Daughter wants a repairable, low maintenance Subie, what to avoid?

[nelstomlinson]

She has a budget of $6k, wants something newer than ma and pa have, and wants to stay away from modern innovations like hybrids, continuously variable transmissions and variable valve timing. I know to avoid the early 2.5L DOHC, but I really know nothing about the Subies from this century. 

So, what's an age range that'll be a sweet spot between "old and odd and falling apart" and "too new and trendy to be reliable?" Are there models or features to avoid?

[moosens]

I think you mentioned what to avoid already. More experienced folks may add but that’s the nutshell version.  And that’s just my opinion. I’m not a mechanic. Long time user and abuser.

 

And in that regard I can report I/we have had much success with the third generation Legacys. 
 

Personal preference is first gen but I can see where you’re daughter would gag at the thought. 
 

We currently have two third gen Legacys and one fourth gen “Outback” Legacy. They’re all ok but the more new the more difficult for the backyard guy to work on - and I think you’ll hear that option repeated. 

Praise to your wise daughter. 

[nelstomlinson]

What's the dividing lines between generations 2, 3 and 4? I wasn't kidding about not knowing much about this century's vehicles.

[nelstomlinson]

We're seeing newer Subies advertising PZEV engines. That sounds like trouble - when did that start?

[ocei77]

PZEV started in 04.

89-93 1

94-98 2

99-04 3, etc. these are US models.

every 5 years, include the year you start with

 

I  am partial to the 5th gen styling, but I like the 4th also.

O.

Edited April 17, 2023 by ocei77

[Daskuppler]

My wife drives a 14 Forester. Don't buy one. It's constant maintenance. The FB25A engine is no good (notorious oil consumption). CVTs are hit and.miss, my wife's Forester has it. I change the oil every 20k and we have had no problems, but the forums are filled with failure threads.

On the flip side, I have a 2002 impreza NA with the EJ25 and 5MT. It's bulletproof apart from when I let it down. I have done very little to it.

The EJ engine is notorious for head gasket issues, while the FB engine doesn't have problems with the gaskets.

 

Personally, I would not buy anything after 2006 and nothing with a turbo.

The H6 is a solid engine but terrible fuel economy.

The 4eat transmission is pretty solid and better than the 5eat. The manual transmissions are all pretty solid.

 Biggest most common repairs to look for are head gasket issues and if timing has been done. CV axles are expensive as well.

Again, early 2000s we're all solid cars. Anything after that, expect maintenance.

Our Forester lost of major repairs:

4 engine blocks (including the one from the factory) $6500

Heated seats replacement $700 and backordered

Occupant detection mat for airbags $700

AC compressor $1000

CV axles $800

Subaru would not cover anything under warranty despite most of it being known issues Subaru makes good cars, but I have lost a lot of faith in them and the dealerships.

Prices are parts only except for the engine block.

I would have a hard.time buying another newer Subaru.

[1 Lucky Texan]

a really cherry Forester from about 2010 ???

 

not sure really -

 

the older any car gets, the less important its brand or 'relative reliability' and the more important its history of care/repair and its current condition.

in other words, a given 13 year old Fiat 'could' be a better purchase than a given 13 year old Honda.

 

Find a local mechanic and ask if he has any customers looking to sell, also ask about bringing him a car for a pre-purchase inspection. Try not to buy another person's 'headache'.

Edited April 17, 2023 by 1 Lucky Texan

[idosubaru]

Nonturbo EJ25 with new properly installed Subaru headgaskets, full timing kit, and 4EAT. 

Which should be close to:
2005--2010 Forester
2005-2011 Imp
2005 - 2012 Outback/Legacy

 

[Stelcom66]

I've read on here as @idosubaru said you're better off with a nonturbo EJ25. I don't know how valid Carfax is, but I looked at some of the maintenance history reports on some Foresters with the EJ25, I wish I was in the market for one because a few 2009-2010s that I looked at did have the headgaskets and timing belts replaced. I prefer manual transmissions, but given the reputation of the 4EAT and really no disadvantage in fuel economy -- I'd be fine with that. Consider a clutch replacement (which I had on a 2002 Forester) any slight fuel savings with a manual transmission is wiped out and then some,

One thing I really like is Subaru has heated cloth seats. I saw that @Daskuppler has heated seats on order, I haven't heard trouble with those, is that common I wonder? I should have kept my 2002 Forester S. It would have been worth it to have the headgaskets replaced when the time came. When I bought it the dealer claimed to have replaced the timing belt as I requested. 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Stelcom66

[lmdew]

06 or older.  

Rust free with good maintenance records or you are willing to do some maintenance.

[Daskuppler]

17 hours ago, Stelcom66 said:

I've read on here as @idosubaru said you're better off with a nonturbo EJ25. I don't know how valid Carfax is, but I looked at some of the maintenance history reports on some Foresters with the EJ25, I wish I was in the market for one because a few 2009-2010s that I looked at did have the headgaskets and timing belts replaced. I prefer manual transmissions, but given the reputation of the 4EAT and really no disadvantage in fuel economy -- I'd be fine with that. Consider a clutch replacement (which I had on a 2002 Forester) any slight fuel savings with a manual transmission is wiped out and then some,

One thing I really like is Subaru has heated cloth seats. I saw that @Daskuppler has heated seats on order, I haven't heard trouble with those, is that common I wonder? I should have kept my 2002 Forester S. It would have been worth it to have the headgaskets replaced when the time came. When I bought it the dealer claimed to have replaced the timing belt as I requested. 

 

My wife's car has heated cloth. The driver side went out on the bottom. It's not serviceable and requires the entire bottom be replaced to the tube of $700 for parts. I've seen it be a problem occasionally, but I wouldn't say it's a huge issue

[Stelcom66]

5 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

My wife's car has heated cloth. The driver side went out on the bottom. It's not serviceable and requires the entire bottom be replaced to the tube of $700 for parts. I've seen it be a problem occasionally, but I wouldn't say it's a huge issue

Sorry to hear the price and the wait. Hopefully after it's replaced it'll be fixed for good. At least the passenger heated seat in the Forester is the entire seat. I think in Honda CR-Vs it's just the bottom, and they're only available with leather.

[el_freddo]

I’ll vouch for the Gen 3 2000 RX Liberty/Legacy. Once the HGs were swapped for the turbo MLS units it’s been running sweet. We’ve replaced the Manual box for a second hand unit as a bearing seemed to be giving out. 

It’s currently done in the vicinity of 480,000km. Body is solid. The RX model comes with climate control, side skirts, spats, alloy rims (best upgrade for better looks/performance). It gets 8.6L/100km regularly, best ever was 8.2L/100km. Pulls like a freight train with the NA EJ251. I love this drivetrain. Easy enough for the DIYer to work on in my book, but just complicated enough that the efi does good stuff in the performance and economy department  

Add some UELs and a better rear muffler and they sound awesome too! 

Ours was rolled on its side. Apart from some new pinstripes, a couple of dints and a smashed side mirror, it still ran fine once back on all four and topped up with engine oil. 

Go for one with a good service history that also checks out after a test drive and check over, you can’t go wrong in MHO. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Steptoe's photos]

a BRAT or anything with EA81 - all you need for reliability is an ignition module spare and two flat blade screwdrivers to swap it in if spark ever stops

Edited April 19, 2023 by Steptoe's photos

[el_freddo]

10 hours ago, Steptoe's photos said:

a BRAT or anything with EA81 - all you need for reliability is an ignition module spare and two flat blade screwdrivers to swap it in if spark ever stops

And a screw driver to steal it too… 

I’d say his daughter wants a better riding/handling car with more comforts than any 80’s based EA powered Subaru could offer! I doubt she will get much more involved mechanically than paying a mechanic or buying parts for her dad to maintain the vehicle. 

Get that forester issue sorted Steptoe and enjoy it for what it is

Cheers 

Bennie

[Daskuppler]

On 4/17/2023 at 10:09 AM, nelstomlinson said:

We're seeing newer Subies advertising PZEV engines. That sounds like trouble - when did that start?

The PZEV is essentially a catalytic converter with twice the contact surface area.  This does make them more likely to get stolen, but I think Subarus sit a little low for this to be a common occurrence

My wife's forester does get fantastic fuel economy for a Subaru.  It's one of the things we do love about the car.  We average upper 20's around town.  On the highway, we actually get worse, but we are usually doing 80mph+ through the mountains with camping, photography, and rock hounding gear.  If we don't hammer on it, it gets 30mpg+  We have never had a problem with emissions or anything related to it.

If your daughter found a new generation Subaru with the FB25A engine in it that didn't have all of the bells and whistles and didn't have oil consumption, it would probably be a pretty good car.  The base model doesn't come with the CVT (we have grown quite fond of it, but we were hesitant at first).  If she could spring for a car with the FB25D even better.  Introduction of the FB25D varied based on model, but as a general rule most models after 2018 started receiving it.

A NA EJ251/2 is still going to be your absolute best bet for a "modern" Subaru though; they are just getting hard to find with low mileage and in decent shape.

[GeneralDisorder]

Reliable? Anything made before 2005. After that it just goes downhill. 

GD

[azdave]

I haven't driven Subies nearly as much as most of you here but I'm 4th owner of a 205,000 mile 03 WRX wagon and I'm sure the kid owner before me was not nice to it. He ran some Cobb bolt-on mods and tuning maps before he put it back to stock when I bought it. When I went to test drive, it was over a quart low on oil and black as tar. Today, it still has the original engine, turbo and accessories. I've not even had to charge the A/C system. It did need a radiator at 175k and the center diff at 199K both of which I found easy to change myself. Otherwise, I have few complaints other than typical vacuum hoses and such getting old and cracking.