Seahag1978 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 My 1978 Brat is making a noise that sounds like a cross between a "jake brake", a card clothes pinned to the wheel of a bicycle (like you did as a little kid) and a machine-gun or a governor on a tractor. The noise is coming from the front end. It only does it under acceleration. It's quiet while coasting. The transmission shifts fine. Last night, we found the left front brake was seized, (prior to that the emergency brake was a tad sticky if left on for a while, but once it released it was ok). Today, I got two rebuilt calipers from King Kalipers in Peabody MA, (they had them on the shelf!?) Tonight we changed both front calipers and the brakes are fine now. The noise is still there. Could the seized brake cause some sort of damage to the axle? Does anyone know what could cause this type of noise? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Our local Subaru dealership has been totally useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Nuto 53 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 wheel bearing would usually always make that noise, so im gonna guess the outboard spindle is stripping in the hub.... try really really tightening the axel nut, if that solves the problem, take it apart and see if the splines are worn on the axel or the hub.... cv joint itself makes a distinct click noise wheelbearings usually a low rumble have heard of a few subes stripping out the splines and this might be the sound youre hearing.. maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru420 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 My 1978 Brat is making a noise that sounds like a cross between a "jake brake", a card clothes pinned to the wheel of a bicycle (like you did as a little kid) and a machine-gun or a governor on a tractor. The noise is coming from the front end. It only does it under acceleration. It's quiet while coasting. The transmission shifts fine. My 83 wagon makes, what I think is a similar noise, when Accelerating and esspecially while turning right. It's going "Clackitty clack clack" It's not so regular like I've heard when a CV goes bad. But I havent ruled that out yet. Any help from anybody about this topic would be appreciated my me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 wheel bearing would usually always make that noise, so im gonna guess the outboard spindle is stripping in the hub.... try really really tightening the axel nut, if that solves the problem, take it apart and see if the splines are worn on the axel or the hub.... cv joint itself makes a distinct click noise wheelbearings usually a low rumble have heard of a few subes stripping out the splines and this might be the sound youre hearing.. maybe I think that's the right track on this problem. This car belonged to a member of this board. On reading some archives here, I found a post where the previous owner said he changed wheel bearing and it was runnng hot. He was instructed to repack it with grease, I guess it didn't work and he said he was going to re-install it. Another odd thing, the nuts on the passenger side hub don't look anything like the driver's side hub? They kinda look jammed on. We are going to try your suggestion tonight and see. I think I understand the theory behind this test... by tightening it whatever tooth is left will grab? Now, does that mean a new axle? Where is a reliable source to get new... I understand rebuilts are not the greatest. I read some other archives that talked about a DOJ. It sounds like it could be it too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 for me whenever the DOJ has gone bad, it was quiet under acceleration, but jerked/made noise when coasting. (until it got real bad, then it jerked the whole car until the joint let loose totally) if the hub was stripped to the point where it was clicking, you could put your parking brake on, and put it in gear and try to drive. if it breaks free, then that's what it is. I thought Ed put new hubs on it as well.... I'd say outer CV is my first choice. (and welcome to the USMB!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 for me whenever the DOJ has gone bad, it was quiet under acceleration, but jerked/made noise when coasting. (until it got real bad, then it jerked the whole car until the joint let loose totally) if the hub was stripped to the point where it was clicking, you could put your parking brake on, and put it in gear and try to drive. if it breaks free, then that's what it is. I thought Ed put new hubs on it as well.... I'd say outer CV is my first choice. (and welcome to the USMB!) Thanks! I thought the hubs were new too. It's weird how the right doesn't match the left at all. The CV has a ripped boot and we thought that too... seems the CV is fine. something is definitely slipping somewhere. It's not the tranny... it shifts and responds fine, other than a sloppy shifter (that seemed normal to me, guess my other one was sloppy and I don't know better?!) It sounds like a baseball card in the spokes of a bicycle, while it's under load... it's constant... there is no loss of power, jerking, pulling or bucking... it's smooth, the noise is the only indication of a problem. The emergency brake holds the car while on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 I'm about ready to give up. I'm spending more on Tylenol than gas... my head hurts! We tried tightening the nut... the noise was still there. While it was apart, we checked the splines... all present and accounted for. The hub looks new. The CV looks ok. We checked the bearings they look ok. We tried driving it in 4WD, it drives fine... just the noise! I spent the day calling garages to repair the problem.... no one around here will touch it They all said "NO WAY!" One guy said, "I thought all those bad boys were gone!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Nuto 53 Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 if you jack and block the front end, can you feel any grinding/binding when turning the wheels by hand? is there any silvery dust accumulating on either end of the drive axels? can you feel it vibrate in the steering wheel when it makes that noise? maybe its an exhaust leak at the doughnut joint? is there any fluid in the transmission? doesnt seem like the clutch slipping would make a sound like that and not be either obviously slipping or stinking horribly. still could be a wheel bearing, but without going nuts and starting to replace stuff, i guess you might have to run it a bit longer till it exposes itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 if you jack and block the front end, can you feel any grinding/binding when turning the wheels by hand? No, turns freely. is there any silvery dust accumulating on either end of the drive axels? No, there was brake dust from the seized brake. can you feel it vibrate in the steering wheel when it makes that noise? No, steers ok maybe its an exhaust leak at the doughnut joint? I know there's an exhaust leak, could it make that much noise? is there any fluid in the transmission? Yes, that was my first guess... drove a Fiat from Mass. to NC after having a new engine installed... they never added the dope back in and it took that long to make itself known... doesnt seem like the clutch slipping would make a sound like that and not be either obviously slipping or stinking horribly. Clutch operates fine... no smell still could be a wheel bearing, but without going nuts and starting to replace stuff, i guess you might have to run it a bit longer till it exposes itself Giggle... Tim, said if he was in the country he'd drive the b****h til something dropped off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauregaardhooligan Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I'm gonna go with an exhaust leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 The new CV axle is in... thanks to erdrach's awesome directions, it took less than an hour... Thanks Ed! Now its making a new noise... a heavy metallic clang, like something is going to the top of its apex and falling down. It's squealing on a left turn too?! Any thoughts on this? Arrrggghhh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 i saw your brat in your photo album, what a great looking car! make sure the E-brake cable is properly free of the new axle you put in or else it could half-activate the caliper and cause that noise on the turn... the clanging is weird. does it do it when the car is still and in neutral, or when moving, or turning, stopping, etc? can you feel the clang or just hear it? jack up the front end again (block the rear wheels) and test the steering.. you might turn it on and put it in gear while jacked up but be very careful, stay out from under it and make sure the jacks and chocks are very secure. make sure your lugnuts are all properly tight (i missed that once ) you mentioned an odd hub on one side? that might haev something to do with it. check the cone washer and the curved washer under the axle nut. the curved washer should be marked OUT on one side. if it's not marked i think the concave side goes toward the cone washer. if the cone and curved washer are worn, change them with new ones. got enough grease in your bearings? good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 i saw your brat in your photo album, what a great looking car! make sure the E-brake cable is properly free of the new axle you put in or else it could half-activate the caliper and cause that noise on the turn... the clanging is weird. does it do it when the car is still and in neutral, or when moving, or turning, stopping, etc? can you feel the clang or just hear it? jack up the front end again (block the rear wheels) and test the steering.. you might turn it on and put it in gear while jacked up but be very careful, stay out from under it and make sure the jacks and chocks are very secure. make sure your lugnuts are all properly tight (i missed that once ) you mentioned an odd hub on one side? that might haev something to do with it. check the cone washer and the curved washer under the axle nut. the curved washer should be marked OUT on one side. if it's not marked i think the concave side goes toward the cone washer. if the cone and curved washer are worn, change them with new ones. got enough grease in your bearings? good luck! Thanks! It is great looking... too bad I can't drive it to show it off! It was actually the axle nut from the old cv that looked weird... didn't match the other side. The new one matches, but the new cv doesn't have a hole for a cotter key?! I am soooo confused! Nope the noises can't be felt... they are just noises... pretty loud noises, they don't affect the driveablity either?! That's what's so frustrating... I didn't hear it when he drove it in reverse at about 10-15 mph. If it did something bad, like shake, shimmy or jerk we could probably isolate the origin... nothing... smooth normal driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 n/m didn't see the second page lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauregaardhooligan Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Take that axle without the cotterpin hole back! It's either the wrong one, or was ground off past the hole after someone bunged up the end taking it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 Take that axle without the cotterpin hole back! It's either the wrong one, or was ground off past the hole after someone bunged up the end taking it out. It fit in perfect and is working. Tim thinks they may have replaced the shaft and never drilled the hole... not uncommon these days... workmanship lately has a lot to be desired Next step is taking it to a garage... I'll have him double check the axle and find out what else he needs to fix this thing... enough back yard mechanics on this problem... I could replace parts forever. I have a headache! Got Tylenol? Around the size of a hockey puck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 i saw your brat in your photo album, what a great looking car! make sure the E-brake cable is properly free of the new axle you put in or else it could half-activate the caliper and cause that noise on the turn... the clanging is weird. does it do it when the car is still and in neutral, or when moving, or turning, stopping, etc? can you feel the clang or just hear it? jack up the front end again (block the rear wheels) and test the steering.. you might turn it on and put it in gear while jacked up but be very careful, stay out from under it and make sure the jacks and chocks are very secure. make sure your lugnuts are all properly tight (i missed that once ) you mentioned an odd hub on one side? that might haev something to do with it. check the cone washer and the curved washer under the axle nut. the curved washer should be marked OUT on one side. if it's not marked i think the concave side goes toward the cone washer. if the cone and curved washer are worn, change them with new ones. got enough grease in your bearings? good luck! Ahhh... there were only flat washers on the axle... It has been replaced prior to me owning it... I will tell the mechanic to look into the e-brake and the cone and curved washers. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 Well, my tranny ate itself today... my headache is gone Least now I know what it is! Now the hunt is on for a tranny. Thanks for your help!!! Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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