metal shavings in CVT

[5000fingers]

I have a 2011 2.5L Outback, and our mechanic, who is a very reputable mechanic in our community, is recommending a new transmission, at a nifty price tag of $8K. He says Subaru is the only company remanufacturing these transmissions, and theirs cost $6K. The only symptom that he is going by to recommend the new transmission is metal shavings in the fluid. This transmission is supposedly a sealed unit that we're never supposed to service, and I have my doubts about the recommendation. But the car has something like 150K miles on it, presumably without ever having the tranny flushed, and I'm wondering if seeing some metal in the fluid is enough to recommend such a prohibitively expensive repair. I mean, what transmission wouldn't have a little glitter in the fluid after 150K miles, and no servicing?

So I would like to ask this board if seeing metal shavings really is the beginning of the end for a CV transmission? Should I flush the fluid and check again after a few hundred more miles? What would you do in my situation? 

 

[GeneralDisorder]

They should be serviced. Regardless of what Subaru marketing says. Our recommendation is every 60k miles. Fluid is cheap. Transmissions aren't. Newer model CVT's no longer carry this lifetime fluid recommendation. And they have a suspiciously short maintenance interval for "severe service" - the definition of same being absurdly broad and encompassing such things as "stop and go driving" and "ANY amount of towing". 

That out of the way, these transmissions are absolute trash. They fail constantly and I wouldn't be surprised if it was reaching end of life at 150k. MANY failed within the extended warranty campaign that Subaru was essentially forced to put them on - 10 years, 100k miles - due to the extremely high failure rates. 

Metal "shavings" should never be something you see in a healthy transmission. You are going to see some amount of glitter to the fluid - these transmissions still have plenty of wet clutches in them and that clutch material is "semi-metallic" and as it wears it does produce "glitter".... which is different and distinct from "shavings" - which are generally large enough to easily identify individual pieces. 

GD

[idosubaru]

3 hours ago, 5000fingers said:

I have a 2011 2.5L Outback, and our mechanic, who is a very reputable mechanic in our community, is recommending a new transmission, at a nifty price tag of $8K. He says Subaru is the only company remanufacturing these transmissions, and theirs cost $6K. The only symptom that he is going by to recommend the new transmission is metal shavings in the fluid. This transmission is supposedly a sealed unit that we're never supposed to service, and I have my doubts about the recommendation. But the car has something like 150K miles on it, presumably without ever having the tranny flushed, and I'm wondering if seeing some metal in the fluid is enough to recommend such a prohibitively expensive repair. I mean, what transmission wouldn't have a little glitter in the fluid after 150K miles, and no servicing?

So I would like to ask this board if seeing metal shavings really is the beginning of the end for a CV transmission? Should I flush the fluid and check again after a few hundred more miles? What would you do in my situation? 

 

car-part.com for used trans pricing and availability.  2013-2017 Outback CVTs are interchangeable even though that database says they are not. I’ve never checked into 2011 comparability but you might have more options than it lists. 

He’s wise for installing new - saves him and you the headache of used parts issues. And Any aftermarket rebuilt AT for Subarus should be avoided.

The glaring omission here is why was he looking and how did he check?

”presumably” - does this mean you just got the car? If so, there’s a good chance you just bought someone else’s problem after they got the same quote and sold it to you. I see this happen all the time.

Enough of that Sherlock Holmes talk - back to the omissions:

If he checked via the dipstick I wouldn’t consider that a reliable diagnosis. Drain the fluid and check. 

If it was drained, why was it drained?

Or did you have symptoms that promoted looking for issues?

Transmissions can have debris in them - the magnetic rings always have built up debris on them over time in the pans. So you’ll need to describe this “shavings”. 

But yes - “shavings”, in the way I’d use that word is absolutely catastrophic for an AT. That said - I could envision plenty of scenarios where I’d fill it with new fluid and see what happens. As annoying  as those are to fill.

2017 CVTs work in 2013s, not sure if they go back to 2011 but that might expand your used options if you need that route  

 

[5000fingers]

19 hours ago, idosubaru said:

The glaring omission here is why was he looking and how did he check?

 

We brought it in for some noise in the front drivetrain, and he diagnosed that as a bad CV axle. I can easily swap that out, but in the process of diagnosing that he looked at the CVT fluid. He didn't drain it to check it, just looking at the fluid with the dipstick. So maybe the next step would be to really flush the fluid out to take a look at it, and see if it really does have *shavings,* and not just an expected amount of "glitter."

BTW we've had this car for several years. I'm not sure we would go for spending $8K on a new transmission, because to be honest I don't know how durable the rest of the car is. So with the long-term future of owning this car in doubt, if it turns out this tranny is circling the drain, I'll probably just get a low mileage used unit to replace it with.

[lmdew]

www.car-part.com

[idosubaru]

5 hours ago, 5000fingers said:

We brought it in for some noise in the front drivetrain, and he diagnosed that as a bad CV axle. I can easily swap that out, but in the process of diagnosing that he looked at the CVT fluid. He didn't drain it to check it, just looking at the fluid with the dipstick. So maybe the next step would be to really flush the fluid out to take a look at it, and see if it really does have *shavings,* and not just an expected amount of "glitter."

BTW we've had this car for several years. I'm not sure we would go for spending $8K on a new transmission, because to be honest I don't know how durable the rest of the car is. So with the long-term future of owning this car in doubt, if it turns out this tranny is circling the drain, I'll probably just get a low mileage used unit to replace it with.

 

How confident are you/him this is an axle noise?  Maybe it's the CVT making the noise?

Let's assume his diagnosis is correct for a moment:

Excellent. A dipstick check isn't very conclusive or condemning. Change the fluid, have the fluid dumped into a clean container and inspect the fluid. 

Blackstone labs I think can test the particulate matter of CVT fluid and tell you what it is and whether it's more indicative of wear or worse issues. 

If the noise is an axle and there's no transmission noises then there's a reasonable chance of not having any issues either.  CVT's aren't very good at failing quietly. 

 

You didn't ask but do not use any parts store axles.  They all suck no matter what rando review you read on line.  You will not find the holy grail you, or others, think exist. They all suck. Regrease/reboot your original, or install a rebooted/regreased used Subaru axle. Aftermarkets are total trash. All of them. Unless you like gambling with insanely high failure rates and wasting your time swapping axles multiple times.

Install a Subaru axle or reboot/regrease the original.  They typically last the life of the car. The ones I've regreased/rebooted the old grease just pours out and is absolultely trashy...or it's mostly empty/dry.  I've never rebooted a noisy/clicking Subaru OEM axle that didn't drive like new afterwards. I of course avoid ones that have eggregious issues, I don't blindly regrease ones filled with sand (which I've seen before)

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by idosubaru

[3Pin]

that cvt doesn't have a dipstick.

 

[el_freddo]

7 hours ago, 3Pin said:

that cvt doesn't have a dipstick.

 

Yes it does, it just depends on which mechanic works on it  

Sorry, couldn’t help myself!

Cheers 

Bennie