MailManX Posted September 24, 2004 Author Share Posted September 24, 2004 I just finished thoroughly inspecting the underside of my car up close with a flashlight. I wish I hadn't. Now I'm back to worrying that my transmission is going to disintegrate on the freeway. Here's what I found: Nothing. The transmission is tightly secured to the back of the engine. There is no gap, space or inspection hole that I could see designed into the bottom or sides of the bell housing. Therefore, that retainer gizmo could not have come out of the bell housing. And since I change my transmission oil a couple times a year, the likelyhood of that retainer sitting on the cross member for several years before deciding to fall off this time is very, very slim. On a hunch, I took the broken retainer under the car with me and compared it to the size of the drain hole. Turns out it could fit through there pretty easily, epecially since one end of the retainer is broken so that it's narrower than originally designed. I also conclude that the retainer could not have gotten from the bell housing into the transmission. My reasoning for that is that if the clip could get in, then oil could get out causing my clutch to be a slippery mess, along with the bottom of my transmission. But everything under there is clean and dry. Thereore, I conclude that the broken retainer came from INSIDE the transmission. I guess Subaru transmissions must be very unique. Maybe it's a retainer for a synchro as some have already suggested. The bottom line is that whatever used to be retained is now unrestrained, ready to thow itself into the grinding teeth of nearby gears, thus causing my poor transmission to demolish itself in writhing agony. Sorry, I got carried away. But the damn thing had better stay together on my trip this weekend. After that, I'll see about getting it fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 OK, I broke out my 1991 Legacy FSM and looked in section 3, the trannsmission section. I scanned a few pages to show you the syncro springs (retainers) I was talking about. They may not look exactly like what came out of the tranny, but then it probably didn't come out the way it was suppose to and got bent and broken. Some here are the scans. http://corkysrocks.net/springs1.jpg http://corkysrocks.net/springs2.jpg http://corkysrocks.net/springs3.jpg Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 OK, I broke out my 1991 Legacy FSM and looked in section 3, the trannsmission section. I scanned a few pages to show you the syncro springs (retainers) I was talking about. They may not look exactly like what came out of the tranny, but then it probably didn't come out the way it was suppose to and got bent and broken. Some here are the scans. http://corkysrocks.net/springs1.jpg http://corkysrocks.net/springs2.jpg http://corkysrocks.net/springs3.jpg Hope this helps. This is the first thing i thought of when I saw the picture. What happens when this spring comes out? Hopefully nothing. But they do hold the "shifting insert" into place. If the "shifting inserts" fall out, then there will be one or two gears that won't stay in gear. Also possible crunchy shifting. There is no way your transmission will lock up at 80mph. I take that back. If a "shifting insert" falls out and jams between two gears, things can get interesting. It will probably break teeth off of gears. In my experience, when a transmission falls apart internally, the parts ususally make it to the bottom and stay there, without any drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Been following this post with curious ignorance and I must say... damn you guys are good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 That clip is not the release bearing clip. I will try to verify tomorrow what it is called. PM me just in case I forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MailManX Posted September 24, 2004 Author Share Posted September 24, 2004 That clip is not the release bearing clip. I will try to verify tomorrow what it is called. PM me just in case I forget.I agree it's not the release bearing clip since it was in the transmission. However, it also does not appear to be any of the clips posted by Dr. RX. The bends that are in my clip are too specific and intentional, not the random and crazy bends caused by being sloshed around between hard moving objects. For example, the center radius of my clip is perfectly symetical and shaped like half of a sound wave unlike the full circular radius of the synchronizer springs. The tight bend at the non-broken end is actually a "square bend". That is, there are two tiny radii separated by a short straight. It reminds me of a very small version of one end of the Indianapolis Speedway. That was not an accidental bend and it doesn't match anything on the synchro springs. Thanks to snotrocket for giving me peace of mind about transmission failure. I should have know that since I watch a lot of racing of all types and transmission failures rarely if ever cause accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Clunk..... tink tink tink tink tink vrooooooooom...... oops there it went time to coast to the side of the road that's about what it would do prolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I agree it's not the release bearing clip since it was in the transmission. However, it also does not appear to be any of the clips posted by Dr. RX. The bends that are in my clip are too specific and intentional, not the random and crazy bends caused by being sloshed around between hard moving objects. For example, the center radius of my clip is perfectly symetical and shaped like half of a sound wave unlike the full circular radius of the synchronizer springs. The tight bend at the non-broken end is actually a "square bend". That is, there are two tiny radii separated by a short straight. It reminds me of a very small version of one end of the Indianapolis Speedway. That was not an accidental bend and it doesn't match anything on the synchro springs. Thanks to snotrocket for giving me peace of mind about transmission failure. I should have know that since I watch a lot of racing of all types and transmission failures rarely if ever cause accidents. I wonder, if a wire got caught between two gears, would it make a similar bend as the one at the end? And if at that same time that wire got pulled around the shaft that the gear was on, would it not make a larger curve similar to the one on the piece in the photo? This is probably not the whole spring, but just part of one that somehow came loose and entangled in the gearing causing the bends and the shortness from being cut by gears meshing with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MailManX Posted September 24, 2004 Author Share Posted September 24, 2004 I wonder, if a wire got caught between two gears, would it make a similar bend as the one at the end? And if at that same time that wire got pulled around the shaft that the gear was on, would it not make a larger curve similar to the one on the piece in the photo? This is probably not the whole spring, but just part of one that somehow came loose and entangled in the gearing causing the bends and the shortness from being cut by gears meshing with others.Very valid point. I considered that last night as I made my post about the bends. But what makes me think otherwise is the lack of scarring on the small end (my picture doesn't show that end very well - wrong angle and lighting). If that wire got crushed between the teeth of two gears, it should be mangled and the two radii should be flattened. Yet that end of the wire is pretty much flawless. The main scarring to the clip is on the larger radius and the end which is broken. Sadly, it's all just speculation. You could very well be right, or I could, or none of us. I hate it when that happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Ok, I just went through and read your old thread about the whiring noise. In that thread you say the clutch has 40,000 miles on it. In that thread the question was asked but never answered: Did you do the clutch job, or did someone else do it? Also, How long ago was the clutch job done? I'm still standing by my claim that the piece is the realease bearing clip. I just did the clutch in my Legacy a month ago and dropped one of those clips and never found it. Had to steal it off another trans in the garage. This could easily have been lying in some crevis of the car from when the clutch was done and just decided to fall out when you were down there working. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MailManX Posted September 24, 2004 Author Share Posted September 24, 2004 ...you say the clutch has 40,000 miles on it. In that thread the question was asked but never answered: Did you do the clutch job, or did someone else do it? Also, How long ago was the clutch job done? I'm still standing by my claim that the piece is the realease bearing clip. Keith The clutch job was done professionally two years ago by a mechanic that I really trust in Tacoma, WA. I wish I still had easy access to him. The piece sure looks like the release bearing clip in the link that was posted earlier. If that is the case, it sure sat around for a long time before deciding to drop in unannounced. Kind of reminds me of my mother-in-law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 The clutch job was done professionally two years ago by a mechanic that I really trust in Tacoma, WA. I wish I still had easy access to him. The piece sure looks like the release bearing clip in the link that was posted earlier. If that is the case, it sure sat around for a long time before deciding to drop in unannounced. Kind of reminds me of my mother-in-law... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 hey wierder things have happened to me before like dropping washers and bolts onto the crossmember and the car driving for a long ways on some bumpy stuff too and when it was time to pull the motor for replacement of the headgaskets and clutch we found the stuff laying right there so grease does have a tendancy to hold onto stuff like that for some odd reason for long periods of time and to just find it later on or to find it in say a oil drain pan after draining oil or gearlube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 hey wierder things have happened to me before like dropping washers and bolts onto the crossmember and the car driving for a long ways on some bumpy stuff too and when it was time to pull the motor for replacement of the headgaskets and clutch we found the stuff laying right there so grease does have a tendancy to hold onto stuff like that for some odd reason for long periods of time and to just find it later on or to find it in say a oil drain pan after draining oil or gearlube Same thing I'm thinking. I know it sounds wierd, but the bend in the end of that just looks way to close to the bend on the end of the release bearing clip to have been formed by floating around in the trans. Have you tried bending the piece at all? If you can bend it much before it breaks then it could be something else. If it breaks then it was most likely formed that way and not bent by some thing else. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 There is a thread either in off topic or old gen discussing the "shifting inserts" coming out with the gear oil. I searched and couldn't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MailManX Posted September 25, 2004 Author Share Posted September 25, 2004 Have you tried bending the piece at all? If you can bend it much before it breaks then it could be something else. If it breaks then it was most likely formed that way and not bent by some thing else. Keith I tried bending it with my fingers, but it was too stiff for that. I could barely even make a deflection. I'm not even going to bother trying to bend it with pliers because I'm convinced that the bends in it were designed to be there. I have had some wonderful feedback here. You guys are great. I've decided to just stop worry about it and drive it till it breaks. I'm fortunate to have a pickup that I can use as backup transportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I'm surprised it wasn't stuck on the magnetic plug if it was inside the tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MailManX Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 I'm surprised it wasn't stuck on the magnetic plug if it was inside the tranny. It may have been, but I was lying on my back under that car and the plug got away from me as the oil started to rush out. The plug bounced around in the pan a couple times as I was worrying about my really hot fingers! Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doodlegoat Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Same thing I'm thinking. I know it sounds wierd, but the bend in the end of that just looks way to close to the bend on the end of the release bearing clip to have been formed by floating around in the trans. Here's the two of them scaled to something close to each other and rotated to about the same azimuth. At first I thought the mystery part looked shorter (in relation to the wire length) than the RBC, but now I can't tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSisters Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Looks like doodlegoat has a pretty close match. I'm still trying to figure out how the tape measure got in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MailManX Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 Looks like doodlegoat has a pretty close match. I'm still trying to figure out how the tape measure got in there. I'm impressed with the doodler's resourcefulness. Sure looks like the same clip to me. As for the tape measure, it was in my transmission, too. Seems to be working better without it, although my car's auto-retract mechanism doesn't work any more. It's a trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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