The 84 turbo and emissions

[Mr. Carb]

Well, the turbo drives real nice, I'm really happy with it, But, doesn't pass emissions. First attempt actually overheated it. Not quite, but enough to open the pressure release on the radiator. The emissions person did it and didn't pay attention to the temp gauge. Found out it doesn't like idling for half an hour. the electric fans don't produce enough airflow when the car is idling to keep the radiator cool, if we drive, and move, it's fine. but when it's stoped, on a dyno, doing 25mph for an emissions test, it overheats. Because theres no airflow through the radiator other than the fans. Anyway, it failed on everything on emissions, hydro carbons, and co2... I'll get the results up in a bit. So Austin and I are about to do some work with the cooling issue, replacing a t-stat for one. Also doing nessary things, like replacing air filters, and what not. I'm not to knowledge able about the ea81t's and emissions. Is there a whole of alot aside from bad air filters, and vacume leaks that could cause it to fail?

[edrach]

The car should not overheat at idle. Check the airflow from the fan. It should flow in the direction of the air as if you were driving. If the electrical wires are reversed, it will blow hot air from the engine INTO the radiator causing the car to overheat. Check that first. Also, put in a low temp thermostat but keep the other one for the winter; you might want it to keep you warm. Good luck.

Well, the turbo drives real nice, I'm really happy with it, But, doesn't pass emissions. First attempt actually overheated it. Not quite, but enough to open the pressure release on the radiator. The emissions person did it and didn't pay attention to the temp gauge. Found out it doesn't like idling for half an hour. the electric fans don't produce enough airflow when the car is idling to keep the radiator cool, if we drive, and move, it's fine. but when it's stoped, on a dyno, doing 25mph for an emissions test, it overheats. Because theres no airflow through the radiator other than the fans. Anyway, it failed on everything on emissions, hydro carbons, and co2... I'll get the results up in a bit. So Austin and I are about to do some work with the cooling issue, replacing a t-stat for one. Also doing nessary things, like replacing air filters, and what not. I'm not to knowledge able about the ea81t's and emissions. Is there a whole of alot aside from bad air filters, and vacume leaks that could cause it to fail?

[Turbone]

Carl, I was never sure if it would pass or not. Seeing how I'm in a area where testing isnt required, I never worried about it. It has been sitting for a while too, may have some crud in it that needs to burn out. Not to mention its 20yrs old. And the cat is gutted. I have wanted to put a 2 row rad in it for a long time, just never had the $ for it. And as far as I know the fans are blowing the correct way. Idling for a long time was a problem, but not when it was rolling. Never had to high idle it sitting still :-\ Cant remember the last time I changed the air filter either :-\ Try fine tuning it, timing and air mixture, when you get some tune up stuff on. Hope you can get it passed, we may have to register it out here again.

[Turtle]

Well, the turbo drives real nice, I'm really happy with it, But, doesn't pass emissions.

Not sure if this is an old trick or a new one. Anyway, if you can sort the overheating issue, try going through the test with the engine heating hose (not sure of the name, bear with me) removed. The previous owner of my coupe told me it was a trick that got several of the EA era subarus through NYC emissions. I've got the Carfax on mine to prove it worked with my EA82. Good Luck.

[Mr. Carb]

Ok, results, sense it failed cruise, they didn't bother testing idle. HydroCarbons ppm was limit of 180ppm, the car did 240ppm, the CO(%) limit was 1.3, the car did a wopping 9.48. everything else was a pass. The car was fine idling, it had problems driving 25mph, on a dyno, where it doesn't move, thats when it overheated, cause they hold it at 25mph for a good 5 minutes. fans both go the right direction, both work, they just don't pull enough air to keep up, even with the heat on full blast for the test. They completed the test with the temp right at 230 degrees on the gauge. I am not confratable with them for that. Anyway, Austin claims it's suposed to have a clutch fan instead of an electric one that moves more air. Looks like the water pump at one time had a clutch fan on it. The car up to that point had no overheating problems. Anyway, I've got some fuel injector cleaning stuff, for the gas, I'm going to do an oil flush and change as well. Getting a new air filter too, the other one looked pretty nasty lol, no offence Rob. Had a bunch of bird feathers and grass stuck in it. But I'm pretty confident We'll get this thing to pass, I'm just trying to get imput on some of the issued I descovered all at once at the emissions place. Other than that, the car runs real well, and drives real well. Thanks for all the help everyone!

[Mr. Carb]

I understand that you wern't sure, I wasn't expecting it to pass right away anyway. I tested it so I could get an idea of what I had to do to get it to pass. I'm a little mad at the emissions place for overheating it though. I don't understand why they dyno that car, but didn't dyno the brat. same year, same car... diffrent body and it's a turbo. I'm wondering if automatic transmissions make the diffrence.

 

Carl, I was never sure if it would pass or not. Seeing how I'm in a area where testing isnt required, I never worried about it. It has been sitting for a while too, may have some crud in it that needs to burn out. Not to mention its 20yrs old. And the cat is gutted. I have wanted to put a 2 row rad in it for a long time, just never had the $ for it. And as far as I know the fans are blowing the correct way. Idling for a long time was a problem, but not when it was rolling. Never had to high idle it sitting still :-\ Cant remember the last time I changed the air filter either :-\ Try fine tuning it, timing and air mixture, when you get some tune up stuff on. Hope you can get it passed, we may have to register it out here again.

[Turbone]

I removed the clutch fan a long time ago, wanted to give it a little more HP. As for the air filter, thats probably from the last RallyX at Hood River (cant remember getting a bird tho Maybe if you try a different testing facility next time?

Another thing is, I would rather have it run rich, but you may have to lean it out a little to get the numbers down.

You may want to take the plenum off and give a good cleaning inside, theres oil in it from the turbo. Dont worry, thats normal. Thats why all the WRX and STI guys have the oil catch can in the system. Go to a Sooby car show sometime and you will see what I mean.

Its kind of wierd seeing my old car in someone elses sig

[rallyruss]

the gutted cat will most definately be a problem with passing emissions.

I am not too familiar with the ea81T but I know the ea82T has both electric and clutch fans. they should also have a fan at the smog check place to help with this here in CA its required to help simulate road conditions.

check the radiator for the fin condition. lots of times they rot away and dont cool well.

 

do NOT put a colder range T stat in before testing. you are shooting yourself in the foot by doing that. it will make the car run richer than normal and possibly cause you to fail again.

 

I would suggest checking the 02 function before retesting it as well. I and others have posted some good info recently on 02s. might be worth looking at.

 

good luck with the testing.

[carfreak85]

Heres what I do when I get a new car and need to test it:

 

Replace/ change all tune up parts (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, oil/filter, air filter, fuel filter) as well as a radiator flush, change trans and rear diff fluid and put in known good gas. For my turbo wagon, I just had it tested and if passed with no problems, so I did't have to fool around with it too much. I would replace all the under hood hoses to make sure you don't have a vacuum leak. Get a cat for that sucker! If the systems interchange, I can let you borrow the one off my wagon for testing. I'll be back in town this weekend or next so if you still have my number, you can come over and check out my wagon.

[Myxalplyx]

And the cat is gutted.

There you have it. Also, like RallyRuss says, I'd check the O2 sensor. As a matter of fact, I'd just replace it and get a new cat converter on there. Money pending, just do your basic tune up also to eliminate other possibilites. Spark plugs, disty, rotor, air filter, etc. Before testing the car, run it over 50mph for at least a minute. I bet after this, you'd pass with flying colors. Good luck!

[edrach]

The clogged air filter is a must to replace. This will definitely cause you trouble. Where did you get the test done? Did you get it done at the 6th Avenue South place? Get some starting ether to spray around the engine compartment looking for vacuum leaks....no sense replacing hoses that aren't leaking. The car should not have run for 5 minutes in cruise; the test runs in cruise first to warm up the catalytic converter, but as soon as it gets a pass reading, it will switch to the idle reading. The idle reading is normally the more difficult one to pass. When they test, stress that it's a 4WD drive (as a matter of fact I'd consider leaving it in 4WD for the short time of the test...that way they have to run it off the dyno). Take it down to the 6th Ave. South place and talk to Warren (Austin knows who I mean) and show him the test and ask him what you should look for to get the CO down. He doesn't charge for "advice." Then take his advice and bring it back to him to have him tweak it in; if he can't bring it into specification, there's no charge. 240ppm HC at cruise doesn't sound impossible to bring into spec, but the CO may be nasty. Work with Warren and pay him his $40 plus tax to get through; trust me it will be the least expensive way to get it through emissions testing. Also, before you spend too much time and money...do the tune-up....plugs, disty cap and rotor and so forth....you'll have to do it eventually; the clogged air filter is a definite must to replace. Also, consider changing the PCV and cleaning the EGR valve; a car sitting that long probably needs both.

[Adam N.D.J.]

OHkay, since the cat is gone, that is going to be one of your biggest problems. Your prolly going to need one to get it to pass! You could play around with the injection, and vacume hoses, but by the time you get it down to passing levels it's gong to run so bad it'll fall all over it's self during the test. So the cat is the better way to go, and can only be temporary.

Also, is the radiator in there the factory? Or has it been replaced? If it hasn't, then do that, 20 years tends to cause a lot of build up in the rad, and the EA81 rad is very efficient one, I had the stock radiator in my Brat supporting the 2.7L for quite a while with no problems. And when I first got my Turbo, it would over heat bad, till I replaced the rad, you can still get new units for em.

Good to see that car made it to someone that will take care of her.

[rubuild]

First my 2 cents, then a funny story on cooling fans. Your oxygen sensor reads the temp. off the cat. with no cat it reads cold and tells the comp. to run full rich. It will never pass without a cat. High HC can be the result of everything out of adjustment trying to compensate for the rich mixture. Ok a funny story about cooling fans. This problem stumped a few very good diagnostic techs for a few days. This was on a renault, not a Subaru, renault is the only car in the world you could do this to. We had R & Rd the engine for a clutch job, everything went according to plan. Except on the test drive on the highway it would overheat. Would not overheat idleing or running 4000 rpm standing still for 30 minutes straight. So we are standing in front of this car in deep concentration when the cooling fan cycled on, and all 4 of us at the same time said, how come our shop coats are blowing in the breeze of the fan. Turns out renault is about the only car you can cross the cooling fan wires (2 males connectors on the harness side and 2 female off the fan, instead of 1 male and 1 female) and the fan runs backwards. (Lucas electrical system) highway speeds were just blowing the hot air back thru the radiator. We promised each other we would never mention this to anyone but I just couldn't resist.

Kerry

Roo-Builders

[NorthWet]

... and the fan runs backwards. (Lucas electrical system) highway speeds were just blowing the hot air back thru the radiator.

LUCAS! Prince of Darkness!!!

 

I used to own (and fix) a '58 Triumph. I know all about Lucas electricals!

[edrach]

Easy to do on the old Subes since almost everyone has messed with the connector on the fan or hardwired it. I won't mention whose car had this problem from the Board. Reversing the leads is just too easy. It was a chuckle for us also since the car would just overheat when driving down the road.

This was on a renault, not a Subaru, renault is the only car in the world you could do this to. Roo-Builders

[Turbone]

Alright, Carl I think I have another downpipe cat for it (ungutted) and its for a EA82T. Altho it doesnt have the resonater cat either. If you can find one up there go for it, if it will save you a trip down here.

The rad was replaced a while ago, but it was with another used one. It really needs a 2 row in it. I removed the clutch fan on my 86 T-Wagon and put a electric on it also, and it doesnt overheat at all. I think the characteristics of older Soobs vary from car to car, they all act and behave different.

As for taking care of it, I kind of resent that Adam. I have had the car for almost 5 yrs and have made, what I think, are improvements to it. Maybe I'm taking this wrong, maybe not. Unfortunatly it was purchased by somebody that lives in the city and needs to pass emissions.

But the car runs great except for the heating issue. It did really well at 2 recent RallyX's, plus the trip down there and back.

[rallyruss]

First my 2 cents, Your oxygen sensor reads the temp. off the cat. with no cat it reads cold and tells the comp. to run full rich. It will never pass without a cat. High HC can be the result of everything out of adjustment trying to compensate for the rich mixture.

:-\ ok this is only ever so slightly true. 02s do NOT read temp. they read 02 thus the name 02 sensor. they do require heat to operate. they will work just fine with out the cat. the primary 02 is before the cat anyway so it does not see the heat from the cat.

 

Alright, Carl I think I have another downpipe cat for it (ungutted) and its for a EA82T. Altho it doesnt have the resonater cat either. If you can find one up there go for it, if it will save you a trip down here

if this is the case it will most likely fail with only one of the 2 factory cats installed. the first is an oxidzing cat and the second is a reducing cat not a resinator cat. I would suggest installing a good 3 way cat that will replace both of the older seperate cats. I dont know how it works up there but here its always the sellers responsibility to somg a car before sale.

[NorthWet]

...if this is the case it will most likely fail with only one of the 2 factory cats installed. the first is an oxidzing cat and the second is a reducing cat not a resinator cat. I would suggest installing a good 3 way cat that will replace both of the older seperate cats...

Rallyruss, first off I agree that straightening out the cat situation (either install both cats or one good 3-way) is the best way to go. But I do have a question regarding red/ox cat duties. I had rump roast-u-me-d that the oxidation cat was responsible for oxidizing the HC and CO, and that the reduction cat was responsible for reducing NOx. IF this is accurate (HS Chem and intro of Lambda systems was a LONG time ago! ), wouldn't the oxidation cat be the one of importance to this situation? Am I confused? (again??l)

 

IMHO, still should be done right, if practical.

[rallyruss]

Rallyruss, first off I agree that straightening out the cat situation (either install both cats or one good 3-way) is the best way to go. But I do have a question regarding red/ox cat duties. I had rump roast-u-me-d that the oxidation cat was responsible for oxidizing the HC and CO, and that the reduction cat was responsible for reducing NOx. IF this is accurate (HS Chem and intro of Lambda systems was a LONG time ago! ), wouldn't the oxidation cat be the one of importance to this situation? Am I confused? (again??l)

 

IMHO, still should be done right, if practical.

I beleve you are correct about the cats. I know here that they do test for NOX when they do the simulated diving mode tests. thats what I am going off of. Im not too familiar with the testing procedures elsewhere.

[Mr. Carb]

Any chance you still have the clutch fan and fan shroud?

 

 

I removed the clutch fan a long time ago, wanted to give it a little more HP. As for the air filter, thats probably from the last RallyX at Hood River (cant remember getting a bird tho Maybe if you try a different testing facility next time?

Another thing is, I would rather have it run rich, but you may have to lean it out a little to get the numbers down.

You may want to take the plenum off and give a good cleaning inside, theres oil in it from the turbo. Dont worry, thats normal. Thats why all the WRX and STI guys have the oil catch can in the system. Go to a Sooby car show sometime and you will see what I mean.

Its kind of wierd seeing my old car in someone elses sig

[Mr. Carb]

The car is great, I think the cat thing has alot to do with it now that I hear what it does to O2 sensors, explains everything if thats really the case, So I think I better throw a cat in it for the test.

 

Alright, Carl I think I have another downpipe cat for it (ungutted) and its for a EA82T. Altho it doesnt have the resonater cat either. If you can find one up there go for it, if it will save you a trip down here.

The rad was replaced a while ago, but it was with another used one. It really needs a 2 row in it. I removed the clutch fan on my 86 T-Wagon and put a electric on it also, and it doesnt overheat at all. I think the characteristics of older Soobs vary from car to car, they all act and behave different.

As for taking care of it, I kind of resent that Adam. I have had the car for almost 5 yrs and have made, what I think, are improvements to it. Maybe I'm taking this wrong, maybe not. Unfortunatly it was purchased by somebody that lives in the city and needs to pass emissions.

But the car runs great except for the heating issue. It did really well at 2 recent RallyX's, plus the trip down there and back.

[Mr. Carb]

Thanks everyone for the help, I am replacing the air filter, doing oil changes, flush, spark plug wires look fairly new, Rob? at anyrate, it's not having misfireing issues, so spark plugs arn't really the issue. But I'm going to stick a cat in, Austin has a downpipe for an ea82 turbo... so we'll stick it on just for the emission testing. Thanks everyone for the imput. I want to work on putting normal fans back in for now, to see if it helps, either way it's going to take HP from the engine either through the alternator or the fan directly on it, So I don't see much of a diffrence.

[Turbone]

I think I have it, somewhere. Not sure about the shroud tho. But I will look. The wires are only about a year old.

When a car is privately sold in Wa. state, it is sold "As Is". Even the used car lots are like that, and say so on the window unless otherwise stated.

[carfreak85]

The shroud for the mechanical fan is basically useless. It is about half an inch deep for the radiator and is only on top of the fan. I wouldn't sweat it.

[Mr. Carb]

Yep, I know, thats why If you want money for the clutch fan, I'll fork it over.

 

 

 

I think I have it, somewhere. Not sure about the shroud tho. But I will look. The wires are only about a year old.

When a car is privately sold in Wa. state, it is sold "As Is". Even the used car lots are like that, and say so on the window unless otherwise stated.