czny Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 This winter has been cold enough to kill batteries and my neighbor's 2004 OB, cold weather model by the VIN, didn't have a block heater. One day he contacts me about his car 'cause it wouldn't start - just cranks & cranks with no sound of compression. No huffing noises. 140k miles on it with no apparent service history. I pulled the engine to determine if it has a broken or stretched timing belt & bent valves. Pulled it down to short block today & indeed it had bent valves in both heads AND a stretched timing belt with cracks on the outside and a leaking tensioner. Someone had changed the head gaskets only, Felpro MLS Permatorques. 3 of the cylinder bores appeared very dry while L rear cyl had been burning oil. Yes, this has the early PZEV pistons with the horseshoe shaped trench in them. Has anyone here used ej pistons such as these in an ej259 block with 259 heads? https://www.ebay.com/itm/373015758427 My neighbor foolishly used diesel 15w-40 oil in his engine last year - hope the R&M brgs didn't suffer for it.I'll check out the rods while the oil pan is off for resealing. Found this old thread while searching for an answer: Help! EJ251 heads on EH259? - 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX - Ultimate Subaru Message Board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 (edited) OK. Let's ask this in a different way. Does anyone here, possibly with engine machinist experience, think the valve angles of all SOHC heads of these MYs, Ej259 included, are the same? I know the valve sizes are the same in these SOHC heads for these years, 2000 to 2005, so interference would be fine there. Edited February 21 by czny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 (edited) Looks like an answer here: https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/2005-vs-2005-pzev-cylinder-head-valve-angle.537318/ All the original ej259 pistons are badly carboned up, especially #4 which was so bad that it had to be beaten out. No wonder this engine had no compression... Some constructive input would be helpful here. Edited February 22 by czny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 Read the last post. https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/pzev-ej259-to-ej203-swap.336497/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 While these 2005 pistons are most like the original ones, https://www.amazon.com/DNJ-Piston-2005-2005-Subaru-Outback/dp/B00TM25ZSE/ref=pd_ybh_a_d_sccl_7/137-0407383-1406803?pd_rd_w=QPGdW&content-id=amzn1.sym.67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_p=67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_r=58PM5VRME6WGQNSZ6QJD&pd_rd_wg=0Qlch&pd_rd_r=7f9575e7-966f-43b1-8c20-cfd734b13365&pd_rd_i=B00TM25ZSE&th=1 I opted to get these because they are listed for 2004 MY EJ259 engines https://www.ebay.com/itm/134624910093 I had already ordered a set of std NPR rings for the old pistons, BUT, the old ones had collapsed skirts, carbon stuck oil rings, carboned up oil return holes and valve hit damages on all the pistons. The old ones would've had high oil consumption, cold piston slap and been a real PITA to recondition in general. Had the heads resurfaced to the head height limit leaving some spitting in non critical places - to use with 642 OEM gaskets. #4 rod brg was too loose compared to other 3 ones, SO, case halves will have to come apart to refresh the R&M brgs and polish the crank. #4 rod big end mikes out as OK - round and on size at 2.165" in 3 places. New OEM timing belt, tensioner & idlers, oil pump, water pump & heads gskts are already here. Money is really tight on this repair so a new, or used, short block was not an option This engine, in fact the whole car, has been driven into the ground. Whatever else needs repair is just gonna have to wait. Pics will follow later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Good luck with this one. Old days you’d have several folks chiming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I’ll chime in on GD’s behalf. Burn it. Burn it to the ground and get some old school GM gear to drive into the Armageddon. Ok, maybe I lathered that on a bit thick but that’s kind of how I read GD rolling. Cheers Bennie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 14 hours ago, moosens said: Good luck with this one. Old days you’d have several folks chiming in. The owner has already been told that he made a really bad decision on this one. How can anyone not hear the sound, and feel the engine cutting out, with valves hitting pistons, and keep driving it?!!! 2 hours ago, el_freddo said: I’ll chime in on GD’s behalf. Burn it. Burn it to the ground and get some old school GM gear to drive into the Armageddon. Ok, maybe I lathered that on a bit thick but that’s kind of how I read GD rolling. Cheers Bennie He's had 2 GM vehicles and destroyed those too! Slow motion train wreck... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 (edited) https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/183806-on-the-spot-endurance-engineering/ Although this car owner's abilities aren't up to this level, some of his repairs came close to it. NOT! "Just in time racing" Just kidding. Edited February 26 by czny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 (edited) Found a lot of things damaged during tear down. Timing belt was stretched & cracked. TB tensioner was leaking fluid. Both cyl heads had bent exhaust valves - timing marks hadn't been lined up correctly to fudge the stretched belt problem I suppose. All pistons had carboned up oil control rings and stuck 2nd rings. #4 piston skirt was collapsed by .002" and badly scored. #4 rod brg had spalled. All main brgs were badly speckled from dirty oil. Driver side cam had welded metal to center aluminum cam journal ruining both head and cam. This caused by lack of oil AND the guy kept driving with valve and piston hitting, probably flexing the cam beyond normal. A real mess. This is your engine. This is your engine on unchanged oil. ANY QUESTIONS? https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6250/7ZFYjA.jpg Edited March 14 by czny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just a little JB Weld and wrap it with a piece from a soda can and you’re good to go. Much to say. But no need. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 (edited) Since then, engine is complete and installed. Ran into problems at 280 miles with code P0157, bank 2 sensor 2 O2. O2 sensor was un-burned fuel fouled with soot. Soot was coming out the tailpipe too. #2 cyl plug wire was initially way out of spec at 47k ohms vs other 3 wires at 10-11k ohms. After throwing the code it read nearly 37 Meg! Replaced the offending plug wire with a new one from an RA closeout set and the O2 with a Denso 234-4446 sensor. That closeout set wasn't the best deal at $11.51. 3 wires at 47k & only one at 11k ohms. Only needed to match all 4 wire resistances to make things right. Re-adjusted all valves as well. Details of the build. Plastigauged the crank main & rod brgs: .0015" clearance on all 5 mains, .001 clearance on all 4 rods. Found a reman LH cyl head on fleabay for $380 but had to pay a core charge too The seller says this in fine print in the description, BUT, doesn't mention how much! $180! Had RH cyl head resurfaced & lapped in new valves. 642 head gaskets with new OEM head bolts. After seeing how many other "shortcuts" the previous owner had done I really didn't trust the head bolts, oil pump, water pump, etc. Crank condition before(printed pic with new rod brgs) And after polishing Rod journal sizes 2.046". These dimensions were checked with a Starrett No 436 2 to 3 inch mike. Mike was checked for accuracy with gage blocks. Main journal sizes 2.362" Barrel stove heating and loving pesky treat begger Blue. More to follow. Had to do searches at another forum to get some answers about ej259 engine specifics and problems. Edited April 1 by czny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 Top view of ej259 compared to DNJ715 pistons. EJ259 piston has flat top around intake eyebrows(L) and dish on exhaust side(R). Exhaust "eyebrows" appear to further out to accommodate variable valve timing(?) heads 2006-2011. From what was found about these 2004-5 ej259 engines for California AND NY, this was an early attempt SULEV using non-AVLS P25 and Z25P heads. Ej259 piston on left with piston pin connecting it to DNJ715 decked 0.3 mm piston. That's 0.3 mm below block deck. Here you can see the exhaust valves hit marks on #1 piston crown. As the timing belt continued to stretch, and skip cog teeth, the hit marks moved outward until engine finally had no compression to run. Here you can see that the pistons are slightly below the block deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 About 250 miles after getting this OB running, alternator belt squeal made itself known at engine startup and beginning of turns. Found that the PS pump elbow o-rings had hardened allowing air to be sucked in. Found metric o-rings of 13mm ID x 1.5mm CS at my local Ace Hardware for $0.65 each! Added a very small bead of Loctite 517 flange sealant to face of elbow just above top o-ring groove to make sure no air gets in. No more squeal! Found that driver side crankcase breather hose connector on H4 airbox had cracked. Tried JB quickweld but that didn't hold. 30 M1 carbine brass is just right OD to fit inside this plastic nub and GOOP plastic weld bonds well with airbox. Saved a trip to find a replacement H4 California only airbox! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Looks good. Glad to know the carbine brass works if that should happen. I know you are happiy with the three cats and 5 O2 sensors.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 (edited) 11 hours ago, ocei77 said: Looks good. Glad to know the carbine brass works if that should happen. I know you are happiy with the three cats and 5 O2 sensors.3 I don't HAVE to be happy with the extra cats and O2s, but my neighbor does. It was his choice to buy this boat(a hole in the water into which you pour your money). He didn't have anyone to advise him against it. He bought it from a couple who moved from Calif to Montana. I think they were trying to unload the the boat. They knew it had high mileage problems. I told him that if he didn't change the oil & filter at 3000 miles I would never touch it again. That would be at 250K miles. Oh, yeah. He misstated the mileage on the odometer. He said 140K where it actually was 246K miles. Didn't find that out until battery was connected again. It does run well now with good power and mileage appears to be good, which was his major concern(?!?) Edited April 5 by czny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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