Jump to content
Ultimate Subaru Message Board

Updated oddcomp's MS n' EDIS fuel/DIS


Guest shadow
 Share

Recommended Posts

i have a vague idea of what all this does, but it certainly sounds badass. im thinking you would use this to add more fuel, so you can add more boost, and reduce detonation by adjusting when the spark fires. thats certainly up my road :brow:

 

DOH! :banana:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if i wanted to just add more fuel

 

a 5th injector setup would have been easier

this route i can run nice and rich on boost

and then get it to lean out for good economy on cruise

plus get rid of the maf sensor and all the associated problems that the stock ecu has when a few changes are added to the system

 

and no more spark scatter from the disty bouncing around and the belts stretching out ect

 

its nice to be able to say look see it does work :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

heres my stupid question of the day:

 

would you prevent detonation by making the spark fire after the piston reaches TDC in the compression stroke? is that called retarding the timing? the flip side would be advancing it when putzing around town to increase economy? if not, what happens?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no apon first ping of detonation a knocksensing setup for the edis would retard any other ignition events by x amount of degree's

untill the ping is gone when its gone after a certain time it automatically re advances the timing to where its supposed to be

 

in the end i willl have 2 stage knock control on will retard the timing the other will bring down the boost a few psi

the faser a eninge turn the sooner the mixture has to be ignited before the piston reaches tdc to ensure all of it is burned and then the heated gas/expanding gas created from that burn is highest right as the piston just start going down after tdc.. if that makes any sense this is type at 3:30 am during a bathroom trip with no glasses half awake :)

so to retartd teh timing means that instead of firing the plugs 20 deg at tdc after the retard.. it would fire like 15-10-5 epending on how far it needed to go to stop the ping

 

 

ping /detonation is actually the caused by the fuel/air mix being ignited and pushing the piston and rod assembly down as its still trying to reach tdc common causes are not enough fuel.. timing to advanced . too much boost..sorta related to not enough fuel.. at time also to much boost = high intake air temps wich when compined with the hi temps in the cylinder can make teh mix ignite by itself "think diesel" just at the wrong time

oh i almost forgot.. cheap or crappy gas with low octane will cause knock

imyself run cheap low octane gas at 10 psi.. can't afford other

 

also carbon buildup in the heads will cuse detonation so will sharp edges..

in the event of a ignition related knock the timing retard ill fix it

booost related the bost reduction setup will cure that

 

 

so if i have not confused teh hell out of you .. any more questions?? :)

 

so the short version is

advanced it fires way before tdc to make sure all of its ignited for best power

retarded it fires closer to tdc.. it might not all get ignited in time to make alot of power but at least the motor will not eat rods and pistons.. not pretty

also running to much retard makes the motor run hot

 

ok before i totally kill this thread bak to bed

anyne thinks i missed something feel free to correct me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yay more updates

now 500 ish miles on edis

found out my fuel pressure regulator vacum signal line has been off.. for a long time i would guess... since i think i know when i accidently knocked it off..

oops

 

had it running on full ms control..today fuel and ignition. couldn't tune tho

found out my tps is prolly shot so ms and stock suby ecu think i am at wide open all the time grrr

 

off to the yards in the morning

 

other nifty stuff

someone did alot of code update to the ms unit

 

thing slike a larger 12x12 ignition map <if you have done your homework you know what i am talking about :)

they also have a 12x12 fuel map almost done more w00tness

 

found a way to do knock sensing on the msnedis system i iwll be using the knock indicator output of my apc box to trigger teh ms knock retard function

so a dual boost and ignition based knock control

 

now inputs for a exhaust gas temp probe into teh ms hardware and software right now its just datalogging only but even thats useful

 

intake air temp timing retard adjustable to retard 1 deg after x amount of air intake temp increase anotehr knock fighting thing

 

a few customizable outputs to control such things as.. say water sprays.. or c02 onto a intercooler

or fans

or nitrous

and many... many more things i forget but will re read and prolly add to this list of "upgrades"

and this is all on the stock ms hardware and ms2 is right around the corner

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and for us EJ guys, it appears that we can use our inbuilt crank angle sensor to work with MS to do timing/spark, instead of trying to work in EDIS. I'm not sure exactly, it doesn't specifiy... and I haven't read into it too much, but it appears that it has been mentioned as an input for spark triggering.

 

anybody wanting to drop in that EJ257 motor and have a programmable controller now?

 

:drunk:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i just actually looked it up but the edis system runs a .059 gap ... wow

 

and here i was running the stock suby gap of .045

but i think i will try shadows suggestion and go .050 maybe .055 ish since i am boosted i hate to blow my spark out under boost

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lets not forget those carby guys can easy swap ovr to injection

to improve throttle response and milage with the side effect of a few more ponies :brow:

 

now for the good news i must thank shadow for his help hell.. he did all the brain work and if not for his help on msn today i would not be able to say

 

that the wagon now runs full megasquirt fuel injection and the edis system

not one aspect of my engine is under subaru control !

now that the hard part of getting it started and idleing

now to clean up all the temporary wiring i have all over the engine right now

make brackets for the coil pack and edis module and apc box

 

then its off to drive and tune

 

maybe this will help generate more interest in shadows parts now that everything runs

thanks shadow

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

So, I've got my MS built and am preparing to wire it into the Brat.

 

Words of advice to folks thinking about MSn'EDIS:

 

When building the MS, use sockets for all the IC's a few of them are really easily fried by the heat of a soldering iron. I spent hours trouble shooting and replacing components until I realized one of my ICs was cooked. Sockets are cheap, my time is not....

 

Buy, build and use the relay board. It makes wiring super clean and easy and prevents the accidental damage of the MS or other components...

 

Pay really close attention to every little component and follow the directions to the letter, it's really easy to reverse something or swap parts and it is a PITA to figure out whats wrong down the line...

 

And for those of you who are running OSX on a mac or Linux, there is a great GUI tuning program called Megatunix which I have managed to get running on my iBook. It's an X-windows program that runs under X11 on Mac OSX...You do need to do some unix compiling but it's doable and you don't need a windows pc (yeaaa!!)

 

I thought this was all very overwhelming when I started looking into it but having made it this far I can say, it's not too much if you have a little patience and a lot of desire.

 

garner

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Torxxx,

 

You can do spark only with a nifty device called Mega Jolt Light Junior which operates the Ford EDIS system and provides full timing control and programable advance curves etc....Check out this site...

 

http://picasso.org/mjlj/?q=

 

Would work fine and provide some improvement I'm sure over the stock mechanical disty with vacuum advance...

 

Personally, I'd swap to MPFI and do the MSn'EDIS route, then you can pitch the MPFI computer in the trash and have full control over spark and fuel. If you are one of those Carb lovers though, the MJLJ would be a big improvement.

 

Odd you should mention it actually, when I didn't know spark control was possible with the MSn'EDIS so I built an MS and a MJLJ. Now I have a perfectly good MJLJ unit just sitting on my bench....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

doooood,

 

I NEED MAPS (or atleast your REQ_FUEL) I'm ready to start trying to start running MS & S extra but have no idea how to map fuel. I have the spark figured out well enough but I'm clueless about fuel.

 

I'll help out with documention once I actually can say I know what I'm doing (sort of).

 

email me

 

garner

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the help i need with documentation is someone who can sit down with me and dechiper what i am saying in intelligent speak

not my run on sentances <wich is how my mind works it jsut goes and goes and goes>

My offer still stands. And, hey!, I am used to working with kindergarteners! :grin:

 

"Will work for maps."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hehehe

cool deal

but might be easier to get together over some beer and pizza and lots of papers instead of pm tag whatcha think

plus being able to see what i did might help as well

 

after i get it back on the road i will

get the newest code loaded and then get the maps reset

and make em available

 

i wonder if i should start a dyno collection fun like sa 1$ from who ever want to controbute

to allow me to pay for a few hours at a dyno shop and then we all have almsot perfect tuned maps to start with ... just a idea

 

so anyone want to contribute?

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should be passing through your area in the next week or so. Gotta score some parts once I get paid. (Been working split double shifts for min wage... think I deserve a toy or two!) Pizza and whatnot sounds good to me.

 

So, are you close to back on the road? What's left? And don't say peddle box... I pulled one of those in 15 minutes the other day.

 

And what about using the 1/4-mile dyno? Any strips/vacant runways your way?

 

BTW, my next toy after this trip will be MS... I swear!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pedal box is in..

its the dam pin that runs and hangs all teh peddle's

motor mount nuts

trany mount bolts

a few belhousing bolts

drop spider intake on

re wire ms sice i had to cut the harness to get the clutch cable in the firewall

grrr

just minnor junk

needing a few bux and money

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Clayton I volunteered too don't forget and if you want to you can put it all in a Email and just email it all to me or we could IM each other when your awake and I am on lol

 

and don't worry if it's something really important I do use punctuation I swear! I am sorta like you clayton things come out and there is no stopping me hahaha but still if you want to come down here for a day like say during like the sunday or monday after christmas we could try to get some pizza's from a good source for a good deal and have a 6 pack or so of beer and we could nail it down and have it up in no time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

actually russ you would have a better chance of passing

just tie the ms into the wires under the dash in place of the stock ecu

then it alllll loook nice and stock

and you can tune the hell out of it just to pass emmissions

thats what alot of ,ca people do on the msefi forum

 

so yeah you should be able to see mine run.. was gonna do it out of todays paycheck but garnishment and rent and stuff yay a whole 93 bux to last 2 weeks for food and stuff so no suby this time it looks like

 

yes i can build things and they do work but well ask jerry i am slow mostly due to all the drama that goes on here

no i did not ferget you jason sunday's ain't all that good for me remeber :<

 

and yes shadow is the one who helped me get the dam thing running in the first place but i think i mentioned that a few times on this thread hehe

now shadow has to work on a 12x12 dual table fuel map that i can import into ms

 

lol the guy who has been doing all the code building for ms has been getting on me aboout my car not running

he needs me to test stuff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...