'04 Forester...auto or manual?

[Kind Karma]

Which is better for the snow and mountains?

 

peace.

[subeman90]

I have a stick and love it. If you can drive the stick then get the stick.

 

Matt

[spanky_pete]

Are you looking at the Turbo or NA version? That makes a big difference too.

 

I have a '02 5spd WRX and an '04 AT WRX. The cockpit configuration is a bit different in the Foresters, but my auto car is much more comfortable to drive than the stick. In the case of the WRXs the Autos get the more advanced AWD system too. Don't know about Foresters.

 

Drive both see which one feels better to you. Both will do you very well in adverse weather.

[powderhound]

Absolutely get the manual for the mountains and the snow and the lovely combination of both. It's nice to be able to hold your gears on hills and to create instant torque in the snow.

[MorganM]

5MT4LIFE!

 

Get the 5 speed for sure

[mtsmiths]

I've lived in snow country for far too many years, And have driven Subarus for most of them. I'm firmly in the automatic camp when it comes to snow driving. I've had five speeds, and the AT-AWD system beats a manual if your intent is to have a safe reliable get thru anything car.

 

If you want to spin donuts and throw roostertails in the powder, I agree go with the manual it's loads of fun. If you want to get up the icy hills and stay out of the borrow ditches with a minumum of fuss get an automatic. It takes a skillfull foot on the clutch to equal a torque converter in avoiding wheel slip. Shift into first or second and you're locked into a 50-50 power distribution.

 

If I stopped in our driveway in either of our 5-spds in deep snow and or ice I would have to back down and start from the bottom. With the AT-AWD you just drive right on out from wherever you stop. I've also found much less tendancy to slide out. With the auto, I'm quite comfortable at 65 mph on a snow road, plowed or fresh fall.

 

We sold both our 5-speeds and bought autos, solely based on winter driving, and in NW Montana we have WINTER driving, not goofing in a two inch funfall.

[powderhound]

Mtsmiths-

If you're going 65 on snowpacked roads and begin to slide do you want to HOPE your automatic will shift or put in 4th and KNOW you will have the torque to bring the tail around? I guess it depends on how you deal with high speed slides...you can either apply the brakes or correct under power. BTW I've lived in Bozeman and Big Sky with an auto all-trac Camry and a manual Subaru...I'll take the manual any day. I've made the drive from bozeman to targhee more times than I can count in unplowed snow that constantly hits the fronts spoiler and flys onto the windshield...way more control with 5MT. As for your two inch comment--we have a little lake here called Superior that puts down 250 plus inches a year...basically in two months Jan and Feb. I happen to know for a fact that's more than Whitefish gets. Hell it rains until till you're half way up to Big Mountain.

[rweddy]

Absolutely get the manual for the mountains and the snow and the lovely combination of both. It's nice to be able to hold your gears on hills and to create instant torque in the snow.

I could not agree more.

err I just did.

 

It is funny here in the US the over use of Automatics.

 

You could not give away an auto in Europe or Australia.

 

They think we use them because we are too lazy, and want to have a free hand to eat our fast food!!

 

I think that if you can drive a stick, get a stick, you will be happier in the long run, and be able to control you vehicle much better than any auto will.

[mtsmiths]

"As for your two inch comment--we have a little lake here called Superior that puts down 250 plus inches a year...basically in two months Jan and Feb. I happen to know for a fact that's more than Whitefish gets. Hell it rains until till you're half way up to Big Mountain."

 

I've read my post a couple of times and can't seem to find the 2" reference you quote. My point is that with an auto you have less chance of getting into the slide to begin with. Most folks that get stuck do so because they are in too low a grear, and giving the car too much gas. The Subie AWD auto reduces the chance of initial spin-out. For the average driver it's a lot easier for them to get moving in snow or ice with an auto, and less chance they will lose it on a curve.

 

I've driven our Legacy from St. Regis to Hwy 93 at Elmo in over a foot of unplowed snow, with as you put it the air dam blowing the snow over the roof. The car drove like it was on rails at sixty in the straights, and handled the curves at a reasonable spped as well.

 

As for Big Mountain, you must have been there in a late spring snow. The valley/montaine snow line is on the Whitefish grade about six miles south of town. Our house is at the base of the mountain, and an average overnight fall is a foot or more.

 

The 5-speeds could make it if we did a burn-out from the garage (the stud grooves are still in the concrete floor). With the AWD we just put it in low or 2nd and drive on out.

 

I've owned WELL over a hundred cars in my life, and most of them have been sticks, but for getting around in snow, give me an auto every time.

[cookie]

I used to be a great believer in manual transmissions until I had a few late model automatics. My CJ7 with a rare Turbo 400 automatic beat the pants off my CJ5 manual in traction on any loose or wet surface. I know part of this is the torque converter's 40 to one launch and the easy controlability. Towing a sailboat out of a slimey boat launch my S10 Chevy five speed had to be driven like Mario Andretti. I stopped even putting the 7 in 4wd because it just drove out with no drama.

For me the real choice is what I am going to use it for. For city driving in SF you can't beat an automatic. For stop and start commuting an auto is great.

Right now I am driving a BMW M Roadster with a five speed manual and a five speed Forester.

I have a short commute, only a tiny bit of snow, and little stop and go traffic. These are good choices for my curent life, but last month when I was consider a job with a 100 mile heavy traffic commute I was looking at automatics.

Buy what you enjoy driving, it is your life.

[MG McAnick]

mtsmiths is right about the control of the LATE model Subaru automatics. They just can't be beaten for getting around in the snow. No way I'd drive 60 in a foot of snow in ANY vehicle though.

[powderhound]

Ha! We laugh at this don't we Mtsmiths? I couldn't stand people driving 35 mph all the way down 191, forcing me to pass them down the few straits...hey if you can't see the lines it must be a passing zone. I always reasoned if I passed one of the two cops on 191 (both in ford exploders) there was no way they could catch me. Live in Montana...you'll learn to do 60 in the snow...and if it's a straight shot 100 isn't out of the question.

[subeman90]

I would rather drive 60 in fresh snow than 35 in the "ruts" anyday....as long as you know where the road is....

 

I'm sure many of our Canadian friends are used to this too!

 

Matt

[mtsmiths]

but in fresh powder 60 is an easy controllable speed (at least in the 'ROO). Note, I did say "on the straights", I slowed down to a saner velocity in the curves.

 

I know the road like the back of my hand, and could anticipate the upcoming curves long before arriving in the chute with too much speed. There was NO other traffic, it was about 03:00. It had been snowing fresh powder for at least an hour since the last car had been down the road (and at that there was only one set of tracks, St Regis to Paridise).

 

With the lights on low beam and the powder being deflected by the compressed air. the snow wave was about two feet in front of the car at speed, when I slowed down I was actually driving in it. In the rear view mirror the rooster tail went clear out of sight. Where I was going fast I cleared a swath that looked like a plow had been by, where I slowed down I left two 'normal' tire tracks.

 

It was a hoot ... should'a been there. Sure wouldn't have driven at that speed in a company Dodge Ram or (God forbid) the Dakota or Ford Exploder.

[Wayne Boncyk]

Oh, Man! You guys are making me homesick!! I originally bought my Outback because we were then living in a rural part of eastern South Dakota and I needed a reliable commuter vehicle that would get me thru a foot of snow. I had an old Brat in NE Ohio for a while, and knew from that point on that Subes were meant for winter driving! In SD, BTW, that same foot of snow is what you drive on ALL winter. It's generally too cold to completely pack down, it's almost ALWAYS too cold to slush up, and it merely blows into different drifts on different spots on the road depending on the way the wind is blowing at any given time.

 

When I moved to Colorado, I really discovered what the Outback could do. I've driven a few other 4WD and AWD vehicles there (including our old Chrysler AWD minivan), and NOTHING was more sure-footed on snowy mountain roads!

 

Now, alas, I live in Southern California, and it takes me better than an hour to even get to snow in the winter -- and that's when we've had a good snow year.

[mtsmiths]

When you DO get snow it's Sierra Cement, as opposed to the nose candy we have up here ... comin' soon.

 

My poor Legacy is doing firewood duty now.

[DerFahrer]

For snow driving, I can offer absolutely no useful information, look at my location

 

For mountain driving, which I have done, HAS to be a stick. I can think of dozens of instances where I was happy I could leave it in a low gear while climbing a steep hill, whereas I know an automatic would shift up and then have to shift down again when it realizes there's not enough power. The only thing that sucks is you might be going through clutches a bit faster if you're not careful...

[mtsmiths]

Subieluvr, you can force shift an auto just as easily as a manual ... actually easier. You don't need your foot!

 

Seriously, I downshift to stay in a lower gear (3 is all I ever have to use, even loaded and croassing the CD), and also for compression when coming down to save the brakes.

 

But it all comes back to Kind Karma's initial query "which is best in snow". My answer remains, for safe reliable snow and ice driving, no one can out drive an good AWD auto. If you want to throw snow around and make YIPPEE! on the ice, then go for a manual.

 

For the real test, compare pulling a stuck vehicle out of a snobank with a manual, then do it again with the auto ... ditto the stuck vehicle.

[subeman90]

"For the real test, compare pulling a stuck vehicle out of a snobank with a manual, then do it again with the auto ... ditto the stuck vehicle."

 

I really do disagree but if i could I would take the challenge...

 

Maybe since our snow here is more of a "wet" kind as opposed to the nice powder in the west that might make a difference too.

 

I really need to see MT in the winter....sounds like fun!

 

Matt

[rweddy]

"For the real test, compare pulling a stuck vehicle out of a snobank with a manual, then do it again with the auto ... ditto the stuck vehicle."

 

I really do disagree but if i could I would take the challenge...

 

Maybe since our snow here is more of a "wet" kind as opposed to the nice powder in the west that might make a difference too.

 

I really need to see MT in the winter....sounds like fun!

 

Matt

I would love to take the challenge to!!!

 

This is a huge argument in the Off-roading world also, between stick or auto.

 

I can tell you that here in Colorado we get snow and my driveway is nicknamed K2.(really steep)

 

Anyway I can pull my stick Subaru’s up it with no problems because I know how to manipulate the clutch, my father-in-law has an auto ob and has issues at times pulling up it.

 

 

I think it really boils down to personal preference.

 

And in emergency situations sliding or avoiding other vehicles, I will take a stick any day over a slush box. IMO

[mtsmiths]

Oh Rweddy, it's not that I *can't* manipulate a clutch in any and all conditions. I learned to drive with straight-cut gears and no synchros, all shifts were double clutch.

 

I just perfer not to, and think that for the "average" driver an auto is best. Especially if they (as most do today) learned to drive in an auto.

 

As you stated, it all boils down to personal preference ... and skill.

[cookie]

going around since the 60s. I would not have believed how controllable an automatic could be until I owned a few.

You often buy what you have because you like it. If you like it and it works fine for you that's what counts.

In 20 years both transmissions may be history and I am not sure this will be settled then. There will still be old codgers on the porch saying my 5 speed would have climbed Mount Everest......

It would be very interesting to have a 5 speed vs manual contest next winter.

I won't be there. I moved to CA to avoid the snow except on Xmas trips.

[rweddy]

Oh Rweddy, it's not that I *can't* manipulate a clutch in any and all conditions. I learned to drive with straight-cut gears and no synchros, all shifts were double clutch.

Nice!! OK now I am impressed!!

My old CJ had a non-synchronized first gear, had to be a total stop to put in it first after double clutching! But this was never a daily driver.

 

I just perfer not to, and think that for the "average" driver an auto is best. Especially if they (as most do today) learned to drive in an auto.

That is true; I grew up driving stick Subaru’s on dirt roads in rural Colorado. I was like a rally race every day between me and my friends on who could get to school first!

 

There is also the ABS argument; a skilled driver can stop faster with the ABS turned off, than letting the computer do it. But very few people are able to do this, and then again why when you can just put your foot to the floor.

[cookie]

and Richard's comment about the rally race hit home. We had many miles of woods roads and an abandoned railroad track to the next few towns you could drive on before you had a license.

I drove Greyhound busses NY to SF for 10 years with non syncro transmissions. The way you could tell you were tired was when you got off the freeway and could not find the gears.

When Subarus first came into Maine years ago they were darn near the only resonably priced 4WD that was available.They soon earned a very good following for thier relibility and abilities in the snow.

If I lived up there now I would probably drive a Legacy with an automatic.