply.

mrfixiter

[mrfixiter]

1 minute ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

www.car-part.com or maybe LKQ

check ebay

check craigslist for someone 'parting out' a compatible soob.

Thanks for those suggestions. 👍

mrfixiter

[lmdew]

ebay has some good pictures.  Subaru pumps are usually smaller in Dia than aftermarket and goldish in color.

[mrfixiter]

On 8/25/2022 at 5:06 PM, lmdew said:

ebay has some good pictures.  Subaru pumps are usually smaller in Dia than aftermarket and goldish in color.

I'll keep that in mind when I go shopping.

Thanks for your reply. 😀

mrfixiter

Edited August 27, 2022 by mrfixiter

[el_freddo]

On 8/26/2022 at 12:56 AM, mrfixiter said:

I was wondering, where do you go looking for a reliable, used, OEM Subaru fuel pump?

You don’t. You go and get either a new OEM unit and fit it or you buy a quality aftermarket unit. 

There’s no guarantee how a used pump was looked after. These pumps use the fuel for cooling - run out of fuel often is a pump killer, even once can be enough (probably more so for external EFI pumps) to do permanent damage if not toast the pump. 

If you were in a bind second hand could b a get out of jail card, but only if it meant you get to leave with a working pump! And I’d pull it from a vehicle with the most amount of dirt etc around the fuel pump plate.

My 5c on the subject of used fuel pumps. 

Cheers 

Bennie