Rear cv axle questions and compatibility, and sources for remaned ones

[bratlife]

Hello all,

So after decades of Subaru's, I've finally got my first REAR cv axle going out. 

First things first, is this at least as close to as easy as swapping out the front cv axles? Any good tutorials out there? Pretty sure these have never been swapped out, so that means they've got more than 330k miles on them.

This is for a 90 Loyale, but I have an 85 brat that I need to rebuild the motor on, so I could take one of those if it would fit. Should that have the same length and number of splines etc?

I've been trying to get a hold of that place in Aurora, Colorado that rebuilds them and sells real good quality remans, maybe called fw enterprises or MWE axles? But seems like they're not around anymore. Are there any other places to get good remaned ones? 

Thanks a bunch, I really appreciate any thoughts any of y'all have on any of this 

 

[moosens]

Please do post back any results.

As you mentioned I’m also starting to see rear axles that need attention. And in 40 or so years of running Subarus I also have never had a rear axle issue. 
 

[idosubaru]

23 hours ago, bratlife said:

Hello all,

So after decades of Subaru's, I've finally got my first REAR cv axle going out. 

First things first, is this at least as close to as easy as swapping out the front cv axles? Any good tutorials out there? Pretty sure these have never been swapped out, so that means they've got more than 330k miles on them.

This is for a 90 Loyale, but I have an 85 brat that I need to rebuild the motor on, so I could take one of those if it would fit. Should that have the same length and number of splines etc?

I've been trying to get a hold of that place in Aurora, Colorado that rebuilds them and sells real good quality remans, maybe called fw enterprises or MWE axles? But seems like they're not around anymore. Are there any other places to get good remaned ones? 

Thanks a bunch, I really appreciate any thoughts any of y'all have on any of this 

 

It's been awhile but worst case you remove the 3 diff hanger bolts, let it hang down and knock the pins out of the axles.I think I've removed them by just knocking the pins out and sliding them off but that might have been on a lifted one or different configuration. 

What do you mean "going out"?

I'd mark both axles Left/Right, clean/regrease all the joints, then swap sides.  Install the left axle on the right and right axle on the left.

Alternately you can just regrease one axle or just swap them side to side.

But that is a gob tons of miles!  Is that on the original engine and original trans?

[Rupart]

hi,  just to start, no the loyale axles are not the same as brat, the end joints are not either.  i am not certain the rear Assemblies for brat are the same as my 84 gl wagon but i think they are. i have the 84 and also an 88 rx the rear axles do not swap. the 84 has doj on both ends of each axle,, the joints are alike,, but are not the same as the doj on the 88 axle,, the 84 doj is shorter ( the cup is not as deep as the 88 doj..  the 88 assembly has a doj on inner end and a fixed cv joint at the outside end,, these rx are same as loyale.. the loyale axles are too long to fit on the 84,, however the splines are the same on both ends of the joints of both vehicles.. i can't tell you anything about where to get remans,, but if your's are not clacking or knocking , get some boot kits and regrease, and reboot them..  the outside joint on the loyale type axle is not meant to be removed,, they can be hammered off but i would not, just flush it out and regrease then boot,,  this must be done before you reassemble the inner joint because you have to slide the boot all the way down the shaft and cannot be done with the inside joint in place.  my 84 has doj's on both ends, these are meant to be disassembled and can be done 1 or both , either end first.  i suggest both since it is a job taking them off the car.  i did have to disconnect the rear diff so it could be moved some,, put 1 axle back in , then push the diff over to collapse the joints, then install the other side,, then rebolt the diff in place. hope this helps some.

oh , just in case you did not know, the retainer pin hole in the joints and the axles will only align in 1 place,,, it looks like it aligns from either of 2 spots, don't be fooled!! one will let you start the pin but will not go all the way through,, pull it back off , turn it 180 and reinstall it, the pin goes all the way through.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Rupart
forgot to add

[bratlife]

Thanks a bunch for the responses! I have a few questions about some of that, listed below...

-So are you saying that all you have to do to remove the rear axles, is drop the diff, punch both roll pins out, and wiggle it out? That would be nice, as I'm a little scared to unbolt the struts, cause I put those Honda fronts on the rear a long time ago (read a tutorial on here about which ones to use and how to do that a long time ago) to beef up the rear suspension. But it was virtually impossible to compress them enough to get them installed and I don't have access to that shop or tools right now and I'm worried I wouldn't be able to get them back on.

-I don't think I can rebuild this cv just with grease and a new boot (I've done that on a front cv before) but it's not drivable as is, because the axle is so bad

-Is it possible to remove the axle and just drive it as a front wheel drive? I know the fronts hold the whole knuckle in place, but can you just remove the rears? It's got the older tranny still so NOT an AWD. After looking closer, since there’s a roll pin on both sides of the axle, instead of just the inside like the front cv’s have, I assume the outside ends stay in the hub and hood the wheels bearings in place etc, so you can drive it just as a front wheel drive car without the rear axles, right? 

-No it’s not original engine, I swapped it to an EJ, hence why it’s worth whatever it takes to keep this thing on the road. My brat has over 300k as well haha, that still has an EA81 in it, but I put a new (old) one in there and have swapped two trannys in that one, once to upgrade to the 5 speed dual range

Let me know what y'all think about these questions, thanks a bunch!

*Edited a couple things after looking under the car again and thinking about it 

Edited September 29, 2023 by bratlife

[bratlife]

So, just to clarify, all older (pre all wheel drive) 4wd subarus should function just fine as a 2wd (front wheel) car no problem with the rear cv axles removed right? 

Or am I missing something embarrassingly obvious? 😬

[Rupart]

hi, you can run the loyale in 2wd with both rear axle assemblies removed. yes, drive out the pins on both ends, and they should slip off the diff splines and the wheel drive splines,,, if you let the diff down.  ( i take the moustache bar loose at the ends, it makes a good handle to move the diff too).  the nose bushing on the diff needs to disconnect too,, i don't think it necessary to take the shocks off.  obviously need to have the drive shaft back in place when finished if you took the rear flange off the diff  to get enough movement to get the axles out.

[idosubaru]

On 9/29/2023 at 3:46 PM, bratlife said:

So, just to clarify, all older (pre all wheel drive) 4wd subarus should function just fine as a 2wd (front wheel) car no problem with the rear cv axles removed right? 

Or am I missing something embarrassingly obvious? 😬

No, not "all".  But yeah on a manual trans Brat, just put it in 4WD and remove both rear axles and you're golden, you can drive it indefinitely like that. 

[bratlife]

Ok thanks, I'm not sure why you would put it in 4WD though? without the rear axles wouldn't you just drive it as normal in front wheel drive like we do 90% of the time? just without the option to shift into 4wd since there wouldn't be any rear axles for that. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

Also, this is on a Loyale, not on a Brat. I only mentioned the Brat as a potential donor of a functioning rear axle, but I was informed above that those are different for these vehicles. 

[bratlife]

Sooo, thanks to all your tips, everything has come out pretty easy. I dropped the diff by unbolting the hole mustache as recommended here, and no problem, on the insides coming off the diff and the first axle pulled right off the splines coming out of the wheel, but the other side won't budge. Any tips? I put a torch on it and have been tapping all around it with the mini sledge, but nothing, no movement at all. And you can't really get in there to do anything about it. You can't pry on it or anything ya know.

So, couple questions:

-Any other tips for freeing the outer end? when the rest of the axle is just hanging there.

-And just to clarify, it is fine to drive around with just the splines sticking out of the wheel assembly? the bearings can't get loose or anything right? tried attaching a photo of this, how it looks now, if the photo works, is that cool to drive with it like that?

Thanks a bunch for all the help!

[Rupart]

hi, yes it's ok to run the wheel like your pic shows.  on getting the other side off, squirt some pb penetrant in the pin hole so it can soak into the splines, sometimes they can be Very difficult. since the pin is out and the joint needs rebuilt you might try and tap on the edge of the bell end of the joint ( as if trying to knock it on instead of off) this is only to get it to move a bit,  then more penetrant and taping on it in the off direction.  don't hammer real hard on things , you could damage the wheel bearing , and the cv joint bearings & races ,, or both!   and the rear axles are hard to come by. good luck on it,  it's just rusty splines .

[el_freddo]

The reason why you drive in 4wd without the rear drive shafts in is because the tail shaft isn’t spinning when driving without the driveshafts fitted. 

This could potentially allow the rear output seal to leak if the tailshaft isn’t spinning. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[bratlife]

Thanks again for the replies,

I ended up just putting the outer end of the cv back on the spines with the roll pin in it just to be safe cause I hadn't heard back yet I wanted to test drive it, but its good to know its fine like that. And I just reattached the drivers side axle that I could get the outer off, cause it seemed like that axle is actually fine, it was just the passenger. 

Problem now is it seems like the wheel bearing is going out on that wheel. I assume I let the cv axle get too bad and it messed up the bearing. 

I've never done a rear wheel bearing on these, how bad is that? I think I actually have new bearings for it with my parts, but do you need a press or any special tools or tricks or anything?

[bratlife]

7 hours ago, el_freddo said:

The reason why you drive in 4wd without the rear drive shafts in is because the tail shaft isn’t spinning when driving without the driveshafts fitted. 

This could potentially allow the rear output seal to leak if the tailshaft isn’t spinning. 

Cheers 

Bennie

Cool thanks, I can't say I totally understand that still haha, but I don't need to, I just need to know WHAT I'm supposed to do, not WHY I'm supposed to do it hahaha, I just gotta get the other side out then, so its all freed up. But if I can't get the wheel bearing sorted in a timely manner non of that really matters unfortunately as I just need a car back on the road asap

[el_freddo]

No worries. 

To get the wheel bearings replaced/done. You can do them without removing the swing arms or needing a press. 

You will need to remove the stuck CV cup to access the retainer nut that holds the bearing outer casing in place. You will also need to either make or buy a tool that can remove that retainer nut. Or  use a punch to tap to out - not easy to do without distorting the nut edges/flange. 

I made a tool that slots into the four slot spots once the stub axle is removed. I hammer this out with a block of hardwood or a soft hammer. Then the tool sides into the hub and located on the four slots and allows me to get a big shifter onto it to lever the nut off. 

Then I use an old solid tow ball with the stub/thread cut off to hammer out the outer bearing casing. I also use it to hammer the new casing in but I usually do this much more gently and stop once it’s located on the retainer tab. 

Pack the bearings with grease, fit in place, fit the new seals and refit the retainer nut and stake it. Then hammer the stub axle back in, the outer bearing may need the hub to be fitted with the castlated nut to push it in properly - I can’t remember how I did this bit. 

Put the cone washer, concave washer and castlated nut on and tighten up stupidly tight. 

That’s basically it. It’s the setting up on Jack stands and removing the castlated nut that I find to be the painful bit that takes the most motivation from me. 

I hope this helps. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Ionstorm66]

On 10/3/2023 at 12:20 PM, bratlife said:

Cool thanks, I can't say I totally understand that still haha, but I don't need to, I just need to know WHAT I'm supposed to do, not WHY I'm supposed to do it hahaha, I just gotta get the other side out then, so its all freed up. But if I can't get the wheel bearing sorted in a timely manner non of that really matters unfortunately as I just need a car back on the road asap

you can drive a long long time with a bad rear wheel bearing. I had one strip the threads holding the nut in, and ran it for 20k+ miles before getting a new control arm.

 

Also you just need a giant hammer to get the axle out. Ive hit the axles so hard the car slides to get them out.

[idosubaru]

Sorry - you are correct if it's FWD trans.  If so, then just leave it.  There's other common Subaru transmissions at this time that are different and you can't do that. 

*** Maybe your axle is fine and what you thought was the axle was actually the wheel bearing?  That's probably more likely than the bad CV damaging the bearing. 

If you're in a rust prone area the exposed stubs could get rusty - I'd try to cover them with an outer cup, copious grease, or some other protective measure. 

What kind of torch are you using? Heat soak it longer or get a dual fuel torch if you're just using single fuel like propane. Sometimes you want it to heat up quickly, not just heat up. A large CV joint and single fuel small torch I could see being an issue.