If You Were To Buy A New Subaru...

[Daskuppler]

Hello Everyone,

 

If you were to buy a new Subaru, what would you buy?  I know the oil consumption issue has been resolved to an acceptable point.

Are the CVTs any better, or are all Subarus cursed now? How's the 2.4T. motor?

Looking at 2020+

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

When we bought my wife's 2021 Honda CR-V, one of the first vehicles we drove was a Forester. We both felt it was very nice and ultimately only rejected for the seats. Same thing with a Mazda too. Some makers have 'bolsters' on the seats that are annoying for larger people.

The Buick we drove seemed like an all-around joke.

[Daskuppler]

8 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

When we bought my wife's 2021 Honda CR-V, one of the first vehicles we drove was a Forester. We both felt it was very nice and ultimately only rejected for the seats. Same thing with a Mazda too. Some makers have 'bolsters' on the seats that are annoying for larger people.

The Buick we drove seemed like an all-around joke.

We were actually just in a newer CRV (my mother in law bought a 2022 Crosstrek sport a few months ago. We tried out the CRC and didn't like it. So much of it is personal preference though.

[Ferret54]

I know others here don't like the FB engine or CVT, but our family has had good service from them. MY14 Impreza currently at 185K, other than replacing all 4 wheel bearings, has been trouble free.

 

Our daughter has a 2016 Forester at 105K also trouble free.

 

Currently have a 2024 Crosstrek on order, our 14th Subaru ..... I know first year for a new model .... but everything on it is NOT new to Subaru, but new to the Crosstrek, which never had that option before. Only NEW thing is on all 2024 and up Subaru's, Gen 4 Eyesight.

 

Of Those 14.we had 2 that were not up to expectations. A 2002 Forester 5 speed, ate 8 front Oxygen sensors in the 1st year. It would backfire on deceleration and POP ..... CEL .... another Oxygen sensor. Subaru couldn't fix, so they gave me a deal on a 2004 Forester ..... Had that 10 trouble free years.

 

Other was 2011 Outback, Our daughter was in Construction single lane in Pa during Covid 2020, Blew top off radiator. She couldn't pull over ( no place to and next exit 4 or 5 miles down the road. Engine was destroyed, more importantly she was OK. 

 

Other 11 gave us great service .... which is why I have bought Subaru's since 1978.

 

My opinion and experiences ...... NEXT poster

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Ferret54

[Daskuppler]

5 minutes ago, Ferret54 said:

I know others here don't like the FB engine or CVT, but our family has had good service from them. MY14 Impreza currently at 185K, other than replacing all 4 wheel bearings, has been trouble free.

 

Our daughter has a 2016 Forester at 105K also trouble free.

 

Currently have a 2024 Crosstrek on order, our 14th Subaru ..... I know first year for a new model .... but everything on it is NOT new to Subaru, but new to the Crosstrek, which never had that option before. Only NEW thing is on all 2024 and up Subaru's, Gen 4 Eyesight.

 

Of Those 14.we had 2 that were not up to expectations. A 2002 Forester 5 speed, ate 8 front Oxygen sensors in the 1st year. It would backfire on deceleration and POP ..... CEL .... another Oxygen sensor. Subaru couldn't fix, so they gave me a deal on a 2004 Forester ..... Had that 10 trouble free years.

 

Other was 2011 Outback, Our daughter was in Construction single lane in Pa during Covid 2020, Blew top off radiator. She couldn't pull over ( no place to and next exit 4 or 5 miles down the road. Engine was destroyed, more importantly she was OK. 

 

Other 12 gave us great service .... which is why I have bought Subaru's since 1978.

 

My opinion and experiences ...... NEXT poster

 

That's been our general experience as well....until our 14 Forester. It has been a nightmare and Subaru has had us bent over a barrel on every major repair.

I absolutely detest the Eyesight and power lift gates so it makes it hard to buy a new vehicle but that's the way of the world.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Trim level CRV we got has manual lift gate. Maybe check all the trim levels on the Forries.  It also has a big button on the center of the dash to disable stop/start. Just have to train yourself to push it each time you start the car. Do the newer Subarus still make you navigate thru touchscreen pages to disable ss?

CRV has quite poor rear visibility - you NEED that back-up camera!

Edited May 2, 2023 by 1 Lucky Texan

[Ferret54]

Our daughter has the power tailgate on her 2016 because it's a Touring model. I personally don't like it. On the 2023 models it's standard on the Limited and Touring models.

 

Also on the newer models, and update firmware 11" screens, when you start the car, the screen comes up with options including to DISABLE Start/Stop mode. Then goes to the regular 3 information display sections ( Top is widgets you pick like temp, date, MPG, miles to empty etc, Center is infotainment information including Navigation if ordered, music, apple carplay etc, and bottom is HVAC including dual zone temps etc ) there are buttons for individual temps, Defrost etc. Also some respond to voice commands to keep your eyes on the road.

 

The Crosstrek we have on order does not offer power tailgate ( I'm glad, daughters drives me NUTS ), and I plan to turn off a lot of eyesight options ( can't turn off Forward Collision ) and enable each as I MAY get used to them. Or NOT AT ALL as my wife said when she drives the car,

[Daskuppler]

1 hour ago, Ferret54 said:

Our daughter has the power tailgate on her 2016 because it's a Touring model. I personally don't like it. On the 2023 models it's standard on the Limited and Touring models.

 

Also on the newer models, and update firmware 11" screens, when you start the car, the screen comes up with options including to DISABLE Start/Stop mode. Then goes to the regular 3 information display sections ( Top is widgets you pick like temp, date, MPG, miles to empty etc, Center is infotainment information including Navigation if ordered, music, apple carplay etc, and bottom is HVAC including dual zone temps etc ) there are buttons for individual temps, Defrost etc. Also some respond to voice commands to keep your eyes on the road.

 

The Crosstrek we have on order does not offer power tailgate ( I'm glad, daughters drives me NUTS ), and I plan to turn off a lot of eyesight options ( can't turn off Forward Collision ) and enable each as I MAY get used to them. Or NOT AT ALL as my wife said when she drives the car,

We had a loaner for a while and I cannot stand the automatic braking and beeping. Drove me insane. We liked the ascent otherwise.

I really wish you could still get a Forester XT.

[azdave]

You guys are building a nice list of all the reasons I would absolutely never buy any new car. Never have, never will. I encourage my friends to do the same. "New" for me is 10-12 years old with 80-150K miles already on the clock. Because of this, I've never paid more than $10K for any ride and usually much less. Fortunately for me, there are lots of people buying new cars that are willing to take the major depreciation hit and work out all the warranty/recall/dealer hassles for me. There are plenty of cheap, proven rides to choose from when I go looking. The last time I had a car loan was well over 20 years ago. Registration, plates and insurance are all far cheaper too. I'll take a hard pass on these modern cars that collect data and invade my privacy. 

[heartless]

Agree with azdave... i have no desire to own a new model... just one minor difference between he and I - I have never paid more than $2500 for one, LOL (usually less than 2k)
last time I had a car payment was in 1990-91 - and in the middle of a divorce the car got repo-ed.. I swore I would never do it again, and I haven't.

And if they would actually teach driving skills in drivers ed, we wouldn't need all of that fancy crap they insist on putting in new cars.

my partner has a 2017 Mazda CX5 - has a lot of that fancy lane assist, auto braking stuff - i have driven the thing exactly once, and hated it.

 

[Ferret54]

1 hour ago, azdave said:

You guys are building a nice list of all the reasons I would absolutely never buy any new car. Never have, never will. I encourage my friends to do the same. "New" for me is 10-12 years old with 80-150K miles already on the clock. Because of this, I've never paid more than $10K for any ride and usually much less. Fortunately for me, there are lots of people buying new cars that are willing to take the major depreciation hit and work out all the warranty/recall/dealer hassles for me. There are plenty of cheap, proven rides to choose from when I go looking. The last time I had a car loan was well over 20 years ago. Registration, plates and insurance are all far cheaper too. I'll take a hard pass on these modern cars that collect data and invade my privacy. 

Of the 13 Subaru's i've owned, 8 were EJxxx engines. Mostly 5 speeds. I can't deny I replaced Head gaskets on every one of those. As well as Timing belts, water pumps, separated damper pulley etc. Still have a factory wrench to hold the damper pulley for removal. And replacing Clutches, broken clutch forks and Snout Kits for worn transmissions. Being a mechanic since my teens and soon to be 70, Labor was always cheap.

I also understand why people stayed away from them because they were NOT mechanically inclined and these repairs become expensive very quickly. For this reason I also helped many neighbors who could not afford dealer or garage repairs. I REALLY Love my Subarus. They always started and got me through some bad weather and driving conditions.

But recent purchases ( in the last 10 years ) brought the FB motor and CVT to ALL Subarus. And I was just relaying our experiences with these newer Subarus.

 

But like politics, religion, oil discussions etc, to each their own. Ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. And everyone IS correct ...... for them.

[Daskuppler]

2 hours ago, azdave said:

You guys are building a nice list of all the reasons I would absolutely never buy any new car. Never have, never will. I encourage my friends to do the same. "New" for me is 10-12 years old with 80-150K miles already on the clock. Because of this, I've never paid more than $10K for any ride and usually much less. Fortunately for me, there are lots of people buying new cars that are willing to take the major depreciation hit and work out all the warranty/recall/dealer hassles for me. There are plenty of cheap, proven rides to choose from when I go looking. The last time I had a car loan was well over 20 years ago. Registration, plates and insurance are all far cheaper too. I'll take a hard pass on these modern cars that collect data and invade my privacy. 

There are tons of reasons to not buy a new car. I do despise them in a lot of ways. The main reason to buy a newer vehicle is that we drive...A LOT. We do 25-30,000 miles a year.  A lot of which are in bad weather, in the mountains, and at night.

If I could find a 2005 Subaru that didn't have 200k+ on it, I'd rather buy that.  Good luck, especially in Colorado.

As far as values go, a new or lightly used Subaru is a better deal than a used one in Colorado. I have a 2002 Impreza TS 5MT with 140k on it and body damage. I paid 6k for it 10 years ago. I could easily get 10k for it in my area now. A new Forester starts at 23k. Granted it comes with headaches, unwanted tech, and a decreased ability to work on it.

1 hour ago, heartless said:

Agree with azdave... i have no desire to own a new model... just one minor difference between he and I - I have never paid more than $2500 for one, LOL (usually less than 2k)
last time I had a car payment was in 1990-91 - and in the middle of a divorce the car got repo-ed.. I swore I would never do it again, and I haven't.

And if they would actually teach driving skills in drivers ed, we wouldn't need all of that fancy crap they insist on putting in new cars.

my partner has a 2017 Mazda CX5 - has a lot of that fancy lane assist, auto braking stuff - i have driven the thing exactly once, and hated it.

 

The problem definitely stems from poor driving ability and insurance issues. Sadly, you can't fix stupid...it is a plague. I personally find it more distracting fighting the technology than just driving...

1 hour ago, Ferret54 said:

Of the 13 Subaru's i've owned, 8 were EJxxx engines. Mostly 5 speeds. I can't deny I replaced Head gaskets on every one of those. As well as Timing belts, water pumps, separated damper pulley etc. Still have a factory wrench to hold the damper pulley for removal. And replacing Clutches, broken clutch forks and Snout Kits for worn transmissions. Being a mechanic since my teens and soon to be 70, Labor was always cheap.

I also understand why people stayed away from them because they were NOT mechanically inclined and these repairs become expensive very quickly. For this reason I also helped many neighbors who could not afford dealer or garage repairs. I REALLY Love my Subarus. They always started and got me through some bad weather and driving conditions.

But recent purchases ( in the last 10 years ) brought the FB motor and CVT to ALL Subarus. And I was just relaying our experiences with these newer Subarus.

 

But like politics, religion, oil discussions etc, to each their own. Ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. And everyone IS correct ...... for them.

I have replaced several sets.if head gaskets as well. The EJ years are amazingly easy to work on.

We have been a Subaru family for over 30 years (including our parents vehicles). We.love the cars and love what Subaru stands for. We use and abuse our Subarus, and usually they do fine.  We have tried looking at other brands and just cannot stray away, they just don't offer the capability a Subaru does. 

 

The goal of this post was to get people's opinions and experiences of newer Subaru models and what they are like to live with.  Everyone on here knows the older Subarus are far more reliable, there's no debate there.

 

Does anyone know if the infotainment systems can be replaced with aftermarket stuff?

[Ferret54]

4 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

Does anyone know if the infotainment systems can be replaced with aftermarket stuff?

As far as I researched and newer systems control many functions, HVAC, and other options that they did away with the physical buttons now controlling via CAN bus. MAYBE 2016,17 or 18 depending on the model you can upgrade. For this I would go to Crutchfield and see what they suggest. Out son had a 2008 Lexus IS and wanted a radio with more OOMPH .... but the factory radio did a lot more and was not recommended to be replaced.

[Daskuppler]

24 minutes ago, Ferret54 said:

As far as I researched and newer systems control many functions, HVAC, and other options that they did away with the physical buttons now controlling via CAN bus. MAYBE 2016,17 or 18 depending on the model you can upgrade. For this I would go to Crutchfield and see what they suggest. Out son had a 2008 Lexus IS and wanted a radio with more OOMPH .... but the factory radio did a lot more and was not recommended to be replaced.

That's kinda what I thought. Those giant integrated screens are usually difficult to replace. I wasn't impressed with the Harmon Kardon system in the 2022 ascent or 2020 outback we had on loaner.

I had a friend want to replace the unit in a 2015 Lexus IS. There are a couple options if you want Android Auto/Apple Carplay but no real replacement options

[Numbchux]

I worked at a Subaru dealership for about 4 years (my first dealership). At the time, I made excuses that you only see the worst examples at the dealership. And while that's true, I've learned since then.

I've been at a Toyota/Hyundai dealership for the last 2 years. Toyotas are WAY more reliable. We so rarely do anything more than maintenance on Toyotas. We do a ton of engine replacements on Hyundais, though.

 

My mom's last car was a 2012 Impreza and it is now parts at 220k miles after CVT failure, part of that is because it is salvage, as it would have gotten a free shortblock if it had a clean title, but that's still unacceptable. Her last 2 Subarus (01 Legacy and 92 Legacy) were both salvage, and both had nearly 300k on them and were sold as running, driving cars.

She was looking at new cars last fall, I tried really hard to get her into a Rav4 or Corolla Cross, as I think they are a way better vehicle. But she bought another salvage Impreza, 2017 this time. Sure it was half the price of the Toyotas, but I think it's half the car....

 

 

One thing I will say, we had a handful of issues with the Eyesight system (cars that would do an emergency stop for no apparent reason and no warning), I would avoid those cars at all costs.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Numbchux

[Daskuppler]

15 minutes ago, Numbchux said:

I worked at a Subaru dealership for about 4 years (my first dealership). At the time, I made excuses that you only see the worst examples at the dealership. And while that's true, I've learned since then.

I've been at a Toyota/Hyundai dealership for the last 2 years. Toyotas are WAY more reliable. We so rarely do anything more than maintenance on Toyotas. We do a ton of engine replacements on Hyundais, though.

 

My mom's last car was a 2012 Impreza and it is now parts at 220k miles after CVT failure, part of that is because it is salvage, as it would have gotten a free shortblock if it had a clean title, but that's still unacceptable. Her last 2 Subarus (01 Legacy and 92 Legacy) were both salvage, and both had nearly 300k on them and were sold as running, driving cars.

She was looking at new cars last fall, I tried really hard to get her into a Rav4 or Corolla Cross, as I think they are a way better vehicle. But she bought another salvage Impreza, 2017 this time. Sure it was half the price of the Toyotas, but I think it's half the car....

 

 

One thing I will say, we had a handful of issues with the Eyesight system (cars that would do an emergency stop for no apparent reason and no warning), I would avoid those cars at all costs.

A while ago, we test drove a RAV4 for my mother-in-law. We all actually liked the car, except for the fact that it sounded really echoey when talking and driving.  It was the base trim package though. Does that improve with the higher trim packages, or do you just get more bells and whistles? The added power and space was nice.

This whole thread was started because of a transmission issue...the car only has 130k on it and has been through every major issue known to these Foresters and Subaru refused to help with anything.  We lost a lot of respect for SOA with this car.

[idosubaru]

On 5/2/2023 at 8:11 AM, Daskuppler said:

Hello Everyone,

 

If you were to buy a new Subaru, what would you buy?  I know the oil consumption issue has been resolved to an acceptable point.

Are the CVTs any better, or are all Subarus cursed now? How's the 2.4T. motor?

Looking at 2020+

 

If you mean “new” I’d get the extended 120k warranty and buy whatever you want. I avoid warranties generally, and haven’t priced them recently but they were a very reasonable deal a year or two ago when acquaintenances/friends were getting them  

Ascent for space

Crosstek for resale

Outback for interior space usability 

As others have stated the Rav 4 and Toyotas in general are impeccable for reliability. 

[Daskuppler]

45 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

If you mean “new” I’d get the extended 120k warranty and buy whatever you want. I avoid warranties generally, and haven’t priced them recently but they were a very reasonable deal a year or two ago when acquaintenances/friends were getting them  

Ascent for space

Crosstek for resale

Outback for interior space usability 

As others have stated the Rav 4 and Toyotas in general are impeccable for reliability. 

Really starting to reconsider a RAV4. I think it's the only Toyota we would buy (the 4runner is too big and expensive...and we already have an Xterra).

Lots of things to consider.  I don't think we would ever buy something brand new, even in this crazy market. I think under 20k miles would be ideal

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, Daskuppler said:

Really starting to reconsider a RAV4. I think it's the only Toyota we would buy (the 4runner is too big and expensive...and we already have an Xterra).

Lots of things to consider.  I don't think we would ever buy something brand new, even in this crazy market. I think under 20k miles would be ideal

They’re solid vehicles. Prices seem to be subsiding. If you can wait a few more months, don’t buy now tax returns still in play. Economy will continue to stall and people will be spending on summer travel houses pools land scaping and cars are second fiddle. 

[Daskuppler]

47 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

They’re solid vehicles. Prices seem to be subsiding. If you can wait a few more months, don’t buy now tax returns still in play. Economy will continue to stall and people will be spending on summer travel houses pools land scaping and cars are second fiddle. 

Yeah, the bigger question is will the Forester transmission last after it's issue a couple weeks ago. It's really the only reason we started considering selling it at this point. It's still worth something now, once the transmission stops working it's a brick or 8k bill

[Numbchux]

17 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

A while ago, we test drove a RAV4 for my mother-in-law. We all actually liked the car, except for the fact that it sounded really echoey when talking and driving.  It was the base trim package though. Does that improve with the higher trim packages, or do you just get more bells and whistles? The added power and space was nice.

This whole thread was started because of a transmission issue...the car only has 130k on it and has been through every major issue known to these Foresters and Subaru refused to help with anything.  We lost a lot of respect for SOA with this car.

 

I don't drive them, almost ever, so I haven't had a lot of experience. We test drove an XLE, and I didn't notice it feeling echoey, but I don't have much to compare it to. It felt less tinny then her 12 or 18 Impreza....

 

Yea, she drives like a little old lady, and with 4 fluid changes with OEM fluid, and 2 torque converter solenoids the transmission is junk at 220k miles. And with a salvage title and an oil burning engine. It's not worth anything. I'm not hopeful about this 2018, it's still a TR580, I don't know how much better it could be.

 

The Corolla Cross has a CVT, but it has a conventional first gear to take the strain off the CVT band (no load on it from a stop, also it needs a much smaller gear ratio spread). There's been a long wait list for those, but we had one last fall that a customer ordered, and didn't even take delivery as they thought it was too small and bought a Rav instead. 

 

[Daskuppler]

1 hour ago, Numbchux said:

 

I don't drive them, almost ever, so I haven't had a lot of experience. We test drove an XLE, and I didn't notice it feeling echoey, but I don't have much to compare it to. It felt less tinny then her 12 or 18 Impreza....

 

Yea, she drives like a little old lady, and with 4 fluid changes with OEM fluid, and 2 torque converter solenoids the transmission is junk at 220k miles. And with a salvage title and an oil burning engine. It's not worth anything. I'm not hopeful about this 2018, it's still a TR580, I don't know how much better it could be.

 

The Corolla Cross has a CVT, but it has a conventional first gear to take the strain off the CVT band (no load on it from a stop, also it needs a much smaller gear ratio spread). There's been a long wait list for those, but we had one last fall that a customer ordered, and didn't even take delivery as they thought it was too small and bought a Rav instead. 

 

What are your thoughts on the standard AWD vs the TV-awd, is it with the extra money? Are all of those clutches in it for the long haul with a lead for behind the wheel? Especially if it were to see a fair amount of slippery conditions(snow, mud, gravel, sand, etc).

[Numbchux]

It's kind of cool, the standard AWD has a electromagnetic coupler on the pinion of the rear diff (no center diff, driveshaft spins at the same speed as front pinion), which allows the rear pinion to slip a bit. Then there's an open carrier in the rear diff.

The torque vectoring system has a locked carrier, and has electomagnetically actuated clutch packs on either side, meaning the torque limit to a single rear wheel is dictated only by that clutch pack.

Honda has been doing this on the Pilot, Ridgeline and MDX for some time.

Theoretically, a person could supply a full 12v to each clutch pack, and essentially get true 4WD with locked rear. The Honda service manual actually describes this for a diagnostic purpose, but only for a few seconds at a time (I'd wire a momentary button to a timer).

 

We replace the standard coupler fairly regularly, but I don't think we've had to repair any of the VT ones (admittedly, they're far less common and only a few years old, but still).

[Daskuppler]

1 hour ago, Numbchux said:

It's kind of cool, the standard AWD has a electromagnetic coupler on the pinion of the rear diff (no center diff, driveshaft spins at the same speed as front pinion), which allows the rear pinion to slip a bit. Then there's an open carrier in the rear diff.

The torque vectoring system has a locked carrier, and has electomagnetically actuated clutch packs on either side, meaning the torque limit to a single rear wheel is dictated only by that clutch pack.

Honda has been doing this on the Pilot, Ridgeline and MDX for some time.

Theoretically, a person could supply a full 12v to each clutch pack, and essentially get true 4WD with locked rear. The Honda service manual actually describes this for a diagnostic purpose, but only for a few seconds at a time (I'd wire a momentary button to a timer).

 

We replace the standard coupler fairly regularly, but I don't think we've had to repair any of the VT ones (admittedly, they're far less common and only a few years old, but still).

Great information, thank you! Are these things pretty easy to work on? Generally speaking of course.  I work on our Subarus a lot. The most complicated I get as far as repairs goes is head gaskets and timing. I try to stay away from gears, transmissions, and internal engine components.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Daskuppler

[Numbchux]

21 hours ago, Daskuppler said:

Great information, thank you! Are these things pretty easy to work on? Generally speaking of course.  I work on our Subarus a lot. The most complicated I get as far as repairs goes is head gaskets and timing. I try to stay away from gears, transmissions, and internal engine components.

Yea, absolutely. Transverse inline engine changes things from a longitudinal boxer, but IMO it's just different. Spark plugs are easy, alternators suck. etc.

And as with all newer cars, they are getting very complicated.