New wheels don't clear my front brake calipers - Spacers on the way - Questions! 91 Loyale

[TD90_nw]

Hey y'all.

I just recently purchased some new to me wheels/tires from a gentleman on fb marketplace.  He claims they are oem brat wheels and they seem to be.  I drive a 91 loyale for reference.  My issue is that they seem to be hitting my front brake calipers and I was under the impression that they should bolt up and work no issues.  I ended up purchasing some wheel spacers to hopefully remedy the issue and was hoping for some advice and opinions.  Should the spacers I ordered fit and bolt right up no issues?  Will it remedy my problem?  Is there a better fix I should be aiming towards?  Thanks for all the help.  The information and group of fine individuals on this forum has helped me out tremendously learning about these vehicles.  Please let me know if you need more info.

Here are the specs.  

4x140 Wheel Spacer

Thickness: 3/4"

Lug Nuts: : 12x1.25

Studs : : 12x1.25

 

-TD

[czny]

There are old threads on USMB for this problem. Early drum brake wheels just don't have the proper backspacing curve for disc brakes.

Obviously.

Hope you didn't pay much for those fb "bargains". Peugeot 505 wheels have the same bolt pattern as Subaru EA cars - 4x140 mm.

New Peugot 505 alloys

OR, you could do a jy search for Mazda B2200 six lug wheels, drill 2 more holes and open up the center hole with a die grinder & burr to fit.

Both the Peugeot and Mazda wheels are 14 x 6 inch. AND, have the backspacing for disc brakes. Much easier to find tires for.

Edited Wednesday at 09:15 AM by czny

[czny]

 

[el_freddo]

They’re not just rims from drum brake era vehicles - they’re an early EA81/MY rim and they don’t clear the front calipers of the L series. 

These probably came from the models with solid front discs. They have a curved hub and sunraysia star pattern are the bit with the curve in them. The L series ones are flat with a sharp curve before it joins the rim. 

I’m unsure if the vented front disc MY/EA81 sunraysia rims have that same style bend in the star like the L series units. I’d have to look at a set (have them out the back on a 1984 Leone). 

Spacers might clear the front calipers but they’re not an ideal solution in my book.

I hope this helps. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[czny]

Always wondered if it was that Subaru production kept using the drum brake wheels until ea81 production really got going by mounting only the solid rotor front disc brakes.

In other words, lesser curve spokes until advent of vented front discs then sharper curve spokes.

Do a search for the 6 lug conversions on Goggle OP. You might find more there in early discussions.

Edited Wednesday at 04:15 PM by czny

[TD90_nw]

Little update. Sadly the only reason I wanted to seek out a set of wheels was because one of my 14x6 scorpion style wheels got a crack.  I didn't feel safe driving on it after inspection and to get back on the road asap buying a used set of wheels/tires from someone seemed like the quickest fix to get my car back on the road.  I would like to use the nicer wheels I have as you guys stated I'm able to run bigger and nicer tires/more selection. I have some 27.5 grabber all terrains and don't personally enjoy the look of the little 13 inch pizza cutter wheels/tires.  

 

The brat wheels/tires were $200 and the tires are basically new still.  I had to grind my caliper the slightest bit in order to fit the larger 14x6 wheels only up front about 1/8th of an inch down.  I imagine I could do the same thing and grind a bit more but that doesn't seem smart or safe imo.  Granted I don't think a spacer is much better but I feel like its my best option. 

Spacers still on the way. I got a set coming just for the front.  The rears clear no problem.  Fronts just need a tiny bit more clearance.  

My wheel that cracked is steel and I plan on meeting up with a buddy who is much more mechanically inclinded that myself.  He said he is willing to try to grind and weld the crack.  Who knows if the wheel will ever be balanced again after.  Thank you guys again for all the information/help!

Edited Wednesday at 06:24 PM by TD90_nw
typo

[czny]

Have that scorpion wheel abrasive blasted to remove powder  coat, then have all weld beads TIG welded. If there's one crack there could be more developing.

Then new powder coat, perhaps all of them(?)

 

[Numbchux]

From the old 4X140 wheels page hosted by McBrat at https://www.indysworld.com/subaru/gallery/wheels/wheels.html

[TD90_nw]

2 hours ago, Numbchux said:

From the old 4X140 wheels page hosted by McBrat at https://www.indysworld.com/subaru/gallery/wheels/wheels.html

Wow this is awesome. I really appreciate old websites like that, where all the links still work!

[el_freddo]

What are these scorpion rims you’re talking about? We’ve got these original scorpion rims formally made by Scorpion Subaru in Queensland I believe: 

 

There was a copy done a few years back that is sort of the same but not at the same time, not made by the original company as they’re not around anymore. I’ve heard of cracking occurring on the later units around or near the bolt holes.  

Cheers 

Bennie

Edited Thursday at 11:32 AM by el_freddo
Image embedding…

[TD90_nw]

5 hours ago, el_freddo said:

What are these scorpion rims you’re talking about? We’ve got these original scorpion rims formally made by Scorpion Subaru in Queensland I believe: 

 

There was a copy done a few years back that is sort of the same but not at the same time, not made by the original company as they’re not around anymore. I’ve heard of cracking occurring on the later units around or near the bolt holes.  

Cheers 

Bennie

Here is a picture of the exact wheels I have. 14x6 but I cant quite remember the offset measurements.  When I purchased them it stated that they came off a brumby in Australia so that makes a lot of sense.  They've been a pain in the rump roast to find and I've only had my set of 4.  I would love to have another 1 or 2 to replace my cracked wheel and have a full size spare. 

I also included a picture of my nasty cracked wheel for reference.  I honestly dunno how it even happened.  Maybe a pot hole on my work commute?

Edited Thursday at 05:07 PM by TD90_nw

[czny]

You could have it TIG welded after blasting off the powder coat, BUT, to be sure there aren't any stress risers after welding it should be shotpeened.,

That crack has been working for quite awhile.

Ask Bennie to put the word out for wheels, maybe(?)

[Numbchux]

18 hours ago, TD90_nw said:

Wow this is awesome. I really appreciate old websites like that, where all the links still work!

Yep, lots of good information

That page is included in this whole "Subaru of the 80s" page. https://www.indysworld.com/subaru/index.html

Check the "Original Ultimate Subaru Repair Manual" on there. Lots of good writeups there. I think this stuff is basically all 15-20 years old, but great place to start

[czny]

Another option for steel wheels to drill for 4 bolt pattern are 1991 Toyota 4X4 PU which have a flat center. Search the self serve yards in Spokane.

then you could go to 205/70R15 radial M+S tires. Any flat center 6 lug with large center hole will do it for you too.

Mazda B2200, Ford Courier, Chevy LUV,

New 91 Toyota 4x4 wheels

[el_freddo]

Wow that crack is nuts! And those are the copies. Here’s a close up of mine - you’ll notice the design difference! 

^ that’s my before and after shots of the freshen up these copped about three months ago for Subinats.

I can keep an eye out for a couple of rims over here if you want. The biggest issue is getting them to you without breaking the bank. 

I’d follow cnzy’s advice with the repair job. That crack surprises me and I wonder how it was created. The rusting tells you it was there for quite some time as cnzy said. Good thing you found it! 

Cheers 

Bennie

 

[czny]

My guess for that crack is that when the centers were formed, the stress from the deep backspacing puts extra leverage on the center.

The original Scorpion wheels have spokes welded to the wheel centerline.

The copies are built like a bowl with the edge of the bowl on the wheel centerline. The large "D" shaped holes add twisting around the center as the car rolls. Bad design.

That is why I keep pushing the notion to get used 6 lug wheels and drill 2 holes for 4 bolt 4 x 140 pattern. 6 x 5.5 inch pattern is 6 x 139.7mm which is close enough.

You'd be money ahead. el_freddo can't do this in Australia. We can if its done right. The new holes must be countersunk to match the lug nuts. 

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by czny