Recommendations for 2002 Outback Wagon LL Bean EZ30D

[jeffroid]

I just got screwed on the purchase of the subject vehicle.  The guy said he was the original owner and the odometer had 110K.  The body and interior were in excellent condition and the car ran fine on the test drive.  Everything works.

That night the car died while idling in my driveway and threw an P0340 code (crankcase position sensor).  It started up and ran fine aftewards.  I cleared the code and it comes back after a while.  I looked at some of the stuff in the glovebox that indicated the guy probably wasn't the orginal owner.  So I purchased a one-time carfax which indicated he was the third owner and the vehicle had 213K.  The reason that I didn't do the carfax BEFORE I made the purchase is because I can make some idiotic decisions sometimes.  I fully admit it.  The guy of course won't return calls or text messages now, so I fully accept the fact that I made a mistake and got screwed.

Next day it was fairly hot outside.  Driving it around town trying to figure out what I was going to do next it got a little above half way on the temp gauge.  Using one of those bucket fillers I was able to get about a half gallon of coolant in it.  Today I used one of those block test kits with the blue fluid and determined the head gaskets are leaking.

I really like the car and didn't pay that much for it.  So now I am trying to evaluate my options.  Searching threads here I get the feel that most people that post would recommend swapping a used engine in it rather than trying to repair the engine.  I'm not sure I agree with that approach.  I've driven this car and it runs and sounds fine.  Who knows if that's the case with a used engine.  I'm not too worried about the trouble code.  I've worked on my numerous Subarus my whole life but repairing it or swapping motors myself is not something I'm interested in pursuing right now.  I don't have the time or garage space.  I'd rather pay somebody I can trust a fair price to do the repair (or swap).  When it's all said and done I am hoping I should be able to end up with a good vehicle I can drive for years to come at a still fairly reasonable cost.

After all that, I guess what I am looking for is opinions, and suggestions for a shop or individual to work with in the PNW.  Thanks for reading this and thanks in advance for any sincere suggestions.

[1 Lucky Texan]

that's an odd code for the 6 cylinder engine.

given the head gasket issue too, maybe a JDM swap could work for you.

 

if you need help confirming/diagnosing.'triaging' the car, check with @GeneralDisorder - maybe drive there?

[jeffroid]

Thanks very much for the feedback.  I guess I'm struggling with the pros and cons of swapping in an unknown motor vs having this one fixed properly.  The cost aside, I am wondering if it's less risky in terms of reliability/longevity to end up with new head gaskets and a new timing chain and components on the shortblock I have now, as opposed to the head gaskets, shortblock, timing chain/components, and everything else that comes with a JDM engine.

[Numbchux]

You used to be able to get a JDM engine with ~65k miles on it for about $800. Now it's closer to twice that. So the climate has changed a bit.

 

Labor to do head gaskets on an EZ is considerable. The timing chain cover bolts alone can be a huge nightmare. And then you have all the time into an engine with completely unknown history. Sure, it runs fine now, but how long will that last?

[GeneralDisorder]

JDM engines are a way better deal and it's a huge risk to do HG's on anything with over 200k. Besides that we just don't do HG's on H6's at all - the cost is way too high as they are much too time consuming. It would cost more than the car is worth and you'll have 200k+ mile parts with new gaskets - absolutely terrible idea. 

JDM motor plus install would likely be around $4500 through my shop. They come with a 12 month, 12k mile warranty. 

GD

[jeffroid]

Thanks for the excellent feedback.  I believe I have now been officially talked out of having this engine rebuilt.  This is why I come here.

[idosubaru]

I’ve installed JDM. H6s and replaced H6 HG for the reasons you stated. I’d rather have new gaskets than another unknown engine. But it’s a beastly job and given you just bought this car I would hesitate to do it because you don’t know how badly it’s been overheated before you got it.  

[jeffroid]

In my mind it's a tough call.  There are pros and cons to both approaches.  I've pretty much decided to go with a JDM swap.  It looks like it's going to be considerably less expensive and doing all that work on a motor that apparently has over 200K miles on it just seems more risky than rolling the dice on a JDM.

[jonathan909]

Been away for a while (that's a good sign - the cars have been pretty much behaving), but I've got a few things to do this summer and might as well wade in.

I think I'm the lone dissenting voice here.  I have a couple of '01 H6s, both bought cheap, one came (in pieces) with HG leaks and the other developed them later thanks to a series of overheatings.  Last summer I pulled them both and did the gaskets, and it's fundamentally not a different job than doing it on the EJ25s.  The difference is in the timing cover and All Those Damn Screws - about 65 just to pull the front off, and those are the ones among which will almost certainly be a stripped head or two (they're Allens).  Once the heads are back on, cleaning up the cover halves and reassembling them adds a day to the job.  I actually found rethreading the chains to be kind of fun (didn't replace any of the timing components), and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.  I just took one of them (the one with the terrible body but bitchen McIntosh stereo) out for a road trip - Calgary to Toronto to fetch a(nother) boat, then back via Pittsburgh, Madison, and Minneapolis - and with a big load of old computer hardware in the back both ways.  Nothing like an H6 to give you the juice to do that.

 

[jeffroid]

Thanks for the input.  if I could do it myself, I would.  I just don't have the time or workspace to do it now.  I'm in a tough spot now because I need a daily driver ASAP.  I purchased a JDM, it's getting installed now.  I'm keeping the old engine.  Maybe after life settles down a little and I get that place I want with the huge garage I'll get after it.

[mdconvert]

Please let us know how the engine swap goes. I'm in a similar situation with our car and need to make a decision.

[idosubaru]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:14 PM, jeffroid said:

Thanks for the input.  if I could do it myself, I would.  I just don't have the time or workspace to do it now.  I'm in a tough spot now because I need a daily driver ASAP.  I purchased a JDM, it's getting installed now.  I'm keeping the old engine.  Maybe after life settles down a little and I get that place I want with the huge garage I'll get after it.

Given the original sellers dishonesty the unknowns of the original engine are probably worse than the unknowns of the JDM which also has a warranty. There's no set of differential equation capable of determining whether the original or JDM engine is better or more risky. There's no telling how badly the previous engine overheated, was limped around, ran with water, and who knows what else. 

I'll fix H6's in the right situation but your situation isn't ideal particularly paying for the labor. 

JDM engines can have a warranty so if you have it installed by a shop quickly you can at least know the car wasn't scrapped for headgaskets, or get it replaced if there is an issue. $1,000 engine + $1,000 install/parts isn't really that terrible.

While the JDM engine is out I'd replace the oil cooler gasket and thermostat with OEM subaru.  Those both take 20 minutes and less than $30 in parts and you avoid draining/paying for coolant doing it now. 

It's also a good idea to do the spark plugs and gaskets.  Do them now and you're good for another 100,000 miles, those OEM spark plugs are pricey ($100 for all 6) but easily last 100,000 miles.  They're super easy to do with the engine out and much longer with the engine in. 

[jeffroid]

Thanks for the suggestions.  All the suggested parts/gaskets/seals/hoses (and then some) are getting replaced with OEM with the engine swap.  

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, jeffroid said:

Thanks for the suggestions.  All the suggested parts/gaskets/seals/hoses (and then some) are getting replaced with OEM with the engine swap.  

Sounds like a solid job. 

[jeffroid]

I just got my car home from the shop.  It sounds, great, runs great, drives great.  Feels to me more like a new car than a 22 year old car.  Time will tell but as of now I'm happy.

For some background, I have a 1996 Outback Wagon with the 2.2L engine and manual transmission.  I bought it around 2005 with 57,000 miles on it.  The engine finally gave out a few months ago with 350,000 miles on it.  BY FAR the best car I have ever owned.  At that point I decided I was going to try and find me a nicer Gen 2 with the six cylinder and the LL Bean trim.  I didn't really have anything else I could trust to drive, so I was kind of in a pickle.

So I got the car I wanted, just ended up paying more for it than i thought i was going to have to, due to my own stupidity.  I have always freaking loved those old Outback Wagons.  Before that it was GL Wagons.

I think I'm going to try and find a motor to drop in that '96.  But this time there won't be any pressure on me to get it done and I'll do it myself.

As always, thanks everyone for the advice and support!

[jonathan909]

14 hours ago, jeffroid said:

For some background, I have a 1996 Outback Wagon with the 2.2L engine and manual transmission.  I bought it around 2005 with 57,000 miles on it.  The engine finally gave out a few months ago with 350,000 miles on it.  BY FAR the best car I have ever owned.  At that point I decided I was going to try and find me a nicer Gen 2 with the six cylinder and the LL Bean trim.  I didn't really have anything else I could trust to drive, so I was kind of in a pickle.

Great news on the '02 - I love mine, that engine has power to burn.  And total agreement on your '96 - our stable includes a '95 2.2 MT that I thought I was buying for parts about ten years ago; on the drive home I realized there was nothing wrong with it that a CV axle, a tailpipe, and a window crank wouldn't fix.  And of all our cars, that's the one that's goddamn unstoppable - it isn't a daily driver these days, but a backup that we know we can walk out to in the middle of winter, -30, not plugged in, hasn't been started in months - and it'll just start and run.